13:01:51 <bcotton> #startmeeting FPgM office hours
13:01:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun  3 13:01:51 2020 UTC.
13:01:51 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:01:51 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:01:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:01:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fpgm_office_hours'
13:01:52 <bcotton> #info This is an open floor meeting to discuss anything program management related (elections, changes, schedule, etc)
13:03:09 <davdunc> .hello2
13:03:10 <zodbot> davdunc: davdunc 'David Duncan' <davdunc@amazon.com>
13:03:19 <bcotton> #topic Announcements
13:03:30 <bcotton> #info The GNOME Community Engagement Challenge is accepting applications through 1 July: https://www.gnome.org/challenge/
13:03:31 <bcotton> #info The Fedora Social Hour is tomorrow: https://riot.im/app/#/room/#fedora-social-hour:matrix.org
13:03:33 <bcotton> #info Fedora 32 elections voting is open through 23:59 UTC on 11 June: https://elections.fedoraproject.org
13:03:34 <bcotton> #info Latest datacenter move update: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/L3MAYSUM52C4G6PFVDZ6SEFKHCHGUUZS/
13:03:36 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
13:03:38 <bcotton> hello, davdunc!
13:04:00 <davdunc> Hi bcotton
13:04:24 <davdunc> I don't have any new business at this point, but I wanted to come and  be a part of the meeting.
13:05:10 <davdunc> I'm here though.
13:05:43 <bcotton> nice to have you here
13:05:48 <davdunc> :D
13:05:51 * bcotton pours an extra cup of coffee
13:10:40 <bcotton> what's good these days, david?
13:11:39 <davdunc> bcotton: my days are filled working on the managed openshift on aws.
13:11:52 <davdunc> I am pretty excited about that.
13:12:21 <bcotton> that's good. always helps to be excited about your job
13:12:36 <davdunc> and I just accepted a slot to speak at devconf on my first year of packaging for fedora.
13:12:56 <bcotton> sure beats sitting down at your desk in the morning and saying "okay, what BS happened overnight?" before you unlock your computer :-)
13:13:01 <bcotton> awesome! what's the talk?
13:13:06 <davdunc> exactly.
13:13:09 <bcotton> oh, i guess you said that, didn't you
13:13:12 * bcotton drinks more coffee
13:13:14 <davdunc> haha.
13:13:24 <davdunc> it's early on this side yet.
13:13:43 <bcotton> i'm looking forward to watching it. i need to get started on my talks so that i'm not rushing at the end
13:13:59 <davdunc> right! I always hate rushing to the finish.
13:15:28 <bcotton> at devconf.cz 2019, i had two talks to give. one of which i did my first pratice run in the hotel after I arrived, the day before my talk. the other one, i put the slides together the day before. they went well, but i hated it
13:15:30 <davdunc> on a personal note, i am here on the north side of Austin, TX and Lake Travis is warm and is giving me some great kayaking time now that they have relaxed the restrictions.
13:16:09 <bcotton> oh i bet! i was hiking along a riverside trail here in Lafayette yesterday and thinking "wow, it's hot. today would be a good day for being on the water"
13:16:38 <davdunc> right. it's a hazard of the work we have chosen to do. long travel times and lots of work that needs to be done that is important to us.
13:17:08 <davdunc> oh  a hike sounds awesome.
13:18:10 <davdunc> one of the other things that has been really exiting about this summer is that we have a new bird that is coming to our house.  The summer tanager.
13:18:14 <bcotton> i think i may take my next company holiday and just wander a state park all day
13:18:20 <bcotton> oh, are you a birder?
13:18:42 <davdunc> not hardcore birder, but very interested in knowing my neighbors, so to speak.
13:19:13 <davdunc> the come by the house, take a little birdseed and then clean the eaves of wasp larvae.
13:19:25 <davdunc> they* come by the house...
13:20:08 <bcotton> ooh, that's an excellent benefit
13:20:13 <davdunc> indeed!
13:20:23 <davdunc> better than chemicals, evan.
13:20:26 <davdunc> even*
13:20:36 <bcotton> i've been thinking i need to get some bird feeders up in my new house. i have some nice windows to watch them from
13:20:53 <bcotton> right now, i just watch the squirrels who play in the hollow part of the tree, which is also nice
13:21:24 <davdunc> that sounds awesome all by itself.
13:23:02 <davdunc> so back to Fedora.
13:23:15 <davdunc> How can I help you with program management?
13:23:37 <bcotton> that's a great question
13:23:46 <davdunc> :)
13:24:12 <bcotton> the easy answer is "give me more work" by submtiting change proposals, commblog articles, etc
13:25:18 <bcotton> i have a list of things to do on my taiga board (https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/bcotton-fpgm-working-board/kanban) but i'm not sure there's a lot I could hand out to other people
13:25:57 <bcotton> although it's interesting that you ask this because i was just talking to my manager on monday about PTO coverage for when i take week-or-more time off
13:26:10 <davdunc> excellent. I can understand how the PM work itself is not specifically transferrable
13:26:46 <bcotton> are there specific things you'd like to help with (particularly "hey, this isn't being done well right now!")
13:26:57 <bcotton> or is it more of a "i want to be helpful so tell me how to help"
13:27:51 <davdunc> i was curious about what you can delegate and how you identify tasks that are "just do it" vs. building a project template.
13:28:14 <bcotton> i think that's one of the things i need to carve out and Just Do at some point
13:28:50 <bcotton> for the most part, i don't really do project template type stuff. that tends to be handled by individual teams doing the work, but i do "consult" for them when asked
13:29:08 <bcotton> but one of the first things I wanted to do when i started and still haven't done is making some guidance for teams on that kind of stuff
13:29:22 <bcotton> both in terms of governance and in execution
13:30:43 <davdunc> interesting. Yes. It is always good to have guidelines.
13:31:27 <bcotton> basically "What did i wish i had when i was leading the docs team years ago?" :-)
13:31:30 <davdunc> we are all capable of working "our own way", but it is important that we do not clobber efforts in independence.
13:32:17 <bcotton> exactly. something that's like "you can do it however you want, but if you don't know how you want to do it, try this"
13:32:20 <davdunc> I prefer a bootstrap model to any sort of "survival of the fittest"
13:33:03 <davdunc> the former is how you grow talent, the latter is sometimes faster, but reduces your community.
13:34:38 <davdunc> yes. The team will grow their own methods with good guidelines.
13:34:44 <bcotton> yeah, and we need to, as a project, do a better job of growing our talent
13:36:28 <davdunc> it's not a simple task.
13:38:14 <davdunc> You have a full task list. :D
13:39:41 <bcotton> i'm really bad at accepting new work :-)
13:39:53 <bcotton> "oh sure, i'll do that!" will be on my tombstone
13:40:37 <davdunc> yep. It's a complication of loving what you do.
13:40:51 <davdunc> you see the urgency in many different goals.
13:42:19 <bcotton> yep. if only i didn't also see the importance of work/life balance, i might get more of it done :p
13:43:31 <davdunc> That's admirable. I was brought up in a household where the emphasis was on building for retirement and working without stop until the work was done.
13:44:04 <davdunc> That didn't work out anywhere like they told me  itwould in my experience.
13:45:06 <davdunc> so keep the balance because these are the best days to enjoy.
13:47:57 <bcotton> heh, yeah. and my kids are at an age where they're fun to do stuff with and they still want to spend time with me, so i figure i should make the most of that while i can
13:48:33 <davdunc> oh yea! keep close to them while they are still snuggling.
13:53:32 <davdunc> okay. Thanks for sharing. I'll leave you to the rest of your day. Thanks for sharing and... I voted while we were in discussion. :D
13:54:48 <bcotton> hooray!
13:54:52 <bcotton> thanks for the chat
13:58:08 <bcotton> #endmeeting