21:02:54 #startmeeting FPgM office hours 21:02:54 Meeting started Wed Feb 24 21:02:54 2021 UTC. 21:02:54 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 21:02:54 The chair is bcotton_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:02:54 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 21:02:54 The meeting name has been set to 'fpgm_office_hours' 21:02:56 #info This is an open floor meeting to discuss anything program management related (elections, changes, schedule, etc) 21:03:12 oh no! i'm late starting the first ever Wednesday afternoon* office hours 21:03:18 #topic Announcements 21:03:25 #info The Fedora Social Hour is tomorrow: https://element.io/app/#/room/#fedora-social-hour:matrix.org 21:03:27 #help GSoC project proposals and mentor volunteers are due 28 Feb: https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/call-for-projects-and-mentors-gsoc-2021/ 21:03:34 #info The 100% change complete deadline has passed. All changes should be complete (trackers in ON_QA state in Bugzilla) 21:03:35 #info The Beta freeze is underway. 21:03:37 #info The early target for the Fedora 34 Beta release is 16 March. 21:03:39 #topic Open floor 21:17:52 hi bcotton_ 21:18:07 hello jibec! it's getting late there, no? 21:18:24 for "work hours": yes! 21:18:29 for contribution, no, it's usual ! 21:19:00 I was thinking at change process and what I do with d a r k n a o (I don't want to ping him) 21:20:07 the current milestones are designed for packages, an does not makes so much sense for non package initiatives 21:20:52 yeah, there's a bit of a gap for things that aren't really release-specific but are too short in time or scope to be Objectives 21:21:20 i was having a similar conversation with mattdm earlier today, actually 21:21:42 I think I don't know the process for objectives 21:22:03 I am sure what we do does fit in a larger plan, which is basically in my head 21:22:33 the beauty of open source is as long as it is good, people let me do it and sometimes helps a lot <3 21:22:44 :-D 21:23:37 so if there is a larger plan that is say 12-18 months of work (or can be split into multiple 12-18 month phases), it might be worth writing them down and proposing a Fedora Objective 21:24:03 then all of the smaller things could be milestones in the objective 21:25:29 well, taking the time to think at this, I would say it is too risky to engage myself on 12-18 months :p 21:25:49 i would be afraid to add too much stress on my shoulder 21:26:39 but so, you want the change process because you want to communicate the change, or is there others reasons for things to be a Change ? 21:27:08 understandable. but it wouldn't necessarily have to be all you (and in fact, it's better if it's not). you can get several people to be a part of the work 21:28:50 the change helps communication makes us to have a time goal to get the work done 21:29:04 (yeah, it's getting late :D) 21:32:13 in theory, it also helps get resources when additional work is needed (e.g. infrastructure) as it would be a higher priority than some random request. more true for objectives than changes, and not guaranteed in either case 21:36:03 kinda remind me the revamp of mindshare 21:36:13 not sure if this was a objective ? 21:38:21 misc: do you mean a few years ago when mindshare was created? or the current Community Outreach Revamp? 21:38:43 bcotton_: the current revamp 21:39:03 seems to be a large scale effort, not tied to release, kinda close to what jibec might have in mind 21:40:05 yep, and that was recently approved as an Objective 21:41:49 mhh, so I guess I need to find another example :) 21:42:24 i think it's a pretty good example :-) 21:42:48 there is CPE initiative as well 21:42:57 also, our objectives have been very engineering-heavy, so it would be nice to have another not-engineering objective 21:43:47 although ideally a CPE initiative supports a Fedora Change or Objective instead of being something on it's own. in other words, it'd be good to keep a direct tie in to the community itself 21:44:06 basically there are no right answers! 🎉🎉🎉 21:44:17 the datacenter move is what I had in mind 21:45:15 but I guess that is not a good example 21:46:41 anyway, having a process to define objectives would help me 21:46:58 I'd like to fight with people about localization inside Fedora :D 21:46:58 * bcotton_ sighs in backlog 21:47:34 I'm always impressed as a lot of what debian does is internationalized by default 21:47:43 othere distrib does it too 21:47:44 jibec: are you saying that we define objective in a subjective way :p ? 21:47:57 i have a card on my Taiga Board of Shame to improve our objectives documentation. It's all pretty loosely defined right now because we haven't done it a bunch, but that's not helpful to people who want to propose an objective 21:48:18 I like the concept of board of shame 21:48:20 yes, totally, there is a lot of subjectivity, we are pioneers 21:49:49 I guess the size of debian imply a rather huge non english native community, which help for i18n 21:50:06 I decided to stop doing todo list, not to be sad about it ^ 21:50:09 (like, for mageia, since we were french, i18n was one of the first and most active subgroup) 21:50:49 jibec++ 21:51:04 well Fedora localization work is just a troll opportunity 21:51:35 what I really care about is we should be pionneer and help the open-source community to improve in localization 21:51:50 the same way we do with many technical things 21:53:49 by starting flamewar on what editor to ship by default ? 21:54:45 by starting flamewar: how to deliver an Fedora Linux without a single line of English in it 21:55:04 if Mozilla Firefox can do it, we could do it too :D 21:55:06 :-D 21:55:16 just stop shipping fonts 21:55:30 :D 21:55:41 emoji-only 21:55:54 Wingdings 21:56:06 well, I think this would be a nice objective, remove english language from ISOs 21:56:28 but language limited people would be lost 21:57:18 Oh dang, I guess I named my dog ewagq3w4e4$$DfaZ for nothing! 21:57:54 well, I had one day to repair a windows computer with russian as a locale, it is ... interesting 21:57:58 yeah, I would struggle without English. but it would be awesome to have options for people who don't know English 21:58:59 jibec: I think you can't really remove english, since that's the original string 21:58:59 you laugh, but I am serious, we could really ship an ISO without English in it and still be a usable operating system 21:59:19 best you can do is to create a en translation that would be another language 21:59:23 (like, french) 22:00:08 well, firefox people did it, if it works for a program, it works for an operating system 22:00:18 and they did it years ago 22:00:45 they did ship a firefow where you can't display anything in english ? 22:01:26 haha 22:02:19 (cause right now, the firefox binary has english error messages ) 22:02:34 well if you don't make any errors, you won't see those :-) 22:02:38 having a fully translated OS, yeah, that's IMHO a doable goal 22:03:18 it is doable if we make translable all the packages, this is going to be a mess :D 22:04:02 oh, that 22:04:08 yeah, mandrake tried that 22:04:37 Mandrake the Magician ? 22:06:18 nan, mandrake linux 22:06:24 well friends, i need to go get started on dinner. i'll leave you two to plot the overthrow of the English language :-D 22:06:35 (who was inspire by mandrake the magician, and the company got sued) 22:06:57 did you end meeting before you left? 22:07:41 he didn't :p 22:07:44 i dit not, i was about to 22:07:49 did not, either :-) 22:07:52 #endmeeting