15:30:52 <nirik> #startmeeting Fedora Mobility SIG
15:30:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 10 15:30:52 2021 UTC.
15:30:52 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:30:52 <zodbot> The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:30:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:30:52 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_mobility_sig'
15:30:53 <nirik> #meeting_name fedora_mobility_sig
15:30:53 <nirik> #chair torbuntu pbrobinson _Yoda_
15:30:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: _Yoda_ nirik pbrobinson torbuntu
15:30:53 <nirik> #topic Init process
15:31:06 <nirik> sorry for the slight late start. Was getting coffee. :)
15:31:18 <torbuntu> An important delay for sure :)
15:32:00 <nirik> who all is around today for a meeting?
15:32:07 * torbuntu is present
15:32:18 <Marius[m]> /raise
15:32:24 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fedora-mobility/issue/8 meeting ticket
15:32:25 <torbuntu> My messages are coming through yes?
15:32:32 <nirik> yep. loud and clear
15:32:32 <Marius[m]> yo
15:32:38 <nirik> hey Marius[m]
15:32:39 <hartan[m]> /raise
15:32:41 <torbuntu> :D great, thanks.
15:32:50 <nirik> hey hartan[m] welcome
15:33:49 <nirik> so I thought we would do a remix status a fedora vanilla status and then go to the topic torbuntu had in the ticket then any other business?
15:34:17 <torbuntu> Works for me.
15:34:27 <nirik> #topic remix status
15:34:48 <nirik> I've not had much time to play around... any exciting new improvements lately?
15:34:50 * pbrobinson is here now
15:35:07 <nirik> hey pbrobinson, welcome
15:36:07 <nirik> sounds like some good strides on suspend time/battery usage...
15:36:19 <torbuntu> I can't think of any outstanding excitement in improvements. I have been poking around at a few different things though, such as switching the github scripts to using btrfs and then recently looking to disable the modem power driver in favor of using eg25-manager. But I haven't gotten too far yet on either.
15:36:44 <nirik> fair enough.
15:36:55 <pbrobinson> the problem with the eg25-manager stuff is that it's doubtful that will go upstream
15:37:15 <pbrobinson> I have started looking at the LTE modem bits, I think I should have a patch to test for upstream to get it working
15:37:23 <torbuntu> That is why I was looking into this, there is a user space driver that can be packaged separately.
15:37:24 <nirik> oh? I thought that was the thing that was going to go upstream over the modem driver thats not upstream.
15:37:33 <torbuntu> yes
15:37:38 <nirik> oh, eg25 isn't the userspace one?
15:37:41 * nirik is confused
15:37:43 <pbrobinson> I also pushed the latest ModemManager bits which may have the GPS support
15:38:13 <torbuntu> https://gitlab.com/mobian1/devices/eg25-manager
15:38:13 <pbrobinson> maybe I've confused, the megi kernel had a massive weird kernel thing
15:38:16 <nirik> I meant to test that GPS thing, but never did. ;( Updating my phone now to try it.
15:38:22 <torbuntu> This is the daemon to replace the kernel driver
15:38:38 <torbuntu> But to make it work, I have to stop the kernel one from working.
15:38:48 <nirik> ah yeah, that was the issue.
15:38:53 <nirik> well, a issue
15:38:56 <torbuntu> I did try to use this with vanilla fedora, but it didn't know where the modem was to try and manage it ;)
15:39:38 <pbrobinson> looking at that it looks like functionality that should be part of ModemManager
15:40:20 <pbrobinson> torbuntu: so I should have a patch in the next few days to find the modem using the way upstream deals with these modems, so it may then find it
15:40:30 <nirik> seems like it should work without much poking, since it's it's own armv7 os there...
15:40:59 <torbuntu> pbrobinson: Sounds good! I'll test whenever it is ready :)
15:41:04 <pbrobinson> I feel having a eg25-manager is very device specific and when the next device comes along with a different modem the work has to be done all over again
15:41:32 <pbrobinson> nirik: welcome to this stuff.... it's arm cores all the way down....
15:41:39 <nirik> yep. ;)
15:41:59 <torbuntu> Which makes me think of the Librem 5, I haven't looked much at how they manage their modem choice.
15:42:01 <pbrobinson> the newer modems actually use PCIe rather than USB to interface and are basically a PCIe endpoint
15:42:17 <nirik> Matryoshka doll of ever smaller arm socs
15:42:59 <nirik> #topic Roadmap to official spin
15:43:26 <nirik> so, my 2cents would be that we need the fedora kernel + some way to have network so you can update the thing at the very least.
15:43:34 <pbrobinson> yea, the radio control on the modem will be a Cortex-R or M series ;-)
15:44:06 <pbrobinson> nirik: yes, so that's basically what I've been looking at, also did start to dig into wifi but that's a much bigger job
15:44:06 <hartan[m]> I started looking into Fedora Remixes/Spins in general and am currently trying to tame either lorax or osbuild to generate images for the Pinephone. The end-result should be similar to what the current images are, but using somewhat "more official" tooling.
15:44:06 <hartan[m]> Some people already said they'd have interest in making a calamares config that works on smartphone-devices like the Pinephone so we can have a graphical installer.
15:44:30 <pbrobinson> hartan[m]: look at the kickstarts and ImageFactory
15:45:03 <pbrobinson> I have an initial .ks somewhere I can likely dig out
15:45:13 <hartan[m]> probinson: Yup, I have already been referred to the fedora-kickstarts repo on pagure. I'm currently trying to figure out how I'd use it to make an image.
15:45:48 <nirik> yeah, we will need a working kickstart, but that should hopefully not be too bad.
15:46:16 <pbrobinson> hartan[m]: basically "imagefactory --debug base_image --parameter generate_icicle false tdl-aarch64.xml --file-parameter install_script fedora-mobility.ks"
15:46:30 <hartan[m]> That'd be great, thanks!
15:46:55 <pbrobinson> actually s/base_image/target_image
15:47:07 <nirik> #info need vanilla kernel booting/working [x]
15:47:10 <hartan[m]> What about "livemedia-creator", is that still a thing? The Wiki isn't exactly clear on it.
15:47:29 <nirik> #info need networking working of some kind: wifi, wan, or usb [ ]
15:47:52 <pbrobinson> hartan[m]: nope, you don't want to be booting .iso images on a device like that
15:48:04 <torbuntu> Was there anything else userspace that should be added to that phosh DE group?
15:48:17 <torbuntu> I don't remember if chatty has been added to that since it got into the main repo yet.
15:48:26 <nirik> torbuntu: whats left in the copr repo besides rmegi kernel and uboot?
15:49:02 <torbuntu> I think just a few managers I was working on packaging/testing. Nothing mission critical (outside the kernel)
15:49:18 <torbuntu> mmsd and eg25-manager is mostly all.
15:49:47 <hartan[m]> What's with the custom patch for phosh?
15:49:50 <nirik> ah yes, mms. :(
15:50:11 <torbuntu> mms is coming soon to chatty :) mmsd already works, just need to plug it into Chatty as a front end.
15:50:32 <torbuntu> freenode_hartan[m]:  the patch is for making Phosh work with wlroots 0.12.0
15:50:40 <pbrobinson> wow, mms, don't remember the last time I used that
15:51:11 <torbuntu> I really wish it wasn't used here anymore in the states.
15:51:17 <torbuntu> But most group texting is done through mms and people still prefer it for media.
15:51:17 <nirik> pbrobinson: sadly, it's used all the time in the US. ;( all group messages and anything with media.
15:51:17 <torbuntu> :(
15:51:39 <torbuntu> ^
15:51:44 <nirik> pbrobinson: how would I check the modem? gnome-maps isn't finding location, but that could be something with it...
15:51:51 <Marius[m]> german providers block mms to security reasons.
15:51:53 <pbrobinson> nirik: yea, most people elsewhere use non carrier like Signal, my provider has decommissioned mms
15:52:37 <pbrobinson> nirik: good question, TBH I'll have to check when I finish digging into that patch, it should be a ttyXX interface
15:53:13 <pbrobinson> nirik: once I can test my modem locally will probably be easier as I only have a vanilla Fedora minimal on mine ATM
15:53:15 <torbuntu> If it is the same thing I saw with trying to hook up eg25-manager, it may not be able to be found...
15:53:24 <nirik> May 10 08:47:29 localhost.localdomain ModemManager[327]: <warn>  [modem0] modem couldn't be initialized: Couldn't check unlock status: QMI operation failed: GW primary session index unknown
15:53:41 <torbuntu> megi's driver may be holding it hostage...
15:53:48 <nirik> (I don't have a sim in mine, might be confusing it)
15:53:53 <nirik> that could be too.
15:54:10 <Marius[m]> no sim, no gps
15:54:25 <nirik> anyhow, torbuntu... did you want to start a wiki page or file or something for a roadmap? or do we think we know it enough from just discussing?
15:54:56 <torbuntu> Since it seems like a small list I think the discussion is probably enough for now.
15:55:35 <torbuntu> Getting a fedora kernel with networking and the Phosh environment group?
15:55:37 <pbrobinson> probably just add it as a section to the existing wiki page
15:55:38 <hartan[m]> Do you mean roadmap as in "what's not upstreamed yet"?
15:56:10 <nirik> more a 'what needs to be working before we can start making a official fedora spin'
15:56:14 <torbuntu> ^
15:56:19 <nirik> torbuntu: and a kickstart...
15:56:40 <torbuntu> ah yes, that too. So those 3 things for a Spin?
15:56:47 <nirik> we also need to put in a fedora 'change' about it and get it approved
15:57:01 <nirik> but I can't imagne that would be too hard.
15:57:02 <torbuntu> That is another thing I was wondering about yeah
15:57:21 <nirik> but it does mean we need to target some fedora release... 35, 36, whatever
15:57:53 <torbuntu> I'm not sure what a timeline looks like for getting the KS and Kernel ready.
15:58:11 <pbrobinson> I suppose step 1 is really what we need from kernel upstream, without a working phone/data it's pretty pointless
15:58:24 <torbuntu> ^
15:58:34 <nirik> yeah, with no way to use the net/update... not worth it
15:59:02 <torbuntu> Is something missing for getting the USB C port to work?
15:59:45 <nirik> not sure there. I know it did not last time I checked in fedora kernel, but it's been a long while since then
16:00:40 <pbrobinson> drivers
16:01:13 <pbrobinson> I don't believe any of the usb side of that HW IP block is upstream, there is the DP bits
16:01:32 <torbuntu> Ah, that explains that.
16:02:03 <nirik> if we could get that working that would be another option for net. :) basically IMHO any net is good...
16:02:14 <torbuntu> Exactly.
16:02:49 <nirik> arm-image-installer doesnt let you do encryption does it? (thats another thing we need in the longer roadmap... the daily driver roadmap :)
16:03:21 <hartan[m]> If we had encryption, how would you enter the passwords?
16:03:26 <Marius[m]> some distris already have this in place, but you need a working installer to implement it
16:03:48 <pbrobinson> nope, arm-image-installer doesn't do the actual install
16:03:50 <nirik> hartan[m]: on screen keyboard... ;)
16:03:59 <Marius[m]> they present an onscreendisplay when asked for the password.
16:04:09 <nirik> anyhow, sorry, thats a sidetrack. :)
16:04:19 <nirik> anything else on roadmap?
16:04:20 <Marius[m]> * they present an onscreenkeyboard when asked for the password.
16:04:20 <hartan[m]> Is the OSK squeekboard, or some custom implementation?
16:04:31 <Marius[m]> Plasma?
16:05:42 <nirik> Marius[m]: plasmas on screen keyboard/encryption? or you meant for roadmap?
16:05:59 <Marius[m]> I think, in the long term, we need plasma mobile as desktop in fedora.
16:06:00 <torbuntu> squeekboard is the osk used by Phosh.
16:06:49 <nirik> Marius[m]: well, that would be great... but I think we should focus on phosh for now and get it in a state where it's a spin... then as people package plasma mobile we can more easily add it...
16:06:59 <torbuntu> ^
16:07:01 <nirik> but I of course won't tell anyone how to spend their time. :)
16:07:10 <Marius[m]> thats why i wrote "long term" ;)
16:07:24 <nirik> if it's all packaged up we could do it at the same time as phosh... just mostly it needs the packaging work.
16:07:50 <Marius[m]> and a way to switch to it.
16:08:11 <nirik> yeah...
16:08:20 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:08:37 <torbuntu> Oh! Before I forget, for the "Official Spin" can we do an ostree image? Or is that being way too optimistic at this time?
16:09:02 <nirik> so, I had one other thing I just thought of... I was thinking I might do a talk on pinephone with fedora at nest (the next fedora conference)... would love help/feedback on it tho...
16:09:22 <nirik> torbuntu: I think we should do a normalish one first, then once thats working go to ostree.
16:09:38 <Marius[m]> As i made a talk about it for the LPD next saturday, contact me.
16:09:38 <torbuntu> I'd be more than happy to assist with feedback and help. I don't know if my schedule permits me to attend live though
16:09:40 <nirik> I agree that ostree would be a good thing, just don't want to aim too high
16:10:03 <nirik> Marius[m]: cool! prerecorded? or slides/live?
16:10:07 <torbuntu> nirik:  normal first, then ostree, works for me :)
16:10:12 <torbuntu> Makes sense yeah.
16:10:22 <Marius[m]> Prerecorded in german with slides ..
16:10:34 <nirik> ah nice.
16:10:43 <Marius[m]> just contact me later.
16:10:49 <nirik> will do. :) Thanks.
16:11:26 <nirik> Oh, another side note, we should be really close to having aarch64 flatpaks... there's just some last indexing stuff to do I think.
16:11:51 <torbuntu> Awesome! Will they be a part of the normal packaging workflow with other architectures?
16:11:53 <Marius[m]> flatpaks of what?
16:11:56 <hartan[m]> Flatpaks from the fedora registry?
16:12:35 <nirik> torbuntu: well, they will be normal for all flatpaks
16:13:07 <torbuntu> I am wondering for myself packaging applications, do I just do the `fedpkg build` as normal, or will I have to do something else to build the flatpaks?
16:13:54 <nirik> I never can find the page with all the namespaces... but basically a bunch of fedora apps are published in the fedora registry as flatpaks
16:14:02 <nirik> yes, it's differnt...
16:14:44 <nirik> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/flatpak/
16:15:38 <nirik> but they work fine on the phone... and will be somewhat needed with ostree...
16:15:40 <hartan[m]> Maybe this helps?
16:15:41 <hartan[m]> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/flatpak/concepts/#_oci_images
16:15:41 <hartan[m]> Didn't know they're OCI images now in Fedora. But that explains how they implemented the "delta"-updates.
16:15:49 <nirik> yep.
16:15:58 <torbuntu> Excellent, I mostly use flatpacks on the phone now as it is :)
16:16:33 <nirik> ok, if nothing else will close out in a minute... thanks for coming everyone.
16:16:52 <torbuntu> Thanks!
16:18:10 <nirik> #endmeeting