18:30:12 <bcotton> #startmeeting docs
18:30:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul  6 18:30:12 2022 UTC.
18:30:12 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:30:12 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:30:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:30:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
18:30:32 <bcotton> #topic Roll call
18:30:39 <pboy> .hi
18:30:43 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de>
18:30:45 <bcotton> #chair pboy darknao
18:30:45 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton darknao pboy
18:31:17 <hankuoffroad[m]> .hello hankuoffroad
18:31:18 <zodbot> hankuoffroad[m]: hankuoffroad 'None' <allegrovelo@gmail.com>
18:31:23 <py0xc3[m]> .hello py0xc3
18:31:23 <zodbot> py0xc3[m]: py0xc3 'Christopher Klooz' <py0xc3@my.mail.de>
18:31:50 <mateusrc> .hello mateusrodcosta
18:31:51 <zodbot> mateusrc: mateusrodcosta 'Mateus Rodrigues Costa' <mateusrodcosta@gmail.com>
18:33:07 <darknao> .hi
18:33:08 <zodbot> darknao: darknao 'Francois Andrieu' <darknao@drkn.ninja>
18:33:35 <py0xc3[m]> I suggest to postpone the survey issues until Anushka has recovered?
18:33:51 <hankuoffroad[m]> No prob.
18:34:24 <bcotton> okay, let's get started
18:34:40 <bcotton> #topic Agenda
18:34:44 <bcotton> #info Announcements
18:34:49 <bcotton> #info Review action items
18:35:11 <bcotton> .... so i've been away for the better part of a few weeks, what else should be on today's agenda?
18:35:33 <py0xc3[m]> The old Docs are one
18:36:15 <pboy> e had some discussion about front page design and have to made some decisions
18:36:18 <py0xc3[m]> On one hand, getting rid of the old. On the other hand, where to provide the PDFs
18:36:24 <mateusrc> I believe there was going to be some discussion on whether to move the old docs and start from there or do from scratch
18:37:07 <pboy> We have a suggestion: Keep it until I made an archive and then remove it from online site.
18:37:20 <bcotton> any other topics?
18:37:36 <pboy> So we have docu  where to find what and we have a repo for the pdfs
18:37:59 <bcotton> #topic Announcements
18:38:09 <bcotton> #help Some release notes still need written: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/how-to-write-fedora-release-notes/38311
18:38:14 <bcotton> #info We're using the docs-fp-o repo to track meta-work
18:38:14 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issues
18:38:21 <bcotton> ^ should this be updated to GitLab now?
18:39:17 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Sounds good!
18:39:26 <bcotton> (or is this a better Discussion thread?)
18:39:55 <pboy> May be a good idea to start new issues on Gitlab and to work off the old ones in pagure.
18:40:09 <pboy> So we have both for some time
18:40:46 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: +1
18:41:06 <pboy> In general we should discuss first on discussion and then finally decide here.
18:41:15 <pboy> I think
18:41:17 <py0xc3[m]> Although long term issues might be transferred from pagure to gitlab? In order to soon consolidate organization at one of them.
18:41:27 <bcotton> yeah, let's move this to discussion
18:41:31 <bcotton> #topic Previous action items
18:41:42 <bcotton> #info pbokoc to finally add a relnotes guide to the contributor docs
18:41:45 <bcotton> not done, afaik
18:41:57 <bcotton> #action pbokoc to finally add a relnotes guide to the contributor docs
18:42:02 <bcotton> #info bcotton to draft Docs Team Charter
18:42:30 <bcotton> definitely not done. I do have some time on an airplane (!!!) next week, which will be a good time to work on this
18:42:31 <bcotton> #action bcotton to draft Docs Team Charter
18:42:35 <bcotton> #info darknao to configure remaining repos in GitLib for CI
18:43:11 <darknao> ^ not done yet
18:43:22 <bcotton> #action darknao to configure remaining repos in GitLib for CI
18:43:41 <bcotton> #topic Old docs
18:44:35 <pboy> I made a suggestion of discussion about that.
18:45:14 <pboy> I'll create an archiv page with documentaton where to find what.
18:45:32 <pboy> And I check the completeness of the coresponding repos.
18:45:53 <bcotton> excellent. is there anything to discuss about it now, then?
18:45:56 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Do you need support?
18:45:59 <pboy> With all done, we remove old docs from site completely.
18:46:17 <pboy> py0xc3 would be helpful!
18:46:44 <pboy> May i ask you, when I'm working on that?
18:46:57 <py0xc3[m]> Yes. Let me know when/where to help!
18:48:02 <pboy> thanks, unfortunately I got swamped with huge problems with our server farm. But I'm recovering.
18:48:24 <bcotton> #action pboy and py0xc3 to create an archive page for old docs
18:48:59 <bcotton> anything else on this topic?
18:50:28 <bcotton> i guess not!
18:50:35 <bcotton> #topic Docs front page design
18:52:12 <pboy> There is a fundamental decision to be made here.
18:52:21 <pboy> Do we want to have both areas, community and user doc, on the start width or split from 2 sides.
18:52:39 <pboy> We had a thread on discussion about that.
18:52:54 <pboy> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-docs-design-work/40062/18
18:56:00 <bcotton> i like the idea of having them both on the same page, but clearly distinguished
18:56:27 <pboy> Me too.
18:56:34 <bcotton> the main motivation being that a curious user might start looking at contributor docs and end up being a contributor
18:56:58 <bcotton> but i'm also fine if we go with separate pages, so long as we make a decision and act on it :-)
18:57:57 <py0xc3[m]> It is important to keep it comprehensible for less-experienced users. So that should be considered; many users are not aware of the difference to "community". Fedora is "only an OS" for several
18:58:40 <pboy> I would prefer to have it on one page to make it clear, docsdoes not fall from the sky. We have to organize cooperative work.
18:58:52 <pboy> And that is the community part.
18:59:19 <pboy> py0xc3[m] Yes, therefor we need a good design!
18:59:39 <pboy> And a better text for some topics.
19:00:21 <pboy> We should wait with an intensive discussion until Anuschka is healthy again. And we should invite Allan Day. But maybe we have an opinion?
19:00:34 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Absolutely. "user" and "community" needs to be comprehensible distinguished from each other; but if that is considered, I have no preference.
19:01:40 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: +1 & +1
19:01:51 <hankuoffroad[m]> Do you mean Community doc to be wiki?
19:02:08 <pboy> No! Everything to docs
19:02:21 <pboy> I mean to Antorra.
19:02:37 <pboy> Wiki just for special cases, e.g. Change Proposal.
19:03:55 <hankuoffroad[m]> pboy: oki
19:05:19 <bcotton> so it sounds like there's a general consensus that we'd prefer a single page?
19:05:28 <pboy> +1
19:07:10 <bcotton> #agreed We'd prefer a single front page for user and contributor docs
19:07:11 <bcotton> anything else on this topic?
19:08:50 <py0xc3[m]> One comment, might make sense to focus the term "contributor" Docs when distinguishing from user docs, that's more obvious to everybody
19:09:19 <py0xc3[m]> So avoiding the term "community" as separation to "user" docs
19:09:31 <pboy> What about project doc?
19:10:08 <py0xc3[m]> Already needs the user to know that this refers to Fedora, which is a project and not just an OS :)
19:10:18 <pboy> It's not about contributor alone. But also about procedures, organisation, ressources, ....
19:10:31 <bcotton> those are also docs for contibutors
19:10:35 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Yeah, you are right about that
19:11:24 <pboy> Ok, yeah, for users vs. for contributors.
19:12:24 <pboy> Anyway, we need a smart design for that.
19:13:36 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Maybe put into the discussion to collect ideas about it?
19:14:01 <pboy> Yes, indeed.
19:15:37 <bcotton> anything else?
19:16:27 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
19:17:00 <bcotton> stop me if you've heard this before, but i probably won't be available for next week's meeting. i have a meeting in Raleigh
19:17:36 <pboy> No problem, I think.
19:18:20 <pboy> Who takes the initiative? Shaun? darknao?
19:18:20 <mateusrc> Yeah, sorry but I didn´t look into either the style guide or writing the DNF guide in the last two weeks, sorry
19:18:49 <mateusrc> mateusrc: I was busy with personal stuff + work, but I should be able to do those this week
19:18:52 <pboy> mateusrc welcome to the club. :-). me too.
19:19:47 <pboy> But I have a proposal for the new team page and contrib pages nearly ready, now.
19:20:07 <pboy> Can hopefully finish it tomorrow until evening.
19:20:26 <mateusrc> And also, apprantly a lot of disscussion about Docs happens on... Discussion.
19:20:26 <mateusrc> And I usually forget to look there, I will start keeping a close look there as well as putting a reminder to meeting on calendar
19:21:21 <mateusrc> Btw, there is one person right now on another Fedora channels asking if there's an epub version of docs, is there?
19:21:47 <pboy> It's a bit tricky, but you can config notification, so you get an email in case of new posts.
19:22:29 <pboy> We don't have a ebook version of user docs.
19:22:35 <py0xc3[m]> mateusrc: I think not, only existing PDFs could be converted. Btw, do we also have automatic creation of PDFs of the current Docs?
19:22:56 <bcotton> we don't have automatic pdfs anymore
19:23:11 <bcotton> (and i think that doesn't make sense for a lot of our content compared to 5+ years ago)
19:23:25 <py0xc3[m]> Agreed :)
19:24:43 <mateusrc> Pointed them to Dcos channel
19:24:50 <mateusrc> s/Dcos/Docs/
19:26:08 <bcotton> anything else for this week?
19:28:04 <bcotton> okay, thanks everyone!
19:28:08 <bcotton> #endmeeting