19:32:50 <darknao> #startmeeting docs
19:32:50 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar  8 19:32:50 2023 UTC.
19:32:50 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:32:50 <zodbot> The chair is darknao. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
19:32:50 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:32:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
19:32:58 <darknao> #topic Roll call
19:32:59 <darknao> #chair pboy darknao pbokoc py0xc3[m]
19:32:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: darknao pbokoc pboy py0xc3[m]
19:33:03 <darknao> .hi
19:33:04 <zodbot> darknao: darknao 'Francois Andrieu' <darknao@drkn.ninja>
19:33:09 <mateusrc> .hi mateusrodcosta
19:33:10 <zodbot> mateusrc: Sorry, but user 'mateusrc' does not exist
19:33:12 <pboy> .hi
19:33:13 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de>
19:33:35 <mateusrc> .hello mateusrodcosta
19:33:36 <zodbot> mateusrc: mateusrodcosta 'Mateus Rodrigues Costa' <mateusrodcosta@gmail.com>
19:34:05 <hankuoffroad[m]> .hello hankuoffroad
19:34:05 <zodbot> hankuoffroad[m]: hankuoffroad 'None' <allegrovelo@gmail.com>
19:35:23 <darknao> ok I think we can start
19:35:25 <darknao> #topic Agenda
19:35:37 <darknao> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/docs-meeting-agenda-2023-03-08/79166
19:35:40 <darknao> #info Announcements
19:35:42 <darknao> #info Tickets review
19:35:43 <darknao> #info Quick docs update
19:35:45 <darknao> #info New fedoraproject.org website feedback
19:35:47 <darknao> #info Everything about ui-bundle
19:35:49 <darknao> #info Open Floor
19:35:51 <darknao> #topic Announcements
19:36:17 <darknao> #info Next milestone is F38 (2023-04-18)
19:36:20 <darknao> #info F38 Beta Freeze is in effect until beta release next week (target: 2023-03-14)
19:36:21 <darknao> #info We use GitLab to track work: https://gitlab.com/groups/fedora/docs/-/boards
19:36:33 <darknao> anything else to add to that list?
19:36:59 <pboy> nope
19:37:11 <darknao> ok moving on
19:37:22 <darknao> #topic Tickets review
19:37:33 <darknao> we have one PR flagged for meeting
19:37:41 <darknao> #link https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/community-tools/documentation-contributors-guide/-/merge_requests/32
19:38:33 <darknao> #link https://fedora.gitlab.io/-/docs/community-tools/documentation-contributors-guide/-/jobs/3877343281/artifacts/public/fedora-docs/contributing-docs/casual-contributions-pagure-pages.html
19:38:58 <hankuoffroad[m]> yes, I appreciate if you could take a look at it.
19:39:05 <darknao> I did a quick review earlier, and I think it's very good
19:39:13 <pboy> reading#
19:39:37 <darknao> just one small nitpick
19:39:37 <hankuoffroad[m]> it is a new page
19:39:41 <hankuoffroad[m]> darknao: thanks
19:39:56 <hankuoffroad[m]> darknao: ok will fix
19:40:00 <darknao> the Self-assign issue paragraph could be simpler I think
19:40:50 <darknao> if you are a casual contributor, that mean you most likely don't have enough privileges to assign yourself the ticket, or even see the pencil icon to add tags
19:41:10 <hankuoffroad[m]> ah I didn't know that
19:41:51 <pboy> I'm not sure. I think a FAS account is enough, isn'it?
19:42:07 <darknao> so I think the 4 steps here can be removed and just keep the first sentence: if you want to take a ticket, just ask for it
19:42:13 <pboy> You should be able to assign yourself, but no commit
19:42:31 <hankuoffroad[m]> I have a new account to test that.
19:43:03 <darknao> pboy, I'm almost certain you need special access right on the repo to modify tickets
19:43:35 <darknao> there is a "ticket" permission for that
19:43:53 <darknao> or if you're maintainer or admin
19:44:00 <pboy> OK. The advise wo write a comment is better anyway.
19:44:14 <glb> there is also an "allow anyone to edit metadata" setting.
19:44:30 <hankuoffroad[m]> darknao: sure I will redo that without committer privilege
19:44:44 <darknao> glb: ah! good to know, let me check if that one is enabled here
19:45:15 <darknao> glb: "Open metadata access to all" ?
19:45:22 <pboy> I think, if we want to invite people to contribute, we should allow to take ticket.
19:45:35 <pboy> if possible
19:45:38 <glb> I was going from memory. 🙂
19:46:26 <darknao> well, I'm admin here so I can't really test this, but if hanku can check with his new account, that would be helpful
19:46:30 <glb> We have that set on the Fedora Magazine issue tracking repo
19:46:45 <hankuoffroad[m]> darknao: will do
19:47:01 <darknao> the option is already enabled on the quick-doc repo, so that should work
19:47:24 <pboy> very good
19:47:33 <darknao> and in that case, please disregard my comment on your page :)
19:48:23 <hankuoffroad[m]> Overall Pagure UI keeps me focused
19:48:43 <pboy> hankuoffroad[m] just a question: you don't describe the "edit a page" option, do you?
19:50:37 <hankuoffroad[m]> no. just keep to issue first.
19:50:52 <pboy> OK
19:51:31 <pboy> The page looks very good to me.
19:51:45 <hankuoffroad[m]> i mean issue/PR is a starting point to tackle priorities. navigating from edit tends to divert user to nitpicks
19:51:46 <hankuoffroad[m]> pboy: thanks
19:51:49 <darknao> right so maybe you should rename that page then?
19:52:19 <darknao> the current name implies this docs is for any pagure-based repo, but it's really focused on quick docs
19:52:22 <hankuoffroad[m]> that's a good idea. meaning the target of contributors? not really casual right?
19:53:22 <hankuoffroad[m]> I took an example of Quick Docs and the nature of QD, but in intro I empahsized it is used by other projects
19:53:51 <pboy> hankuoffroad[m] I think it is informative for casual as for non-casual contributors to QD
19:54:10 <pboy> s/as/as well as/
19:55:06 <darknao> I think we should specify in the title that it is for quick docs, but also keep the abstract that says the overall procees can be translated for any other Pagure project
19:55:08 <hankuoffroad[m]> darknao: yeah that could be precise. rename it to Contribution to Quick Doc repo - something like that..i'm open to your suggestion.
19:55:30 <hankuoffroad[m]> agreed
19:56:47 <darknao> alright, anything else on this topic?
19:57:35 <pboy> no
19:57:42 <hankuoffroad[m]> no
19:57:43 <darknao> ok, next topic then
19:57:45 <darknao> #topic Quick docs update
19:58:07 <pboy> nothing from me at the moment, sorry
19:58:16 <darknao> that's fine :)
19:58:35 <mateusrc> I have to write the Quick Doc about sleep soon
19:58:50 <mateusrc> Covering S0ix and S# sleep modes
19:58:54 <mateusrc> s/S#/S3/
19:59:03 <hankuoffroad[m]> darknao: i have cleared some PRs and issues duplicated/followed up in GItLab
19:59:32 <mateusrc> I'm not sure what the flow is? Do I need to be given access to the Quick Docs repo the same way I was given to the DNf Guide one?
20:00:15 <darknao> thanks hankuoffroad[m]
20:00:58 <darknao> mateusrc: you should be able to open a PR on the Quick-Docs repo with your changes
20:01:10 <pboy> mateusrc at least you should have the same permissions, I think (i.e. commit to repo).
20:02:00 <mateusrc> Cool, thanks!
20:02:25 <pboy> mateusrc Would be nice it you could "test" the QuickDoc guide and the template.  And write down what you are missing.
20:03:01 <mateusrc> Ok!
20:08:19 <darknao> seems like nothing else for quick docs topic
20:08:26 <darknao> #topic New fedoraproject.org website feedback
20:08:34 <pboy> no, nothing from me
20:09:00 <darknao> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/fedora-workstation-front-page-revamp-first-cut-looking-for-feedback/37169/
20:09:17 <darknao> #link https://fedora.gitlab.io/websites-apps/fedora-websites/fedora-websites-3.0/
20:10:03 <pboy> Is it the same as
20:10:11 <pboy> #link https://stg.fedoraproject.org
20:10:19 <darknao> so current status is, there is one Documentation section in Contributors > Documentation, that are contributor focused docs
20:10:42 <pboy> And will this be the future project landing page, which is currently redirected to getfedora?
20:11:00 <darknao> and another one in Help > Documentation, that is user-focused doc (which is kind of empty right now, but we can add pretty much anything we want here)
20:11:05 <darknao> pboy: no it's not
20:11:19 <darknao> the one on gitlab is more up to date
20:11:28 <darknao> the stg one is updated once weekly
20:11:55 <pboy> OK, but it will be the future landing page?
20:11:55 <darknao> and yes, this is going to be the future project landing page
20:12:11 <darknao> https://fedoraproject.org
20:12:35 <darknao> getfedora.org will disappear
20:12:45 <pboy> Regarding documentation, i think that is not enough!
20:12:46 <glb> > the one on gitlab is more up to date
20:12:46 <glb> https://fedora.gitlab.io/websites-apps/fedora-websites/fedora-websites-3.0/
20:15:03 <pboy> The current solution is really bad. There is no docs at all.
20:15:05 <glb> > Regarding documentation, i think that is not enough!
20:15:05 <glb> An issue filed in the websites-3.0 repo with a list of titles, links, and descriptions would be great. 🙂
20:15:06 <glb> https://gitlab.com/fedora/websites-apps/fedora-websites/fedora-websites-3.0
20:15:28 <glb> I know. It's not finished.
20:15:35 <darknao> #link https://gitlab.com/fedora/websites-apps/fedora-websites/fedora-websites-3.0/-/issues
20:15:47 <pboy> And docs is quite different from help
20:16:05 <glb> Well, there are some docs under the contributors menu. But if you could also verify that those are correct, that'd be great.
20:16:23 <darknao> pboy: do you have any proposals here?
20:16:59 <pboy> darknao: The simplest one to make the same as for help for documentation. That would be the minimal.
20:17:28 <pboy> The wide critique on Fedora is: technically excellent, missing docs, not usable.#
20:17:45 <pboy> So we really need docs most visible!
20:18:26 <darknao> ok, so just to summarize a bit about the docs situation on the website:
20:18:28 <glb> I thought the idea to put the links to docs directly on the download pages was a good one.
20:19:00 <pboy> glb On a first look, the contributor docs is correct. But I'll check that in more detail.
20:19:11 <mateusrc> Oh, yeah, btw I ahve a question for the Open Floor, soon...
20:19:29 <darknao> we have the doc link directly in the front page, one dedicated section in the Help menu, another one contributors oriented in the Contributors menu, and various link in the download page
20:19:31 <pboy> glb that is indeed a good one! And we should keep that!
20:19:42 <darknao> like here: https://fedora.gitlab.io/websites-apps/fedora-websites/fedora-websites-3.0/workstation/download/
20:20:41 <glb> relase notes and installation guide make sense and look good to me.
20:20:57 <pboy> darknao yes, but we need the term "documentation", and we need it most visible!
20:21:09 <glb> s/relase/release/
20:21:22 <pboy> glb There is no installation guide anymore!
20:22:15 <darknao> I personally think the Documentation in the Help menu is quite visible enough, but I'm also kinda biased as I'm on both team here
20:22:22 <glb> I think that is something that will need to be addressed right away then!
20:22:55 <darknao> in any case, please open a ticket https://gitlab.com/fedora/websites-apps/fedora-websites/fedora-websites-3.0/-/issues here and we'll try to figure this out
20:23:17 <darknao> (we need to move on to the two remaining topics)
20:23:47 <pboy> OK let's switch
20:23:55 <darknao> #topic Everything about ui-bundle
20:23:55 <pboy> glb +1
20:24:09 <darknao> ok so it seems you have some questions about the ui-bundle
20:24:14 <darknao> please ask away :)
20:24:25 <pboy> Well, The zu bundle is specified in site.yma in repo root.
20:24:32 <pboy> in teampage and in quickdoc it is the same file name:
20:24:46 <pboy> url: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/ui-bundle/-/jobs/artifacts/HEAD/raw/build/ui-bundle.zip?job=bundle-stable
20:24:52 <mateusrc> What is it? Any link?
20:24:54 <darknao> #link https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/ui-bundle
20:24:55 <pboy> but: teamüage uses ./build.sh & ./preview.sh (which works for me on mac)
20:25:05 <pboy> quickdocs uses ./builder.sh  which doesn't work for me on mac
20:25:23 <pboy> and they differ in handling the podman / dicker container
20:25:48 <pboy> s/dicker/docker/
20:25:52 <darknao> the build.sh/preview.sh and builder.sh is unrelated to the ui-bundle
20:26:02 <darknao> so I'm not sure to follow
20:26:04 <pboy> And I'm wondering about that
20:26:39 <darknao> the ui-bundle is a Antora thing that contains the styles & layout used to build the docs
20:26:54 <darknao> basically, it's the website template
20:27:22 <pboy> OK, and what does the preview building?
20:27:49 <darknao> there is only two version of them: the stable one, used almost everywhere, and the staging one, used to test upcomming feature (there is none at this time)
20:29:25 <pboy> So I can change the ui address and there is no change in the preview build process?
20:29:52 <darknao> the process is the same yes
20:30:49 <pboy> And what does the change in the build process between teampage and QuickDocs ?
20:30:56 <darknao> you might end up with a different website look if you don't use the same bundle, but that should not affect the building process at all, just the resulting html files
20:32:27 <darknao> I don't know, that should be the same process for any docs
20:32:32 <pboy> I would like to have it the other way, update the look of the preview, but don't change the preview build process.
20:33:09 <pboy> Well, the preview build process is definitely different between teampage and quickdocs
20:33:26 <darknao> the script you mean?
20:33:35 <pboy> Yes, the script.
20:33:49 <darknao> you can use whatever version of the script with any repo
20:33:56 <pboy> At least the result is different, temapage works for me, quickdoc does not
20:34:01 <darknao> there is nothing specific in it
20:34:22 <darknao> if the teampage script works  for you, you can just use that for the quickdoc as well
20:34:49 <pboy> OK, and where do I find the script?
20:35:03 <darknao> in the teampage repo?
20:35:32 <pboy> yes, but so far as I know the script is updated in the same step as we update the ui.
20:36:06 <pboy> But it's OK for now. I'll look at the two repos.
20:36:23 <pboy> And will come back, maybe with additional questions. :-)
20:37:03 <pboy> There is a question from <+mateusrc>
20:37:07 <darknao> I think only the new docsbuilder.sh script is auto-updating, the old one that work for you don't autoupdate
20:37:24 <darknao> we are a bit out of time here :/
20:37:31 <mateusrc> pboy: Yes
20:37:33 <mateusrc> Is it Open Floor already?
20:37:35 <pboy> darkno OK, I'l give it a try.
20:37:46 <mateusrc> Oh, well, but basically it was about RPM documentation
20:37:46 <darknao> #topic open floor
20:37:53 <darknao> mateusrc: you have 1 minute :p
20:38:08 <darknao> we are already late
20:38:20 <darknao> #nextmeeting
20:38:25 <mateusrc> I read a blog post saying that RPM documentation in Fedora is lacking and it looks like what is there is intended for those who already know RPM
20:39:48 <darknao> about using RPM or writing RPM?
20:40:07 <glb> Is zodbot out to lunch?
20:40:45 <glb> .nextmeeting
20:40:45 <zodbot> glb: (nextmeeting <channel>) -- Return the next meeting scheduled for a particular channel.
20:41:05 <darknao> I think that just me not using the right command
20:41:15 <mateusrc> darknao: Writing
20:41:20 <glb> .nextmeeting fedora-meeting
20:41:22 <zodbot> glb: b'In #fedora-meeting is EPEL Steering Committee (starting in 18 minutes)'
20:41:25 <zodbot> glb: b'In #fedora-meeting is Magazine editorial board (starting in 19 hours)'
20:41:28 <zodbot> glb: b'In #fedora-meeting is F38 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting (starting in 20 hours)'
20:41:31 <zodbot> glb: - https://calendar.fedoraproject.org/location/fedora-meeting%40irc.libera.chat/
20:41:49 <pboy> We are
20:41:58 <pboy> .nextmeeting #fedora-meeting-1
20:41:59 <zodbot> pboy: b'In #fedora-meeting-1 is FPgM office hours (starting in 18 minutes)'
20:42:03 <zodbot> pboy: b'In #fedora-meeting-1 is Rust SIG Meeting (starting in 18 minutes)'
20:42:06 <zodbot> pboy: b'In #fedora-meeting-1 is CPE PO Office Hours (starting in 18 hours)'
20:42:09 <zodbot> pboy: - https://calendar.fedoraproject.org/location/fedora-meeting-1%40irc.libera.chat/
20:42:38 <darknao> mateusrc: we have a small tutorial here: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/package-maintainers/Packaging_Tutorial_GNU_Hello/
20:43:30 <mateusrc> darknao: This is the blog post, there's a section with a rant on RPM: https://yorickpeterse.com/articles/switching-to-fedora-silverblue/
20:43:49 <mateusrc> The porblem might just be guiding the users better to the resources though
20:45:40 <pboy> I guess, we should continue the RPM topic next meeting? It's late now.
20:45:42 <darknao> yeah, the Packaging section of the docs is quite heavy https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/
20:46:00 <pboy> We won't make the next team nerveous
20:46:14 <darknao> I think it really need some improvment, but that's unfortunately out of scope of our team
20:46:37 <darknao> pboy: yes, let's continue the discussion on #fedora-docs if needed
20:46:46 <darknao> thanks everyone for today!
20:46:48 <darknao> #endmeeting