17:01:26 #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-06-18 17:01:26 Meeting started Mon Jun 18 17:01:26 2012 UTC. The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:01:26 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:01:31 #meetingname famsco 17:01:31 The meeting name has been set to 'famsco' 17:01:45 #topic Roll Call 17:01:49 .fas cwickert 17:01:49 cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' 17:01:56 .fas eischmann 17:01:57 sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' 17:02:21 .fas aeperezt 17:02:22 aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' 17:02:57 * herlo is here 17:03:46 #chairs herlo sesivany cwickert bckurera aeperezt 17:03:52 #chair herlo sesivany cwickert bckurera aeperezt 17:03:52 Current chairs: aeperezt bckurera cwickert herlo sesivany 17:03:53 .fas bckurera 17:03:53 bckurera: bckurera 'Buddhika Kurera' 17:03:54 better 17:04:10 cwickert: that only took 3 minutes to get a quorum :) 17:04:37 :) 17:04:50 hopefully we will continue with this pace 17:04:55 what about nb? 17:05:06 he is here, but not here I guess. 17:06:01 hi 17:06:10 * cwickert just edited https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_members 17:06:13 #chair nb 17:06:13 Current chairs: aeperezt bckurera cwickert herlo nb sesivany 17:06:17 .fas nick@bebout 17:06:20 nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' 17:06:30 .fas bckurera 17:06:30 bckurera_: bckurera 'Buddhika Kurera' 17:06:42 * cwickert wonders who is missing 17:06:55 cwickert: jiri eischmann? 17:07:02 jiri is sesivany i think 17:07:04 no, sesivany is here 17:07:04 or is that sesivany 17:07:08 ahh, okay 17:07:10 I'm here :) 17:07:16 * herlo is not clear with nicks yet :) 17:07:32 dbruno is missing 17:07:40 danielbruno is listed above 17:07:42 * bckurera_ is having troubles with the internet connection 17:07:51 danielbruno, is here but not here seems like 17:07:59 ok, then lets start 17:08:13 #topic Announcements 17:09:06 #info We have a new FAmSCo: Christoph Wickert, Jiri Eischmann, Clint Savage, Nick Bebout, Alejandro Perez, Daniel Bruno, Buddhika Chandradeepa Kurera 17:09:31 yay! Welcome all! 17:09:37 hello 17:09:41 i'm back 17:10:06 danielbruno, welcome back 17:10:06 #info Fedora Board Runoff Election is open till tomorrow, vote either nb or evilbob at https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting/about/runoffboardf18 17:10:14 #chair danielbruno 17:10:14 Current chairs: aeperezt bckurera cwickert danielbruno herlo nb sesivany 17:10:26 any more announcements? 17:11:09 * cwickert grabs some coffee, do your announcements in the meantime :) 17:11:31 ? 17:12:16 * bckurera New meeting time is an announcement too, I suppose :) 17:12:35 bckurera: indeed 17:12:43 ok, is everybody find with this time? 17:12:45 but everyone made it, so that's a step in the right direction :) 17:12:50 or should we meet an hour later? 17:13:06 This time is fine with me. 17:13:14 I'm. It works for me more than one hour later. 17:13:18 +1 for 1700 UTC 17:13:34 to me works fine 1700 or 1800 17:13:45 danielbruno: what works better? no difference? 17:14:05 no difference 17:14:09 +1 for 1700 UTC 17:14:12 It works for me bud prefer a hour later 17:14:20 I prefer 1700UTC but either works 17:14:20 aeperezt, nb: what about you? 17:14:38 aeperezt: seems you are the only one 17:14:49 #agreed new FAMSCo meeting time is Monday at 17:00 UTC 17:14:53 cwickert, yes I know 17:14:54 #info new FAMSCo meeting time is Monday at 17:00 UTC 17:15:01 ok, any further announcements? 17:15:03 so 17:00 UTC 17:15:07 yupp 17:15:44 some more things, although not necessarily announcements 17:15:57 we don't use the meeting protocol as we are only 7 people 17:16:05 just speak up whenever you feel you have to 17:16:23 if it gets too chaotic I might insist on following the protocol though :) 17:16:50 we don't have a fixed agenda in the wiki either, we use trac 17:17:15 the meeting agenda is generated of all tickets in FAmSCo's trac that have the 'meeting' keyword 17:17:19 you can find it at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9 17:17:32 and of course it's down again :( 17:19:03 it's intermittent it seems like 17:19:15 ok, while skvidal is look at it, lets move on 17:19:44 #topic Election of the FAmSCo Chairs 17:19:50 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules 17:20:49 according to the election rules we have to elect a chair person within 2 weeks after the election 17:21:16 and that person has to appoint a vice-chair 17:21:42 usually the chair is the person who got the most votes, but this is not mandatory 17:21:50 I do volunteer, anybody else? 17:22:34 come on... 17:22:54 * cwickert wonders if he got disconnected 17:23:08 nop 17:23:09 cwickert: we all just think you're the right person for that ;) 17:23:13 you didn't get disconnected :) 17:23:15 * nb nominates cwickert 17:23:19 or herlo 17:23:32 nb + 17:23:37 +1 17:23:40 +1 17:23:43 sesivany +1 17:24:00 #agreed cwickert is the old and new FAmSCo chair 17:24:06 +1 cwickert 17:24:08 ok, now for the vice 17:24:20 frankly speaking I don't like appointing one 17:24:31 how about we elect it, too? 17:24:48 if we don't have at least 3 volunteers, I'll just appoint somebody :P 17:24:57 don't tell me I haven't warned you ;) 17:25:03 I would like to volunteer if there is no one :) 17:25:04 I think it should be someone from a different region, just to maintain a polarity. 17:25:15 * herlo doesn't want to be the vice :) 17:25:28 sesivany: right, I was about to appoint you, but I would want somebody from non-EMEA 17:25:35 * danielbruno is a volunteer 17:25:36 :) 17:25:40 I will volunteer 17:25:40 what does vice chair do? just run the meetings when chair is not here? 17:25:44 * nb will volunteer if so 17:25:46 dammit herlo, how did you know I was looking at you? ;) 17:26:35 nb: ideally, the vice chair is to do all the secretarial work like posting the meeting minutes, update the wiki and tracs with logs etc 17:26:39 lol 17:26:56 so the chair is the rockstar and the vice chair the idiot that does all the work :) 17:27:00 haha 17:27:05 jaja 17:27:06 lol 17:27:21 in the past, I did all the secretarial work, too 17:27:30 basically it's just a fallback 17:27:35 cwickert +1 :D 17:27:51 so, who volunteered? bckurera, nb and danielbruno? 17:28:09 no, not danielbruno but aeperezt 17:28:09 aeperezt, nb and danielbruno i think 17:28:26 * danielbruno is a volunteer 17:29:00 I think is bckurera danielbruno nb aeperezt 17:29:09 all voulunteer for it 17:29:12 oh yeah, bckurera did also 17:29:23 4 candidates is hard to get a majority 17:29:48 therefor I hereby appoint danielbruno 17:29:52 well, let's just say you can't vote for yourself? 17:29:53 cwickert I am out, I want if there is no one only :) 17:29:57 oh, okay! 17:30:10 uhul :) 17:30:21 reduce to danielbruno nb aeperezt 17:30:32 danielbruno: are you fine with being appointed? 17:30:38 * danielbruno is preparing for heavy work 17:30:47 * nb is fine with danielbruno being appointed 17:30:54 +1 17:31:02 cwickert, it's ok to me 17:31:09 cwickert +1 for danielbruno 17:31:15 ok, congrats to danielbruno 17:31:25 #info danielbruno is new FAmSCo vice-chair 17:31:35 * bckurera , my internet connection is not stable therefore it is not getting synchronized well, sorry about it 17:31:47 bckurera: no problem, we can still read you 17:32:06 ok, in the meantime trac is working again 17:32:26 should we just start with the day to day business or are there questions or suggestions? 17:33:19 * cwickert has something I want to ask, but this is going to take a little longer, so I suggest we first do tickets 17:33:37 #topic Funding for fvollero for EuroPython 17:33:44 .famsco 297 17:33:44 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/297 17:33:54 cwickert: it's solved. 17:34:07 sesivany: it is? 17:34:11 who pays for it? 17:34:12 cwickert: Francesco found funding within Red Hat. 17:34:15 ah 17:34:51 #info #297 can be closed, fvollero receives funding from his employer 17:35:18 #topic Funding for jreznik for LinuxTag 2012 17:35:26 .famsco 292 17:35:26 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/292 17:35:44 this is just for the record 17:36:04 LinuxTag is over, jreznik and sesivany were there to help us 17:36:15 and the ticket we are talking about here is just 78 17:36:24 so I suggest we just rubberstamp it 17:36:38 does everybody agree? 17:36:46 +1 17:36:48 +1 17:36:55 I agree +1 17:37:03 +1 17:37:05 +1 17:37:05 +1 obviously 17:37:13 #agreed #292 is approved 17:37:22 this brings us to the next ticket 17:37:33 #topic Budget review guidelines 17:37:41 .famsco 281 17:37:41 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/281 17:38:08 this ticket is about the limits of things that can be approved by the regional meetings or by individual FAmSCo members 17:38:30 we need to get this fixed so we can talk about the really important things in our FAmSCo meetings 17:39:22 basically we all agree there are 3 levels: peer, regional meeting, FAmSCo 17:39:44 well, in fact 4 levels, because some things are even too big for FAmSCo to approve 17:39:58 The funding amount ranges are ok, +1 17:40:05 and then we need somebody from RH to look into it and issue a PO 17:40:38 bckurera: I think they are not, at least for EMEA or NA I think we need to raise the first level 17:40:44 I'm not just sure "what is local community", it's not very well defined in the proposal. 17:40:56 sesivany: like the EMEA ambassadors meeting 17:41:21 i like comment 9 17:41:24 cwickert, I think this something new famsco members need to read about well before calling a vote 17:41:38 cwickert , my experience lies with APAC needs, that is why :) 17:41:46 cwickert, and see if we have something to add 17:41:53 0-500, 500-1999, 2000-5000, 5000+ 17:42:04 aeperezt: good point 17:42:13 nb: sounds good 17:42:27 nb: can you please add your suggestion to the wiki? 17:42:31 erm, ticket 17:42:43 cwickert, it was, comment 9 on the wiki 17:42:44 cwickert: that's what I thought, but is there any quorum? Because a local community approval may become peer approval... just from my experience from ambassadors meeting attendance :) 17:43:01 sesivany: fair point 17:43:25 should we say "at least 5 ambassadors" or "5 ambassdors + local famsco member"? 17:43:25 sesivany, good point 17:43:26 cwickert, also if there is another ticket like that we need to learn about before getting to vote. 17:43:54 aeperezt: yeah, take your time, we don't need to make a decision today, we need to discuss it first 17:43:59 cwickert: 5 should be fine. 17:43:59 nb : 0-200 would be more reasonable as the first range? 17:44:05 sesivany, you are right latam righ now do not have reginal mettings 17:44:35 and no mettings call for now I'm working on that 17:44:57 sesivany if anyone interest it is his duty to participate the meeting, this works well for APAC right now 17:45:05 bckurera: 200 is not enough, as kital wrote the dinner at FOSDEM was close to 300 EUR, that is USD 390 17:45:11 plus the number of ambassadors should change per region + local famsco member 17:45:31 if we do "local famsco member" we have a problem if the region doesn't have one 17:46:09 * nb -1 local famsco member 17:46:16 not necessarily each region has one 17:46:46 if the region has no famsco member then it can invite a famsco member to the meting 17:47:12 what about letting regions set their rules? It should be their responsibility, let them rule by their rules. 17:47:13 I don't think it is necessary for a famsco member to be at the meeting 17:47:23 maybe the mentors of each region may represent the ambassadors 17:47:28 but maybe say that at least 5 ambassadors have to be there? 17:47:28 as long as there is a famsco member I think it could be right if there is no famsco member in that region 17:47:40 sesivany: good point 17:47:49 cwickert this depends on the region, like APAC we are doing good now 17:47:55 sesivany, good point 17:48:08 bckurera: yes, I have seen this with the FAD already 17:48:47 ok, so how about we go with 0-500, 500-1999, 2000-5000, 5000+ and 5 ambassdors as rule of thumb but allow the regions to make their own rules? 17:48:51 cwickert: I suggest we discuss this issue with the regional meetings and will get their idea and form a better framework 17:48:54 but it needs some time 17:48:58 * herlo likes cwickert's last suggestion 17:49:02 fine with me 17:49:28 ok, lets stick to my suggestion for now and revisit the ticket once we have discussed it in the different regions 17:49:32 cwickert, +1 17:49:52 cwickert: +1 17:49:52 * nb suggests we plan to vote next week 17:49:58 this ticket has been going for months 17:50:14 nb: give it two weeks because some regions don't meet every week 17:50:16 nb 17:50:18 cwickert, ok 17:50:21 2 weeks then 17:50:25 nb: i think we were close to a vote before the change in leadership 17:50:27 well, we could actually try one 17:50:35 EMEA meets on Wednesday 17:50:36 nb don't think latam will be ready for next monday 17:50:59 danielbruno, waht do you think we can call a metting and have an agrement on time for this? 17:51:01 aeperezt, we need to date a meeting on latam 17:51:06 aeperezt, danielbruno: can you bring this up on the latam mailing list? 17:51:20 herlo, yeah, i agree 17:51:21 cwickert, yes will do 17:51:22 cwickert lets say it needs to be sponsored by more than 5 FAms, rather than votes. It means the responsibility of USD 500 maximum should be beard by minimum 5 FAms 17:51:32 nb: :) 17:51:36 bckurera, not 500 maximum 17:51:42 0-500 only needs peer review 17:51:50 #action aeperezt to ask for feedback about #281 on the LATAM mailing list 17:51:56 bckurera, 500-1999 needs at least regional approval/5 ambassadors guideline 17:52:24 nb a mistake, it should be 1999 :) 17:52:33 bckurera, oh ok 17:52:52 #action all FAmSCo members to discuss #281 with their local communities and provide feedback in the trac ticket 17:53:44 sounds good 17:54:04 good 17:54:20 #agreed: for now we go with 4 levels (0-499, 500-1999, 2000-5000, 5000+) and allow the regions to make their own rules. 5 ambassadors should be rule of thumb for regional meetings, but exceptions may be granted per region 17:54:34 does everybody agree to that summary? 17:54:55 yeah 17:54:57 cwickert: +1 17:54:57 agree 17:54:59 +1 17:55:23 +1 17:55:32 ok then 17:55:57 cwickert: If the request is made by a FAmSCo member and the amount is below 499, it needs to be approved by another FAmSCo member 17:56:21 bckurera: can you please add this as a suggestion to the ticket? 17:57:01 * cwickert is looking for suggestions which ticket to discuss next 17:57:24 aeperezt, let's call the meeting at the scheduled time before? 17:57:37 +1 17:57:53 aeperezt, on latam 17:57:54 * bckurera stuck with the internet connection :( 17:58:00 cwickert +1 17:58:24 cwickert: you'll have to discuss Francesco's request after all. I just pinged him and found out that he wasn't funded after all :-/ 17:58:32 bckurera: I kind of think if a famsco member asks for money, it should go through his/her region, just like any other ambassador. The only caveat to that is if it's needing approval from FAmSCo. 17:58:47 danielbruno, I think we should, but we need to address the matter on the list, so people show 17:59:24 herlo: the idea was that FAmSCo members count as peers, just like credit card holders. thus, they should be able to make decisions up to 499 USD 17:59:53 plus peers also include people delegated authority (like NA shippers/regional ambassadors/whatever we call ourselves now) 18:00:15 cwickert: indeed. I didn't mean to dilute the statement. 18:00:33 herlo: yes my concern is that, we need to be clear, so no ambiguities, anyway will keep the discussion on the trac 18:00:37 nb: right 18:00:46 just wanted to clarify that it seems a bit vague in that area. 18:00:52 aeperezt, sure, as we are not having periodic meetings we should to inform the matter to the most people interested can attend. 18:01:05 ok, anything more on this or should we just add our thoughts to the ticket? 18:01:21 cwickert: yeah, add thoughts is a good direction forward. 18:01:22 i guess the question is, can a "peer" approve something for themself 18:01:30 is what bckurera was talking about i think 18:01:30 cwickert, the only thing I see on the ticket 18:02:01 is what is the region budget now? 18:02:09 nb: good question, we need to ask a credit card holder 18:02:18 true 18:02:18 aeperezt: that is a different issue and ticket 18:02:24 since they are the one paying anyway 18:02:35 nb: right, I was more interested in saying that in that instance, they are just a normal ambassador and can't ask themselves for approval 18:02:44 herlo, yeah 18:02:45 cwickert, yes but if the limits are close to the budget that maybe an issue 18:03:14 nb: I would like to think we trust the credit card holders enough to have them approve something for "themselves" just by giving them a credit card 18:03:21 cwickert, yeah, i agree 18:03:29 nb : not a question exactly but feel like it is good to have a clause asking not to approve as peer his/her own requests :) 18:03:49 aeperezt: lets please discuss this as a different question. the limit is definitely higher than 5000+ 18:04:14 erm, the regional budget is higher than the highest limit of 5000+ 18:04:56 bckurera: in NA and EMEA this is no problem, we do trust the credit card holders enough 18:05:08 but I see it could be an issue in other regions 18:05:16 I think we're over time 18:05:18 we don't have a credit card holder in APAC 18:05:25 herlo: yes we are 18:05:26 and we really should move this to the ticket 18:05:31 +1 18:05:33 * herlo notes one rule cwickert didn't mention 18:05:44 the 15 minutes bell? 18:05:46 ~15 minutes per ticket is a good goal 18:05:52 cwickert: :) 18:05:54 right 18:06:00 cwickert we trust them too but a matter of completeness :) , we have Harish 18:06:00 let me explain this to the new fellows 18:06:14 usually we discuss everything for 15 minutes 18:06:16 or less 18:06:33 and after 15 minutes I ask if people still want to continue this topic/ticket 18:06:39 I hope this makes sense 18:07:00 ok, lets stop with this ticket for now, we all just add our suggestions to the ticket 18:07:05 +1 18:07:14 +1 18:07:23 +1 18:07:25 it is a good rule indeed +1 18:07:36 should we discuss one more or close this meeting? 18:07:36 I truly think we have a lot of good ideas. Putting them down on the ticket will help us to track them properly as well. 18:07:52 * herlo is available for a short time, probably ~15 minutes :P 18:08:02 * sesivany too 18:08:17 * nb is fine with continuing 18:08:28 do we need to discuss that one reimbursement ticket? 18:08:29 lets quickly do #297 again then 18:08:44 #topic Funding for fvollero for EuroPython (redux) 18:08:52 .famsco 297 18:08:52 .famsco 297 18:08:53 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/297 18:08:55 lol 18:08:56 https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/297 18:08:59 sory 18:09:05 s/r/rr/ 18:09:12 ok, it's 5 nights, 85 EUR each 18:09:22 that makes it 425 EUR 18:09:40 approx 534 USD 18:09:50 fvollero has actually offered to take over something himself 18:10:11 but then we need two different invoices, say one for 3 and one for 2 nights 18:10:19 I think we should just pay everything 18:10:25 and my motivation is as follows: 18:10:38 he is already paying for plane and stuff 18:11:08 1. I want to spend more stuff on non-ambassadors. if we want to get new developers, we'll probably get them at an event like this one and not at yet another exhibition 18:11:09 yeah, Francesco is already paying for everything else. 18:11:23 so generally, spend more money on developers and getting things done 18:11:29 and 2: 18:11:30 cwickert: the event is big, about 800 devels. 18:11:30 #proposal reimburse 5 nights at 85 EUR each 18:11:46 fvollero is member of the Open Source and Standards team 18:11:56 this is the successor of CommArch 18:12:06 so these are the people we get our money from in the future 18:12:22 and I hope that we get more money if we show we are willing to spend money :) 18:12:38 they also do the sponsoring for other communities such as JBoss etc 18:12:50 but this doesn't go through Fedora or FAmSCo 18:13:06 and I want RH to give more budget under the control of the community 18:13:12 does this makes sense? 18:13:18 yes 18:13:20 yes 18:13:24 yes 18:13:37 +1 18:13:38 ok, then +1 to nb's propsal 18:13:43 +1 18:13:46 +1 18:14:25 agree with 5*85 EUR reimbursement, +1 18:14:37 me counts +4 18:14:47 +5 with nb 18:14:51 +1 18:14:51 +1 18:15:13 #agreed fvollero receives full funding for accommodation at EuroPython, that is 425 EUR 18:15:19 #undo 18:15:19 Removing item from minutes: 18:15:38 #agreed #297 is approved, fvollero receives full funding for accommodation at EuroPython, that is 425 EUR 18:15:43 ok, that's it 18:15:52 #topic Open Floor 18:15:59 one more thing before we leave 18:16:07 I want all of us to do some homework 18:16:27 in the past, the board had "strategic goals" 18:16:39 but they did not really work out because nobody took care of them 18:16:49 so we now have individual goals 18:17:11 every board member picks 2-3 things that he/she wants to achieve during his/her term 18:17:18 and I want all of us to do the same 18:17:36 think about what is going wrong in your region and how you want to fix it 18:17:38 +1 from me on the previous proposal as well. 18:17:58 it doesn't necessarily need to be an ambassadors problem, but anything you want to do 18:18:22 for example, I said I want to get 3 upstream developers of my packages becoming co-maintainers in Fedora 18:18:36 this is not specific to the board, but nevertheless it helps Fedora 18:18:49 so think about what you can do to help Fedora, to move things forward 18:19:03 +1 to this idea 18:19:03 and write it down and send it to the ambassadors list 18:19:08 does this sound good? 18:19:33 cwickert: no problem, good idea 18:19:40 we all had things like this on our platforms when we ran for famsco, good plan to use those as a starting point. 18:19:55 danielbruno, aeperezt: for you a goal could be "try to establish regional meetings in LATAM" 18:20:06 sound better ! 18:20:22 i share the same idea 18:20:40 bckurera: in APAC there seem to be problems with swag production and shipping, so you perhaps want to work on that 18:21:00 it's your decision, I just want all of us to think about it and write to the ambassdors list 18:21:18 then our ambassadors see what are are about to do and can comment on it 18:21:20 sounds like a plan 18:21:30 oh 18:21:36 and they will be able to see who achieved his goals 18:21:37 who should receive APAC and LATAM's case badges 18:21:44 * nb is sending EMEA's to sesivany soon 18:21:57 but be careful, don't be over ambitious 18:22:25 bckurera: this is important, I know you are very ambitious. only set yourself a goal when you can reach it 18:22:26 cwickert : there are some I ll work on that plus some new stuffs which makes things fresh :) 18:22:34 ok, cool 18:22:58 sesivany: can you give me your address, I can send you stickers 18:23:12 ok, I think that's it for today 18:23:15 cwickert , noted that :) 18:23:16 thanks verybody for coming 18:23:28 s/verybody/everybody 18:23:43 it was awesome to have 'all' FAmSCo members in one meeting 18:23:48 :) 18:23:52 agreed 18:24:01 I think the previous FAmSCo never managed to have 7 people present :) 18:24:07 looking forward to work with you 18:24:23 #endmeeting