17:00 < cwickert> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-06-25
17:00 <@zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jun 25 17:00:38 2012 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00 <@zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00 < cwickert> #meetingname famsco
17:00 <@zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:01 < cwickert> #chair aeperezt cwickert danielbruno nb
17:01 <@zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt cwickert danielbruno nb
17:01  * cwickert wonders who is missing
17:01  * danielbruno here
17:02 < cwickert> #topic Role call
17:02 < cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:02 <@zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:02  * aeperezt here
17:02 < aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:02 <@zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:02 < danielbruno> .fas dbruno
17:02 <@zodbot> danielbruno: dbruno 'Daniel Bruno' <danielbrunos@gmail.com>
17:03 < nb> .fas nick@bebout
17:03 <@zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nick@bebout.net>
17:03 < maktrix> .fas mahayalamkhan@fedoraproject.org
17:03 <@zodbot> maktrix: 'mahayalamkhan@fedoraproject.org' Not Found!
17:03 < maktrix> .fas <mahayalamkhan@gmail.com>
17:03 <@zodbot> maktrix: '<mahayalamkhan@gmail.com>' Not Found!
17:03 < cwickert> .fas mak
17:03 <@zodbot> cwickert: szechunm 'szechunm' <makszechun@gmail.com> - anusin 'sindhu' <makke_moneyy@yahoo.com> - makfinsky 'Ivan Makfinsky' <ivan.makfinsky@endosys.com> - hamako 'Hamako Lavoie' <hamako.lavoie@gmail.com> - tmak 'Thomas Marek' <tmak@gmx.de> - radhika 'RADHIKA MAKWANA' <radhi.comp@gmail.com> - hzdrus 'Vladimir Ivashchenko' <hazard@hazard.maks.net> - shaileshmakwana 'shailesh makwana' <shailesh.makwana990@gmail.com> - (30 more messages)
17:04 < maktrix> .fas mak
17:04 < cwickert> uh
17:04 <@zodbot> maktrix: szechunm 'szechunm' <makszechun@gmail.com> - anusin 'sindhu' <makke_moneyy@yahoo.com> - makfinsky 'Ivan Makfinsky' <ivan.makfinsky@endosys.com> - hamako 'Hamako Lavoie' <hamako.lavoie@gmail.com> - tmak 'Thomas Marek' <tmak@gmx.de> - radhika 'RADHIKA MAKWANA' <radhi.comp@gmail.com> - hzdrus 'Vladimir Ivashchenko' <hazard@hazard.maks.net> - shaileshmakwana 'shailesh makwana' <shailesh.makwana990@gmail.com> - (30 more messages)
17:04 < cwickert> .fas  maktrix
17:04 <@zodbot> cwickert: mak 'Mahay Alam Khan' <mahayalamkhan@gmail.com>
17:04 < maktrix> :P
17:04 < cwickert> that's better :)
17:04 < cwickert> thanks for joining us maktrix
17:04 < cwickert> maktrix is no FAmSCo member, but one of our APAC ambassadors
17:05  * cwickert is looking for herlo and bckurera
17:05 < nb> ? how many is quorum?
17:05 < nb> 4 or 5?
17:05 < cwickert> 4
17:05 < nb> ok great
17:06 < cwickert> #info Jiri is on vacation, he sent regrets to the mailing list
17:06 < cwickert> #topic Announcements
17:06 < cwickert> #info nb as elected in the Fedora 18 runoff elections and will now not only serve in FAmSCo but also in the Fedora Board
17:07 < cwickert> congrats nb!
17:07 < cwickert> any more announcements?
17:07 < danielbruno> congrats nb!!
17:07 < nb> thanks :)
17:07 < aeperezt> helo, anounced on the list he was traveling today
17:07 < cwickert> #info herlo is traveling, too, he also sent regrets to the list
17:08 < aeperezt> congrats nb
17:08 < cwickert> so the only one missing is bckurera
17:08 < cwickert> ok, lets get started
17:08 < cwickert> the agenda for this meeting can be found at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9
17:08 < cwickert> alright, lets start wit the easy ones
17:09 < cwickert> #topic Fedora Realease 17 Party Peru
17:09 < cwickert> .famsco 301
17:09 <@zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/301
17:09 < cwickert> zodbot is a little slow today :)
17:10 < cwickert> danielbruno, aeperezt: your thoughts?
17:10 < danielbruno> the trac is slow too
17:11 < aeperezt> danielbruno, that what going to say
17:11 < danielbruno> zodbot is down :(
17:11 < aeperezt> I think she is asking 400, what is the tipical amount for a release party? if there is one
17:11 < cwickert> wow, everything is slow today
17:12 < cwickert> even meetbot
17:12 < danielbruno> yeah they are asking for 490 USD
17:12 < cwickert> I think this is a lot
17:12 < cwickert> compared to other release events
17:12 < aeperezt> cwickert, right
17:13 < danielbruno> it's a little confused
17:13 < cwickert> usually, we allow around 150 USD or 100 EUR without explicit approval
17:13 < danielbruno> because each item is described in local money
17:13 < danielbruno> only the amount is in dollars
17:13 < cwickert> I don't mind approving more if it is to become a good event
17:13 < aeperezt> she is a new as ambassador, Peru does not have banners so, I think tshirts for everyone is to much
17:14 < aeperezt> and seems like the expensive part of it
17:14 < danielbruno> maybe the tshirts it's not necessary to do the party
17:15 < aeperezt> danielbruno, I agree
17:15 < aeperezt> Banners are good because they don't have any
17:15 < danielbruno> and can use in other events
17:16 < aeperezt> right
17:16 < cwickert> +1
17:16 < cwickert> not sure about the t-shirts either
17:16 < cwickert> I think they look awesome but are expensive
17:16 < cwickert> if we do shirts, I would rather prefer to do more in order to get a better price
17:17 < cwickert> and the shirts can be used later, too
17:17 < danielbruno> the tshirts are more than 50%
17:17 < cwickert> danielbruno: actually they are more like 2/3 of the total
17:17 < cwickert> ok, suggestions?
17:18 < aeperezt> cwickert, I like to do tshirts for peru later and not a release party specific more general ones
17:18 < danielbruno> +1
17:18 < aeperezt> even do they look great
17:18 < danielbruno> we can cut the thisrts
17:18 < cwickert> aeperezt: they are not release party specific
17:18 < aeperezt> cwickert, this link is on the ticket http://www.bluecotton.com/share_display.html?u=1&s=1096155&x=1&r=9.16200180844502
17:18 < danielbruno> and approve the rest ones
17:19 < cwickert> ok, so should we approve everything but the shirts and tell them too look for an opportunity to make more shirts for a better price?
17:19 < aeperezt> cwickert, yes
17:19 < maktrix> if you have had produced generic tshirts for FUDCon LATAM and have some left, can give her.
17:19 < aeperezt> I think it could be a good star as new ambassador
17:20 < aeperezt> maktrix, I don't have them and shipment could be expensive
17:20 < nb> cwickert, i agree
17:20 < cwickert> aeperezt: are you from Peru?
17:20 < aeperezt> cwickert, I'm from Panama
17:20 < cwickert> ah
17:20 < danielbruno> may be we can do as in the past, taking advantage of material of the fudcon latam
17:20 < cwickert> danielbruno: +1
17:21 < cwickert> ok, here is my suggestion:
17:21 < cwickert> 1: approve everything but the shirts
17:21 < cwickert> 2. tell them to not make event specific shirts
17:21 < cwickert> 2. try to get a bigger batch of shirts and have them distributed at FUDCon LATAM
17:21 < cwickert> 3 was missing :)
17:22 < danielbruno> it's ok to me
17:22 < cwickert> +1
17:22 < aeperezt> cwickert, +1, Maybe we can get some made and bring them to Fudcon Latam to give to all countries
17:22 < danielbruno> +1
17:22 < aeperezt> cwickert, +1
17:22 < cwickert> aeperezt: do you think we need shirts for Peru only?
17:22 < cwickert> I like the local shirts
17:23 < cwickert> nb: ping
17:23 < aeperezt> cwickert, Peru need some shirts and more promo material, more stickers and stuff they have been working for years and never got any help from Fedora
17:24 < nb> +1
17:24 < nb> sorry, i was afk for a sec
17:24 < aeperezt> but they also need to learn that you don't give away all tshirts on one event
17:24 < cwickert> #agreed: #301 is approved but not the shirts. FAmSCo does not like spending money on shirts only for a single event. Instead, we should try to look into a bigger batch of shirts for Peru to get a better price
17:25 < cwickert> aeperezt: ack
17:25 < cwickert> but I think there is no reason to not have shirts for Peru, the designs look awesome
17:25 < aeperezt> cwickert, yes
17:25 < cwickert> ok, I'll update the tickets later
17:25 < aeperezt> cwickert, I agree
17:25 < cwickert> s/tickets/ticket
17:27 < cwickert> ok, suggestions for other tickets to discuss?
17:29 < danielbruno> hmm.. i think not
17:29 < cwickert> ok, then we should look into old ones and clean up trac
17:30 < cwickert> I already found some that can be closed, but they are not on the agenda
17:30 < cwickert> ok, lets just quickly go through the list
17:30 < aeperezt> ok
17:30 < cwickert> #topic Swag shipping improvements
17:31 < cwickert> .famsco 250
17:31 < cwickert> this is a sad one
17:31 < cwickert> people complain that shipping swag is cumbersome
17:31 < cwickert> but when asaked for feedback nobody responded
17:31 < cwickert> if people don't tell us what is wrong, there is not much we can fix
17:32 <@zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/250
17:32 < cwickert> so I wonder are people just lazy or did we do something wrong?
17:32  * cwickert gives people a little time to read the ticket
17:34 < cwickert> thoughts?
17:34 < cwickert> should we bring this up in the regional meetings one more time?
17:35 < aeperezt> cwickert, I could be and issue that every region has to work on.
17:35 < cwickert> aeperezt: yes, but nobody does :(
17:35 < cwickert> AFAICS there are no problems in EMEA and NA
17:35 < cwickert> nb: from your POV everything is ok, right?
17:36 < nb> yeah
17:36 < aeperezt> cwickert, I can speak for latam it to complex shipment to expensive so local production is better, but some countries like Panama have issue to produce mass media
17:36 < nb> NA is fine
17:36 < aeperezt> but we had advantage to bring producs from US
17:37 < cwickert> ok, good to know
17:37 < aeperezt> other countries could be different
17:37 < nb> we have 2k case badges to ship to LATAM but need to know where eto send to
17:37 < aeperezt> I think we talk about it some time ago
17:37 < cwickert> nb: did you send the ones for EMEA?
17:38 < aeperezt> nb, I can give you m us address so you can send the Panama part
17:38 < danielbruno> i agree with aeperezt
17:38  * inode0 would suggest sending them to FUDCon
17:38 < nb> cwickert, yeah, they just went out friday
17:38 < aeperezt> I think we can figured out some other countries in central america
17:38 < cwickert> aeperezt: you either need to send them to other contries or distribute them at FUDcon
17:38 < cwickert> nb: you have a tracking link?
17:38 < aeperezt> they orher option is to send them to FUDcon
17:39 < cwickert> danielbruno, aeperezt: are both of you attending FUDCon?
17:39 < aeperezt> think so
17:39 < nb> cwickert, i can get one, although i think it will just show when it leaves the US
17:39 < danielbruno> me too
17:39 < cwickert> nb: ok
17:39 < danielbruno> i'm waiting for the approvation of the ticket
17:39 < danielbruno> maybe a good strategy would be to produce in China
17:39 < aeperezt> same here
17:40 < danielbruno> it is realistic?
17:40 < cwickert> danielbruno, aeperezt: ok, how about the two of you have a "swag bazaar" session at FUDCon to distribute swag?
17:40 < cwickert> and another one about improving the shipping processes
17:40 < aeperezt> cwickert, ok
17:41 < cwickert> or say do both of this in one session
17:41  * cwickert thinks that every FUDCon should have a swag bazaar
17:41 < danielbruno> it's a good idea
17:41 < aeperezt> cwickert, +1
17:41 < danielbruno> we have done it in the last 3 fudcons
17:42 < cwickert> #action danielbruno and aeperezt to host a "swag bazaar" at FUDCon and and a session about swag shipping improvements
17:42 < cwickert> #action bckurera to discuss the situation in APAC in the next regional meeting
17:42 < cwickert> as bckurera is not here, we give him a lot of homework :)
17:42 < cwickert> ok, anything more on this?
17:43 < danielbruno> lets to the next topic
17:43 < cwickert> aeperezt, danielbruno: is there a way to speed up your fuding tickets for FUDCon? perhaps you should add a note that you are FAmSCo members now and need to go there
17:44 < cwickert> #topic Budget and reimbursement issues
17:44 < cwickert> .famsco 251
17:44 <@zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/251
17:44 < cwickert> this is another sad story
17:44 < aeperezt> cwickert, not sure on that will do
17:44 < cwickert> no feedback from the Red Hat's budget manager for months
17:44 < cwickert> we still don't have the numbers of last year
17:44 < cwickert> so there is not much we can do
17:45 < cwickert> there are things going on in RH that are outside our realm
17:45 < nb> there are changes getting ready to happen
17:45 < cwickert> nb: like when?
17:45 < nb> not sure how much is public, so i'll refrain from mentioning further
17:45 < nb> cwickert, will pm, although i think you already know what i know
17:46 < cwickert> I think what we can say by now is:
17:46 < cwickert> RH is restructuring their community team
17:47 < cwickert> ok, I suggest to remove the "meeting keyword" from this ticket
17:47 < cwickert> until there actually is something to do for us
17:47 < aeperezt> cwickert, right
17:48 < cwickert> #action cwickert to nag budget owner to get the numbers of 2011 and remove the 'meeting' keyword from #251 until there is something to discuss
17:49 < cwickert> #topic New trademark guidelines and their impact on the ambassadors swag production
17:50 < cwickert> .famsco 264
17:50 <@zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/264
17:50 < cwickert> is meetbot still here?
17:50 < nb> it forgets about meetings when it dies and comes back
17:50 < nb> we'll have to file an infra ticket with the log from the meeting
17:50 < nb> and we can add it to the meetbot site
17:51 < nb> go ahead and use meetbot syntax for #action and stuff, it will reprocess the log later
17:51 < cwickert> ok
17:51 < cwickert> this sucks btw :)
17:51 < cwickert> back to #264
17:51 < nb> yeah i know
17:51 < cwickert> I haven't heard back from Robyn about the new guidelines yet
17:52 < cwickert> and I think the impact on swag production is not that big
17:52 < cwickert> basically the new guidelines mean that we have to have all swag items approved
17:52 < nb> the first time we do them
17:52 < nb> reorders don't i think?
17:52 < cwickert> right
17:53 < cwickert> unless they were approved already
17:53 < cwickert> but we need to track all orders
17:53 < nb> yeah
17:53 < aeperezt> cwickert, approved by who?
17:53 < nb> aeperezt, spot
17:53 < nb> aka fedora legal
17:53 < cwickert> nope
17:53 < cwickert> the board
17:53  * inode0 recalls that the same as nb
17:53 < cwickert> legal grants the board the permission to aprove things IIRC
17:54 < cwickert> ok, how about we all have to read this again and if there are more questions, we should add them till next week?
17:54 < nb> yes, legal
17:54 < nb>  If a Fedora Ambassador wishes to produce Non-Software Promotion Goods of a New Type or a New Design, they must first receive approval for the New Type or Design from Fedora Legal. For details on how to request approval, see User:Spot/New_Type_Or_Design_Approval_Process.
17:54 < nb> afaik
17:54 < aeperezt> many in latam do their swag and that is like the Peru shirts
17:54 < nb> Ambassador opens a <ticket> with Fedora Legal. Fedora Legal will review and respond within 2 business days. If approved, it will be added to the Pre-Approved Type list. If rejected, explanation will be provided and the ambassador can appeal to the Fedora Board. All new approved types will be reported to the Fedora Board.
17:55 < aeperezt> if they do swags with no Fedora budget how do you control that?
17:55 < cwickert> nb: I think this is where it is stuck
17:55 < cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Spot/New_Type_Or_Design_Approval_Process is not every elaborate yet
17:55 < nb> i got approval for the splatter t-shirt design and it was really quick
17:55 < nb> i just emailed legal@fpo and spot said ok
17:56 < cwickert> I think this doesn't fly
17:56 < cwickert> but anyway
17:56 < cwickert> I mean, spot is a good guy, but having all this on only his shoulders sucks
17:56 < nb> yeah
17:56  * nb agrees
17:56 < aeperezt> cwickert, yeah
17:57 < cwickert> ok, this is a valid concern. if you have more, add them to the ticket please
17:57 < cwickert> #action all FAmSCo members to revisit #264 and add further concerns or questions to the ticket
17:58 < cwickert> #topic Sponsoring event attendees
17:58 < cwickert> .famsco 265
17:58 <@zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/265
17:58  * bckurera Hello folks got late due to a power cut, sorry about it 
17:58 < cwickert> bckurera: you already got some homework :P
17:58 < cwickert> you can read it later in the meeting minutes (once we have them)
17:59 < cwickert> again, I suggest that everybody reads this till next week
17:59 < cwickert> inode0 made a good proposal
17:59 < cwickert> and I think it would also help us with FUDCon LATAM
17:59 < cwickert> but it might already be too late for this one
17:59 < bckurera> cwickert: yeah one homework is done and waiting for feedback :)
18:01 < cwickert> any suggestions about #265? discuss it now or not?
18:02  * nb has to mostly
18:02  * nb has to mostly leave, dr appt in 45mins and have to get ready and stuff
18:02 < nb> i'll look in on this window occasionally in a few minutes
18:03 < cwickert> guys, are you still there?=
18:03 < aeperezt> es
18:03 < aeperezt> yes
18:03 < cwickert> I don't think it makes sense to discuss tickets now that nobody has read
18:03  * danielbruno here
18:03 < aeperezt> cwickert, yes
18:04 < cwickert> so I suggest we all read the ticket from https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9 so we can discuss them again next week
18:04 < cwickert> ok?
18:04 < cwickert> s/ticket/tickets
18:04 < aeperezt> ok
18:04 < cwickert> #action all FAmSCo members to read through the open tickets so wer can work effectively
18:04 < cwickert> #topic FAmSCo goals
18:04 < cwickert> ok, now to our homework from last week
18:05 < cwickert> I asked all of you to think about his goals for this FAmSCo term
18:05 < cwickert> what do you want to achieve in FAmSCo?
18:05 < cwickert> AFAICS only Jiri and me sent out a mail
18:05 < cwickert> and I have to admit I sent out mine just 10 minutes before the meeting
18:05 < bckurera> ok
18:06 < cwickert> did anybody else send out one and I overlooked it?
18:06 < aeperezt> cwickert, well I think reestablishing latam meeting is a goal for me, specially since there are not responsive to emails
18:07 < bckurera> is daily business over?
18:07 < bckurera> I have some doubts to get cleared as well
18:07 < bckurera> this is regarding FAD and related with funding
18:07 < cwickert> ok, then please send a mail to the ambassadors list. and to the latam list, too because this is where you'll probably find people to help you
18:07 < cwickert> that was for aeperezt
18:07 < cwickert> bckurera: can we first stick to one topic?
18:08 < bckurera> sure after that then :)
18:08 < cwickert> nb, bckurera, danielbruno, aeperezt: what about your goals?
18:08 < danielbruno> my main goal is is to make the ambassadors have goals in order to work
18:09 < cwickert> well, I think we need to lead by example
18:09 < cwickert> we need to have our own goals and work on them
18:09 < cwickert> if we don't do our homework, we cannot expect anybody else to follow us
18:09 < bckurera> i ll complete this within this week, as mentioned a better way of managing swags in APAC
18:09 < danielbruno> as a mentor last year, I saw  an increase in the number of registered, but the number of collaboration is not the same
18:09 < cwickert> this is why I want all of us to send their goals to the list
18:10 < aeperezt> cwickert, we started last week with the meting and the emails on latam list with no responses
18:10 < aeperezt> even do we mark the subjects about budget something I thought many people will be interested on
18:11 < danielbruno> I have working specifically with those that I helped in the process to get something to do
18:11 < cwickert> danielbruno, aeperezt: you need to start talking. discuss this on the list and then hopefully people will join
18:11 < danielbruno> and not only a signature in their emails
18:11 < cwickert> blog about it
18:11 < aeperezt> cwickert, yes
18:11 < cwickert> spread the word on FB and Google+
18:12 < cwickert> it is crucial that you make noise :)
18:12 < cwickert> as much noise as possible
18:12 < bckurera> cwickert understood
18:12 < aeperezt> cwickert, +1
18:12 < cwickert> ok
18:12 < danielbruno> I've been encouraging many new ambassadors to do it
18:13 < maktrix> use the @fedora twitter account too, lot's people are following
18:13 < danielbruno> as a way to feel the work
18:13 < cwickert> danielbruno: don't encourage people, do it yourself. we need to start ourselves if we want people to follow us :)
18:13 < aeperezt> think we need mentors to push about this
18:13 < aeperezt> with new ambassadors
18:13 < cwickert> #action those FAmSCo members who have not yet sent out a mail about their F18 goals, do it NOW.
18:14 < aeperezt> none show for the last meting and regional meting are part of been ambassadors
18:14 < cwickert> #action all FAmSCo members: Make. Some. Noise. Speak about your goals, blog about them, spread the word, use twitter, FB and G+
18:15 < cwickert> aeperezt: don't expect it to change soon. just run your meetings, every week, even if there are only 2 people. it will take some time but people will join you I am sure
18:15 < cwickert> shaiton: do you know if we have pinglists for the LATAM ambassadors?
18:15 < aeperezt> cwickert, yes I think that will happen
18:17 < cwickert> aeperezt: get in contact with shaiton, he can tell you how pinglists work and how to setup automatic reminders
18:17 < cwickert> ok, I think that's all for our goals
18:17 < aeperezt> cwickert, thanks I wull
18:17 < cwickert> not on to bckurera
18:18 < bckurera> not or now?
18:18 < cwickert> #topic Funding Request for FAD Padang
18:18 < cwickert> bckurera: your turn
18:18 < danielbruno> the brazilian team are planning to schedule a meeting
18:18 < bckurera> ok thanks
18:18 < bckurera> The reason behind FAD Padang is
18:19 < bckurera> the fedora contributors get together and run a FAD and same time there will be an event for non-fedora contributors as well
18:19 < danielbruno> i'm thinking of unifying with the latam meeting
18:19 < bckurera> however the ticket (funding request) was approved by the local community
18:19 < danielbruno> interests are the same, and it is better to add more people at meetings
18:19 < bckurera> ticket #27 and #30
18:20 < aeperezt> danielbruno, it could be a good Idea the only issue could be the language barrier
18:20 < bckurera> however if it is a FAD shall we need to contact FPL for the funding approval, since the budget is out of FAm funds?
18:21 < cwickert> hold on please
18:21 < danielbruno> aeperezt, i think that is easy to us (brazilian) to understand spanish
18:21 < cwickert> guys!
18:21 < cwickert> what are we talking about now`?
18:21 < aeperezt> danielbruno, if so ok
18:21 < cwickert> can we please stick to one topic?
18:22 < cwickert> danielbruno, aeperezt: I appreciate you want to work on the LATAM meetings, but we already discussed that and moved on to the next topic. please figure out the details in a private conversation
18:22 < cwickert> ok. now back to bckurera and the FAD
18:23 < danielbruno> ok :)
18:23 < cwickert> bckurera: I have a few questions
18:23 < cwickert> 1. What non-fedora event?
18:23 < cwickert> 2. about what budget are we talking about?
18:24 < bckurera> 1. it is not a non-fedora but non-fedora contributors, that means the public
18:24 < cwickert> ok
18:24 < cwickert> where is the wiki page for this event?
18:24 < bckurera> 2. Since it is a FAD should it belongs to Fedora Premier Events budget?
18:25 < cwickert> hold on please
18:25 < cwickert> there is a ticket about this
18:25 < bckurera> there was a issue at the last APAC meeting, so I want some clarification
18:25 < cwickert> and we cannot give us the clarification if you don't provide more details :)
18:25 < bckurera> in fedora-apac trac #27 and #30
18:25 < cwickert> a link please
18:25 < bckurera> wait
18:26 < maktrix> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/27
18:26 < bckurera> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/27
18:26 < bckurera> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-apac/ticket/30
18:26 < bckurera> thanks matrix
18:26 < bckurera> sorry, thanks maktrix :)
18:27 < maktrix> :) you are welcome, assisting you as a sidekick :P
18:27 < cwickert> ok
18:27 < cwickert> so let me ask you: what is the specific goal for this FAD?
18:27 < cwickert> I mean: what is needed to make you think "this was a success, we achieved our goal"?
18:28 < bckurera> cwickert AFAIK They need to have some fedora activities and spread the fedora in Indonesia
18:29 < bckurera> since the planning they are keep adding some activities to make it align with the definition of the FAD
18:29 < cwickert> I don't think so
18:30 < cwickert> a FAD is something where you can say: "Ok, we are done, we reached our goal"
18:30 < cwickert> but you can never say this about spreading Fedora :)
18:30 < cwickert> because you can always improve
18:30 < cwickert> a topic for a FAD would be "I want to get this package into Fedora"
18:30 < cwickert> you see the difference?
18:31 < bckurera> yeah I know, they have some activities as well
18:31 < bckurera> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Padang_2012#Schedule
18:31 < cwickert> so, and what of these activities is worth a FAD?
18:31 < cwickert> tell me one that has a clear goal
18:32 < danielbruno> guys i need to get away for 10 min
18:32 < bckurera> cwickert: according to their structure it is not about activities they have some intro to fedora as well
18:32 < cwickert> bckurera: but then it is not a FAD :)
18:32 < cwickert> I think the only thing that qualifies for a FAD is "Planning future events and media outreach"
18:32 < cwickert> and only if you are really able to discuss all the events for a year
18:33 < maktrix> bckurera: I remeber that they said they would do someting realted with Fedora-Id Server
18:33 < cwickert> means, when you are done, you have a list of events where you want to be present and event owners for every event
18:33 < bckurera> cwickert: I think we need to be more clear about the definition of the FAD make FAms aware of this
18:33 < cwickert> bckurera: I am not saying all this to bother you with the definition of the word "FAD"
18:34 < cwickert> the reason why I am explaining all this is that I would like all of us not to think of it as a FAD
18:34 < bckurera> yes maktrix it is on the schedule I noted above but at the other hand there are some speeches as well
18:34 < cwickert> because if it is a FAD, then the funding is way more complicated
18:35 < cwickert> the funding process for a FAD is pretty much messed up, see https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/296
18:35 < cwickert> we need to work on that one, too
18:35 < bckurera> cwickert: It is like a FAD with fedora activities PLUS an event with some talks about fedora (like intro)
18:36 < bckurera> that is what I understood !
18:36 < aeperezt> cwickert, after reading all about this event, it looks is not a FAD
18:36 < aeperezt> more like an promotional event
18:37 < cwickert> bckurera: ok, lets not argue about a word here, I am just trying to explain why it is better for you to not call it a FAd
18:37 < cwickert> or better for us to not treat is as a FAD
18:37 < cwickert> ok?
18:37 < bckurera> cwickert you mean treat is like a fedora event rather a FAD?
18:38 < cwickert> yes
18:38 < cwickert> because if we call it a FAD it becomes a premier event
18:38 < cwickert> and then we depend on the "budget owner"
18:38 < cwickert> this is Harish for APAC
18:38 < cwickert> and I don't want to wait for Harish
18:38 < cwickert> because this will slow us down too much
18:38 < cwickert> understood?
18:39 < bckurera> cwickert that is a hard decision I suppose, I need to discuss with them, can we improve this and support them to host a FAD?
18:39 < cwickert> I don't care how you call it, I just want *us* to not call it a FUD
18:39 < cwickert> erm, FAD :)
18:40 < maktrix> bckurera: why not suggest them to rename it something else, instead of FAD.
18:40 < cwickert> bckurera: you can call it a FAD, you can announce it as FAD, but FAmSCo should not treat it as a FAD
18:40 < cwickert> unless you really want to depend on Harish
18:40 < cwickert> bckurera: ok?
18:40 < bckurera> cwickert ok
18:41 < cwickert> ok, great :)
18:41 < bckurera> I ll discuss this and let them know
18:41 < bckurera> may be they can improve right?
18:41 < cwickert> now what is your question about this FAD?
18:41 < cwickert> bckurera: that is not important
18:41 < cwickert> it is not important how it is called, you can continue to call it FAD
18:41 < cwickert> you can also call it foobar, I don't care :)
18:42 < cwickert> all I care about is how *we* treat it
18:42 < bckurera> ok that sounds good
18:42 < cwickert> ok, so are there any problems with this FAD?
18:42 < bckurera> but we need to have more FADs(stand ones) in APAC
18:42 < bckurera> so we need to encourage them with support I suppose
18:42 < cwickert> lets just say "we need more events" :)
18:43 < bckurera> cwickert I ll convey this to id-organizers and update next time
18:43 < cwickert> bckurera: is there anything still unclear about this event?
18:44 < bckurera> It is clear, lets move it took a long time :)
18:44 < cwickert> well, you said you had questions about the event?!
18:44 < cwickert> I mean, if there was nothing for FAmSCo, why are we talking about it now?
18:44 < bckurera> We discussed it
18:45 < cwickert> we have two tickets, one is USD 216 and the other is 226
18:45 < cwickert> I think this is reasonable and we can approve it
18:45 < cwickert> or we don't need to approve it as FAmSCo but just trust the APAC community
18:46 < bckurera> Yes But I need to find out how it is going since its name is FAD
18:46 < cwickert> again, the name does not matter
18:46 < bckurera> Tickets are already approved by the APAC community
18:47 < cwickert> you can call it a FAD, you can advertise it as a FAD, but we as FAmSCo should not treat it as FAD, that's all
18:47  * danielbruno is back
18:47 < inode0> !
18:47 < cwickert> bckurera: officially, the APAC community cannot approve the ticket until we don't have rules for approval. but given that it is not a large amount of money we just rubberstamp it
18:47 < cwickert> ok?
18:48 < cwickert> bckurera: do you understand or not?
18:48 < bckurera> cwickert yes, still we are waiting for guidelines, but it is a small amount. ok
18:48 < cwickert> right
18:49 < cwickert> theoretically we first need to fix #281 and then we can delegate it to the APAC community
18:49 < cwickert> but given that the amount is reasonable and we discussed it just now, we just approve it. problem solved.
18:49 < cwickert> inode0: your turn
18:49 < inode0> In the future to just avoid confusion please call FADs FADs though. Then we know where to go for funding.
18:50 < inode0> EOF
18:50 < bckurera> inode0 +1
18:50 < cwickert> -1
18:51 < cwickert> inode0: for a FAD you need to go to the "budget owner" and the budget owner for APAC is unresponsive and other regions don't even have one
18:51 < bckurera> I think before deciding it is good getting the approval for a FAD, then there is no confusions
18:52 < inode0> cwickert: if you want a premier event then you need to get it approved by the budget owners for premiere events.
18:52 < inode0> Feel free to call anything just an event as ask for funding here.
18:52 < cwickert> inode0: so, who is the budget owner for EMEA?
18:52 < cwickert> inode0: exactly
18:52 < cwickert> until we have fixed the funding process for FADs, just don't call your event a FAD :)
18:53 < bckurera> cwickert that is good to mention :)
18:53 < cwickert> #action cwickert to update #281 with the relevant links about the current broken FAD funding process
18:53 < cwickert> ok, I think that's all
18:53 < cwickert> anything else?
18:54 < bckurera> #296 is same
18:54 < cwickert> nb: still there? can you file a ticket at infra about the meeting logs?
18:54 < cwickert> #undo
18:54 < cwickert> #action cwickert to update #296 with the relevant links about the current broken FAD funding process
18:54 < cwickert> bckurera: right, that's the ticket I meant, thanks
18:55 < bckurera> ok we need to consider this soon, before more confusion
18:55 < bckurera> that is what I meant by the definition of FAD
18:55 < bckurera> thanks your support cwickert
18:55 < cwickert> bckurera: did you read https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD ?
18:55 < cwickert> welcome bckurera
18:56 < bckurera> almost
18:56 < cwickert> ok
18:56 < cwickert> I hereby end this meeting
18:56 < aeperezt> ok
18:56 < danielbruno> ok
18:56 < cwickert> but please, do me all a favor and do not forget your homework
18:56 < aeperezt> see you later people
18:56 < cwickert> thanks everdbody for coming
18:56 < cwickert> #endmeeting