17:00:00 <cwickert> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2012-08-06
17:00:00 <danielbruno> bckurera, hello
17:00:00 <cwickert> #meetingname famsco
17:00:00 <aeperezt> hello
17:00:00 <cwickert> #topic roll call
17:00:00 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:00:00 <danielbruno> .fas dbruno
17:00:00 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:00:00 <zodbot> danielbruno: dbruno 'Daniel Bruno' <danielbrunos@gmail.com>
17:00:00 <bckurera> .fas bckurera
17:00:00 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:00 <zodbot> bckurera: bckurera 'Buddhika Kurera' <bckurera@gmail.com>
17:00:00 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:01:00 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:01:00 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:01:00 <cwickert> ping nb
17:01:00 <cwickert> #info aeperezt, bckurera, cwickert, danielbruno, sesivany are present, herlo sent regrets, nb is late
17:02:00 <cwickert> lets wait 2 more minutes...
17:02:00 <bckurera> ok
17:05:00 <nb> hi
17:05:00 <nb> .fas nick@bebout
17:05:00 <nb> I may have to leave in about a hour
17:05:00 <zodbot> nb: nb 'Nick Bebout' <nick@bebout.net>
17:05:00 <nb> s/may/will/
17:05:00 <cwickert> #info nb is here, 6 FAmSCo members present (yay!)
17:06:00 <cwickert> ok, lets make this a quick one, I need to leave soon, too
17:06:00 <bckurera> +1
17:06:00 <cwickert> #topic Budget for FAD Rheinfelden
17:06:00 <cwickert> .famsco 302
17:06:00 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/302
17:06:00 <aeperezt> !
17:08:00 <cwickert> aeperezt: shoot
17:08:00 <bckurera> aeperezt feel free to speak no ! is needed :)
17:08:00 * bckurera remember we agreed so
17:09:00 <aeperezt> this for a FAD I think we should not spend time on it, it is not a Famsco matter
17:09:00 <aeperezt> eof
17:09:00 <bckurera> I have commented the same on the ticket, +1
17:10:00 <cwickert> I disagree and I have just commented on the ticket
17:10:00 <cwickert> 1. The FAD funding process is broken
17:10:00 <sesivany> aeperezt: yeah, but it's still a lot of money, we should at least have a look at it and decide.
17:10:00 <cwickert> 2. We have no budget owner here in EMEA
17:10:00 <cwickert> 3. I think we should use the regional support budget because this event is for planing the EMEA events
17:11:00 <cwickert> so we can clearly attibute it to a region
17:11:00 <cwickert> does this make sense?
17:11:00 <sesivany> for me yes
17:12:00 <cwickert> aeperezt: as long as we have not ratified the guideline who is to approve up to what limit, we should deal with it in FAmSCo
17:12:00 <danielbruno> for me too
17:12:00 <nb> i think it should be out of premier events like FAD's usually are
17:12:00 <nb> but +1 to approve
17:12:00 <cwickert> nb: who has the premier events budget?
17:12:00 <aeperezt> It make sense
17:13:00 <danielbruno> i think that we need to support our community as we can (with sense)
17:13:00 <nb> suehle i think
17:13:00 <cwickert> I don't think she is working yet
17:13:00 <cwickert> I mean, really working, she is still cleaning up the mess from last year
17:13:00 <sesivany> cwickert: she is, I talked to her today
17:14:00 <cwickert> so, what should we do? assign the ticket to her?
17:14:00 <cwickert> hold on, phone
17:15:00 <bckurera> cwickert : is there any discussion happen at EMEA meeting?
17:16:00 <nb> how about: Approve it, and we will get with suehle about if premier events will pay or if regional support will
17:17:00 <sesivany> nb: that sounds reasonable.
17:17:00 * aeperezt just saying, if the FAD process is broken, can we fixed, or what do we need to do to fixed, anything we could do to have a budged owner on EMEA and all regions where the is not
17:17:00 <cwickert> re
17:18:00 <cwickert> ok, lets just deal with this ticket for now and not with FAD funding or premier events
17:18:00 <cwickert> for this particular ticket I suggest to approve the hotel for now and ask the event owner to give us an estimation of the other items
17:19:00 <cwickert> I would like to have one budget similar to the LinuxTag ticket
17:19:00 <cwickert> one table with all costs
17:19:00 <cwickert> ok?
17:19:00 <sesivany> +1
17:19:00 <danielbruno> +1
17:19:00 <aeperezt> +1
17:19:00 <nb> +1
17:20:00 <cwickert> +1
17:20:00 <bckurera> +1
17:20:00 <cwickert> #agreed #302 is approved. For now only the hotel, the rest will be approved once we have a budget
17:20:00 <cwickert> #action cwickert to update #302
17:21:00 <cwickert> #topic Fedora metal pins
17:21:00 <cwickert> .famsco 307
17:21:00 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/307
17:21:00 <nb> EMEA meeting should approve this
17:22:00 <cwickert> argh
17:22:00 <bckurera> I think since it is related with EMEA they can discuss this
17:22:00 <cwickert> I agree, but as long as we have not ratfied #281, we should continue in FAmSCo
17:23:00 <bckurera> but the amount is EUR 750, so I think we better handle this
17:24:00 <cwickert> for the record, here is what it will look like: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/raw-attachment/ticket/307/f_0812_pin_vec_1.pdf
17:24:00 <cwickert> I lets approve this and carry on
17:24:00 <sesivany> +1 for approving
17:24:00 <aeperezt> +1
17:24:00 <bckurera> +1
17:24:00 <danielbruno> +1
17:25:00 <cwickert> +1
17:25:00 <cwickert> #agreed #307 is approved
17:26:00 <cwickert> ok, suggestions what ticket we should discuss next?
17:26:00 <cwickert> #281 and #296 seem the most important ones
17:26:00 <cwickert> lets start with 296
17:26:00 <cwickert> #topic Review of process for FADs and such Premier Events
17:26:00 <cwickert> .famsco 296
17:26:00 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/296
17:27:00 <bckurera> Yeah that is better
17:27:00 <cwickert> nb: so you say suehle is ready to deal with this?
17:27:00 <nb> cwickert, i can ask her
17:28:00 <cwickert> where was the wiki page about the budget owners?
17:28:00 <nb> #proposal defer 296 to next week, nb will get with suehle
17:28:00 <cwickert> hold on please
17:28:00 <nb> ok
17:29:00 <cwickert> there was a wiki page that stated that the budget for premier Fedora events is up to the budget owners and not to FAmSCo
17:29:00 <cwickert> does anybody know what page this was?
17:29:00 <cwickert> I don't see it on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Premier_Fedora_Events or http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD and not on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_organize_a_FAD either
17:29:00 <danielbruno> no.. i'm looking for
17:31:00 <bckurera> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_organize_a_FAD#Budget
17:31:00 <bckurera> what about this?
17:31:00 <bckurera> Comm Arch is the POC
17:31:00 <cwickert> bckurera: no, that's not it
17:32:00 <cwickert> it explictly mentioned the "budget owner"
17:33:00 <cwickert> nb: do you know more about budget for premier Fedora events?
17:33:00 <cwickert> rbergeron: how is budget for premier Fedora events handled?
17:34:00 <sesivany> I think it's approved by OSAS.
17:34:00 <sesivany> it means by suehle
17:34:00 <cwickert> this has not yet happened
17:34:00 <cwickert> how has it been handled in the past?
17:34:00 <bckurera> earlier it was FAmSCo who approved FAD budget
17:34:00 <nb> cwickert, all i know is usually it is budget owner
17:35:00 <nb> which i would assume would be OSAS/Ruth Suehle now
17:35:00 <cwickert> ok, this sucks
17:35:00 <cwickert> we are trying to fix a process and we don't even know what it looks like :(
17:35:00 * nb thinks we should invite suehle to our meeting next week
17:35:00 <sesivany> when I asked for budget for LinuxCon EMEA, it ended up in OSAS.
17:35:00 <cwickert> +1
17:36:00 <danielbruno> nb, +1
17:36:00 <cwickert> sesivany: but why? is LinuxCon a premier Fedora event?
17:36:00 <cwickert> ok, I think we definitely need a meeting with rbergeron and suehle
17:36:00 <aeperezt> nb, +1
17:36:00 <danielbruno> we need to clarify it
17:36:00 <sesivany> cwickert: it's on the same list as LinuxTag.
17:36:00 <cwickert> suggestion defer and invite the two of them to the next meeting
17:37:00 <cwickert> sesivany: and LinuxTag is not a premier event, either
17:37:00 <cwickert> only FADs and FUDCons are
17:37:00 <aeperezt> cwickert, +1
17:37:00 <bckurera> i think still it is good FAmSCo approve or interfere with the FAD or premier events
17:37:00 <sesivany> cwickert: ok then, I'm a bit confused. I thought it's FAD+FUDcon+big events.
17:38:00 <cwickert> I am not only "a little" confused but totally
17:38:00 <cwickert> the more I look into this, the more broken it seems
17:38:00 <sesivany> cwickert: then I might not be OSAS :)
17:38:00 <cwickert> things fell apart when Max left
17:38:00 <cwickert> and the documentation is a mess
17:38:00 <sesivany> let's invite them to the next meeting to clear it.
17:38:00 <bckurera> cwickert it was FAmSCo who approved FAD budget earlier
17:38:00 <cwickert> ok
17:39:00 <cwickert> bckurera: you mean FAD Padong?
17:39:00 <cwickert> we just approved this one because we did not want to mess with the broken premier events process
17:39:00 <bckurera> not clearly remember everything :)
17:39:00 <cwickert> then lets just leave it at this
17:40:00 <cwickert> #info we don't have sufficient information how funding for premier events was handled in the past, so we cannot make a decision
17:41:00 <cwickert> #info we'll defer #296 till next week and invite rbergeron and suehle to our meeting
17:41:00 <cwickert> #topiv Budget review guidelines
17:41:00 <cwickert> .famsco 281
17:41:00 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/281
17:41:00 <cwickert> ok, we are facing the same problem there
17:41:00 <cwickert> more or less
17:42:00 <cwickert> should we discuss this with suehle and rbergeron, too?
17:42:00 <danielbruno> yeah
17:42:00 <danielbruno> we can discuss it better later with more information
17:43:00 <cwickert> ok
17:43:00 <sesivany> yes, please. I'm not sure about the note about PO. I think the limit is $2000, not $5000, but I'm not sure.
17:43:00 <cwickert> if rbergeron and suehle are busy, we should think about scheduling a special meeting on this
17:44:00 <danielbruno> +1
17:44:00 <sesivany> +1
17:44:00 <aeperezt> +1
17:44:00 <nb> +1
17:44:00 <bckurera> need a meeting +1
17:44:00 <cwickert> ok
17:45:00 <cwickert> #action schedule the  "lets clear all budget issues once and for all meeting"
17:45:00 <cwickert> this also applies to #279
17:45:00 <cwickert> #topic Discuss Budget Allocation for FY2012
17:45:00 <cwickert> .famsco 279
17:45:00 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/279
17:46:00 <danielbruno> who will invite suhele and rbergeron and schedule the new meeting?
17:46:00 <cwickert> danielbruno: me
17:46:00 <cwickert> #undo
17:46:00 <cwickert> doesn't seem to work...
17:46:00 <cwickert> #action cwickert to schedule the  "lets clear all budget issues once and for all meeting"
17:47:00 <cwickert> back to 279
17:47:00 <cwickert> I think we can only discuss the budget allocation if we have reliable numbers for the last years
17:47:00 <cwickert> and given the mess we had in 2011, I doubt we will ever have :(
17:47:00 <cwickert> ideas?
17:48:00 <bckurera> Will ask for budget from every region for Q3 Q4
17:49:00 <sesivany> I'd discuss this with rbergero and suehle, too.
17:49:00 <cwickert> ok, could we just go through our regional trac instances?
17:49:00 <cwickert> sesivany: ok, I think *if* somebody has figures, then it's rbergeron
17:50:00 <cwickert> #action discuss budget allocation as part of the overall budget meeting
17:50:00 <cwickert> ook, lets just leave it as this for now
17:51:00 <cwickert> I am sorry this meeting was not really productive, but I cannot change it
17:51:00 <cwickert> I mean, we need to clean up so many things
17:51:00 <cwickert> #topic Open Floor
17:51:00 <cwickert> one thing I'd like to bring up is the wiki
17:51:00 <danielbruno> i hopo that the next meeting will help us a lot to have more productive meetings
17:51:00 <danielbruno> *hpoe
21:13:48 * hpoe 
17:51:00 <danielbruno> ops.. hope
17:52:00 <cwickert> danielbruno: we just need to get back to things where we can actually make decisions
17:52:00 <cwickert> but for all the budget stuff we depend on others
17:52:00 <cwickert> anyway
17:52:00 <cwickert> we are having a lot of outdated info in the wiki
17:52:00 <cwickert> our previous FAmSCo wanted to create a lot of ambassadors SOP
17:52:00 <cwickert> SOP = standard operating procedures
17:53:00 <cwickert> and I wonder if this really worked or if we just created a lot of red tape
17:53:00 <cwickert> because a lot of the SOPs are outdated
17:53:00 <cwickert> what are we going to do about it? fix it or just nuke the content?
17:54:00 <cwickert> do these wiki pages actually add any benefit and help the ambassadors?
17:55:00 <bckurera> I think proper wiki pages do.
17:56:00 <bckurera> I think all the SOPs are not that important, we can choose important once and make them better
17:56:00 <cwickert> ok
17:56:00 <cwickert> makes sense
17:56:00 <bckurera> but always it better to have less red tapes :)
17:57:00 <cwickert> #action all FAmSCo members to look through the Ambassasors SOP pages and think which ones we need. ask in your regional meetings for help
17:57:00 <cwickert> anything else?
17:57:00 <danielbruno> i think not
17:58:00 <cwickert> ok
17:58:00 <bckurera> done for today !
17:58:00 <cwickert> #endmeeting