17:00:09 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-03-18
17:00:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 18 17:00:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:17 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:00:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:00:25 <sesivany> #topic Roll call
17:00:32 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:34 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:01:09 <sesivany> anyone up for the meeting? :)
17:02:09 <bckurera> .fas bckurera
17:02:09 <zodbot> bckurera: bckurera 'Buddhika Kurera' <bckurera@gmail.com>
17:02:23 <bckurera> hi guys !
17:02:38 <sesivany> bckurera: welcome, looks like we're just two today :)
17:02:56 <bckurera> Is that so :)
17:03:29 <sesivany> Alejandro and herlo sent regrets
17:03:40 <bckurera> Is this because Day light saving is getting away these days?
17:03:41 <sesivany> let's wait a bit longer for others.
17:04:16 <bckurera> yes will wait, I saw two regrets on the ML too
17:04:23 <sesivany> bckurera: the time change in Europe is on March 30th. But it has taken place in the US.
17:04:51 <bckurera> ok then, just a guess :)
17:08:06 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:08:06 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:08:22 <sesivany> cwickert: welcome, we're at least three now.
17:08:32 <cwickert> sorry I am late
17:08:42 <cwickert> the timing hardly works with my new office
17:10:10 <sesivany> cwickert: we can just stick with the current UTC time which will mean we'll meet at 7pm CET.
17:10:28 <cwickert> not sure if this works for the others
17:10:49 <bckurera> 10 minutes and still 3 of us
17:10:52 <cwickert> It's late night then for bckurera and tuantsa
17:10:56 <cwickert> tuanta*
17:10:59 <bckurera> may be the frequency of meetings?
17:11:19 <sesivany> cwickert: yes, it starts at midnight for tuanta, I think.
17:11:33 <bckurera> yes cwickert now it is 10:40 pm here
17:11:59 <sesivany> cwickert: if I move to Australia, I'll have the meeting at 3 am :)
17:12:00 <cwickert> bckurera: that's not late :P
17:13:02 <sesivany> should we start with some agenda even though we don't have the quorum?
17:13:11 <sesivany> at least to discuss stuff
17:13:40 <bckurera> cwickert yeah not late for a meeting anyway :)
17:13:55 <bckurera> yes it is 15 minutes pass now
17:14:14 <bckurera> we can take care of any urgent matter then
17:14:37 <sesivany> ok, the current agenda is at: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/report/9
17:14:55 <sesivany> let's start with the budget topic...
17:15:04 <cwickert> please no
17:15:15 <sesivany> why not?
17:15:27 <cwickert> because there is hardly anything we can do
17:15:40 <cwickert> why not go for the low hanging fruits first?
17:15:42 <aeperezt> hello
17:15:53 <cwickert> we have a quorum now :)
17:15:56 <sesivany> great, we have a quorum
17:15:58 <aeperezt> sorry to be late but I made it
17:16:06 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:16:06 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:16:07 <cwickert> sesivany: how about #346?
17:16:15 <sesivany> ok, let's start with the mentor approving - low hanging fruit :)
17:16:43 <sesivany> #topic Nominating Robert Mayr to become a mentor for EMEA
17:17:02 <sesivany> .famsco 346
17:17:02 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/346
17:17:20 <sesivany> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/346
17:17:21 <cwickert> +1
17:17:30 <sesivany> +1
17:17:42 <cwickert> sesivany: no need for #link these days, it will show up in the minutes automatically
17:17:51 <sesivany> cwickert: ok
17:18:05 <aeperezt> +1
17:18:11 <bckurera> ok great
17:18:19 <bckurera> +1 for this
17:18:30 <sesivany> great
17:18:43 <cwickert> #agreed Robert Mayr is to become a mentor for EMEA
17:18:51 <cwickert> please make me chair, sesivany
17:18:56 <cwickert> and the others, too
17:19:12 <sesivany> #chair cwickert aeperezt bckurera
17:19:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: aeperezt bckurera cwickert sesivany
17:19:17 <cwickert> #agreed Robert Mayr is to become a mentor for EMEA
17:19:27 <cwickert> huh?
17:19:39 <cwickert> zodbot doesn't like me
17:21:20 <sesivany> aeperezt: any progress with #289?
17:21:42 <sesivany> I'd like to close it if possible
17:21:44 <aeperezt> sesivany, no news on that from Neville
17:22:22 <sesivany> aeperezt: ok, let's leave it open for now.
17:22:30 <aeperezt> yes
17:22:44 <sesivany> I'd like to get rid of these tickets that don't belong our trac though.
17:23:04 <cwickert> +1
17:23:08 <sesivany> tuanta was on #329, but he's not here today.
17:23:48 <sesivany> cwickert: I think he mentioned somewhere that he contacted you to discuss FADs in APAC, right?
17:25:16 <cwickert> sesivany: I have no idea what you are talking about
17:25:36 <cwickert> what ticket is this related to?
17:25:45 <sesivany> nevermind, let's switch to #326
17:26:03 <sesivany> cwickert: that was just some echo, maybe he hasn't written you about it yet.
17:26:25 <sesivany> #topic F18 release party dinner award
17:26:31 <sesivany> .famsco 326
17:26:32 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/326
17:26:50 <sesivany> this is solved in EMEA, what about other regions?
17:27:11 <sesivany> there were no release parties in NA, so that's easy with them :)
17:27:32 <cwickert> sesivany: ?!
17:27:51 <cwickert> What do you mean with "solved for EMEA"?
17:27:52 <bckurera> In APAC there are lot :)
17:28:12 <bckurera> soon we need to collect report and go for it
17:28:21 <sesivany> cwickert: we picked the best release party and awarded the organizers with $80 for dinner.
17:28:33 <cwickert> I missed that
17:28:34 <sesivany> as it was decided here at FAmSCo.
17:28:43 <cwickert> did we have a deadline?
17:28:51 <sesivany> cwickert: it was done at the last meeting.
17:29:05 <cwickert> well, if you have a contest, you need to have a deadline
17:29:20 <cwickert> did we communicate the deadline to the ambassadors?
17:29:46 <cwickert> if there was something agreed on in the last meeting, why is there nothing in the ticket for 4 months?
17:29:53 <bckurera> Regions itself manage the contest as I know
17:29:55 <sesivany> cwickert: I did in EMEA, it was pretty much on regions how they handle this.
17:30:57 <cwickert> sesivany: when? I don't see anything on the mailing list
17:32:06 <sesivany> cwickert: at regional meetings, we talked about it pretty much every meeting for several months.
17:32:35 <cwickert> I'm sorry I cannot make it to the meetings
17:33:19 <sesivany> cwickert: I didn't put it the way: Hey, the world, organize a release party and you may win $80. We put it the way that we looked at parties that have taken place and awarded the best ones.
17:33:55 <sesivany> and we were waiting to the last ones to take place.
17:33:56 <cwickert> and did we announce the winners?
17:34:05 <cwickert> hold on
17:34:13 <cwickert> you said EMEA is done
17:34:16 <cwickert> who won?
17:35:17 <sesivany> cwickert: in EMEA, we picked three after all: Naples, Budapest, and Moscow. I contacted all organizers and talked about them with it. Unfortunately, Moscow team can't receive the money.
17:35:44 <cwickert> ok
17:35:55 <cwickert> next time we should make this more visible
17:36:15 <sesivany> cwickert: just to be clear, $80 was approved by FAmSCo, the other winners are covered by our "stil non-existent" budget.
17:36:15 <cwickert> means: 1) announce it in advance 2) announce the deadline 3) announce the winners
17:36:39 <bckurera> cwickert : You mean by the FAmSCo?
17:36:52 <cwickert> bckurera: yes
17:36:59 <cwickert> we have always done that in the past
17:37:01 <bckurera> or regional communities?
17:37:07 <cwickert> I don't care
17:37:13 <sesivany> cwickert: I'd like to announce them all at once, that's why I started this topic and would like to know if other regions have winners, too.
17:37:23 <cwickert> bckurera: in the past, it was FAmSCo who did it
17:37:46 <cwickert> ok, what are we doing about this ticket now?
17:37:55 <bckurera> cwickert : yes I can remember but we decided to give more power to regional communities this time :)
17:38:09 <bckurera> But I think handling it centrally would be good too
17:38:15 <cwickert> can somebody please document the EMEA winners, probably with link to the meeting minutes?
17:38:46 <cwickert> bckurera: I think first thing is you get the stuff done for APAC
17:38:51 <sesivany> cwickert: I'll do it.
17:39:01 <cwickert> lets think about how we do it for F19
17:39:20 <sesivany> cwickert: I don't think we want to do it again.
17:39:23 <cwickert> sesivany: I am a little confused here
17:39:34 <cwickert> why did the local community decide?
17:39:48 <cwickert> in the past, we *always* awarded the best release party
17:40:01 <sesivany> cwickert: I didn't find it very fortunate. I'd rather have some small present for all organizers. Something like a t-shirt or hoodie or something.
17:40:13 <cwickert> ok
17:40:30 <cwickert> in the past we just paid the winners a dinner
17:40:39 <sesivany> cwickert: I think every party is kinda achievement and we should appreciate it.
17:40:40 <bckurera> Yes we can do it since it is time to finish all release parties now
17:40:43 <cwickert> we didn't have a limit, we just picked one release party
17:41:23 <cwickert> this time I think we had a ticket in trac and talked about it more, but still we achieved less in the public perception
17:42:05 <cwickert> bckurera: I know we cannot announce the winners yet, that's why I asked you to get APAC in place
17:42:12 <cwickert> when will you be done in APAC?
17:42:21 <sesivany> as I said, I'd rather give everyone some special stuff instead of sending money just to the best ones.
17:42:49 <sesivany> aeperezt: do you have a winner in LATAM?
17:42:51 <cwickert> sesivany: agreed, but first things first
17:43:51 <cwickert> the last release party in APAC was nearly a month ago, the last in APAC was in January
17:43:56 <cwickert> I think we should have winners by now
17:43:56 <bckurera> I ll post ML and in two weeks we have a bi-weekly meeting there we can discuss this
17:44:12 <bckurera> so with in 3 to 4 weeks we can finish it
17:44:31 <cwickert> that's pretty long, but anyway...
17:44:44 <cwickert> bckurera, aeperezt: please send a reminder for event reports if people want to participate
17:44:57 <cwickert> and make sure it is discussed in the next regional meeting
17:45:08 <aeperezt> sesivany, no
17:45:21 <aeperezt> we will choose one on this week meeting
17:45:25 <cwickert> ok, what deadline do we set?
17:45:28 <aeperezt> yes
17:45:35 <bckurera> cwickert agreed it is quite long but we didnt agree on a method to evaluate, so we need to do it first but will do it
17:45:41 <aeperezt> the reports are missing that is why
17:45:51 <cwickert> then can we please set a deadline?
17:46:25 <sesivany> bckurera: can you make it in 3 weeks?
17:46:26 <bckurera> 10 days from today?
17:46:32 <cwickert> proposal: deadline for event reports is April 1st, that is 2 weeks from now
17:46:55 <cwickert> or even earlier, I don't care
17:46:59 <sesivany> aeperezt: we set a clear rule in EMEA, no reports no contest
17:47:07 <bckurera> ok will set a goal to finish it with in 3 weeks from today
17:47:20 <cwickert> not a goal, a strict deadline
17:47:20 <aeperezt> sesivany, right
17:47:23 <cwickert> and please announce it
17:47:30 <aeperezt> the sam rule here
17:47:44 <sesivany> aeperezt: if they don't bother to write a report, then just don't count them in. But first let everyone know.
17:47:47 <bckurera> since we agreed to let the communities to manage this, I ll write to ML
17:47:55 <bckurera> so we can decide there how to proceed
17:48:05 <bckurera> anyway I ll set a goal of 3 weeks to announce winners
17:48:16 <aeperezt> sesivany, right
17:48:31 <cwickert> #action bckurera and aeperezt to set a deadline for event reports and send a reminder to their local communities
17:48:40 <bckurera> and for F19 will proceed with a good plan and spread the work much as possible
17:48:53 <cwickert> #info release party winners will be announced in 3 weeks from now
17:49:00 <cwickert> does that work?
17:49:16 <sesivany> yes
17:49:57 <bckurera> yes I ll look into that, we need to have it :)
17:51:14 <sesivany> ok, meanwhile think about improvement for F19
17:52:13 <sesivany> I propose to give all organizers something special (a t-shirt or whatever). It works for EMEA because I send packages to organizers anyway, so I can just include it, but it may not work for all regions.
17:52:54 <bckurera> this good, I like your idea
17:53:16 <cwickert> +1
17:54:16 <sesivany> picking the best release party was kinda awkward people didn't seem to like it because all such efforts should be appreciated.
17:55:11 <cwickert> I think we should have FAmSCo pick the best one
17:55:54 <cwickert> if you have 5 people who run a release party and then all show up at the next regional meeting and vote for their own event, they can pretty much overpower the others
17:55:58 <sesivany> cwickert: if we go for a contest again, it's definitely better than forcing ambassadors to pick the best one among them.
17:56:18 <sesivany> cwickert: not mentioning most of them are biased because they organized one.
17:57:13 <sesivany> ok, anything else to this topic? can we move on?
17:57:55 * cwickert has to leave soonish
17:58:31 <sesivany> well, I don't have anything urget to discuss, it all pretty much hangs on others: budgets, fudcons,...
17:58:45 <sesivany> we just need to push for progress.
17:59:58 <sesivany> cwickert: if you have missed that, they will be no FUDCon APAC this year :-(
18:00:50 <sesivany> ok, let's switch to openfloor
18:00:59 <sesivany> #topic Openfloor
18:01:28 <bckurera> It is sad but no one willing to host since they want to build the community first and then need to move
18:01:37 <bckurera> so we will have one for next year for sure
18:02:04 <cwickert> sesivany: I know
18:02:13 <bckurera> and high air fare is the bottleneck
18:02:13 <sesivany> bckurera: I'm still in a talk with people from the Beijing office, but they are more interested in 2014.
18:02:39 <bckurera> sesivany : Yes all are looking for 2014
18:03:01 <sesivany> cwickert: and we still don't know if we're going to have FUDCon EMEA.
18:03:41 <sesivany> cwickert: and frankly, it's just 6 months away which is not much considering we havent even had a call for bids...
18:03:57 <cwickert> I think that depends on the global fudcon
18:04:14 <cwickert> and the last time I spoke to spot, he said it will happen
18:04:28 <sesivany> cwickert: and the global fudcon depends on the budget.
18:04:42 <cwickert> #action cwickert to nag relevant people about the global FUDCon
18:05:23 <sesivany> cwickert: I spoke with rsuehle and she says they already have an idea of Fedora's budget for FY14, she just needs to talk to FPL first to give the info to us.
18:06:23 <cwickert> I nagged rsuehle and rbergeron just yesterday, I hope they get back to us soon
18:06:48 <cwickert> until then, I'd like us to not block anything because we are unsure about the budget
18:07:06 <cwickert> let's assume we have money and approve things by default
18:07:37 <cwickert> at least if the requester has a reasonable plan
18:07:56 <sesivany> cwickert: yep, but we still have to be around the proposed budget, we can't spend three times more money just because the budget is not approved yet.
18:08:46 <cwickert> I doubt this will happen
18:09:40 <sesivany> cwickert: I consider the budget approved until I'm told otherwise :) And I behave accordingly now.
18:09:55 <cwickert> ack
18:10:00 <cwickert> that's the way to go
18:10:35 <sesivany> cwickert: Sirko's ticket was one of very fist tickets, and we werent sure, so we wanted a cross-approval, but it didn't work, so we approved it with no conditions in the end.
18:11:11 <cwickert> right
18:11:31 <cwickert> but I don't think we should approve something under the condition the FPL approves it
18:11:53 <cwickert> because we don't want to have our contributors ask the FPL for something
18:12:12 <sesivany> cwickert: I agree with you after the experience.
18:12:15 <cwickert> it's awkward for them and just too much work for the FPL
18:12:25 <cwickert> ok, anyway, we all agree
18:12:33 * cwickert needs to leave now
18:12:49 <sesivany> ok, let's end the meeting if others have nothing else to discuss
18:13:27 <sesivany> #endmeeting