17:01:05 #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-05-20 17:01:05 Meeting started Mon May 20 17:01:05 2013 UTC. The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:01:05 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:01:06 ping sesivany 17:01:10 :) 17:01:10 #meetingname famsco 17:01:10 The meeting name has been set to 'famsco' 17:01:15 .fas tuanta 17:01:16 #topic Roll call 17:01:16 tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' 17:01:22 .fas eischmann 17:01:23 sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' 17:01:45 #info cwickert sent his regrets for today's meeting. 17:02:42 ping aeperezt 17:02:45 aeperezt: ping 17:03:01 .fas aeperezt 17:03:02 aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' 17:03:47 helo 17:03:59 helo tuanta sesivany 17:04:10 just three of us so far 17:04:26 hello 17:06:09 ok, let's start... 17:06:17 #topic Announcements 17:06:22 any announcements? 17:06:33 nope at my side 17:06:59 just one thing: elections 17:07:15 hello cwickert 17:07:19 #info Fedora 20 elections have been announced. 17:07:23 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2013-May/000684.html 17:07:31 cwickert: you made it after all? 17:08:31 yes, Elections started 17:09:09 no other announcements? 17:09:11 and cwickert has started running for FAmSCo one more term 17:09:21 it 17:09:40 tuanta: yeah, we already have 3 candidates nominated. 17:09:55 but we need at least 6-7 to choose from. 17:10:19 yes, I will elect for 4 seats this term 17:10:49 I encourage you to approach the experienced and active ambassadors in your regions and ask them if they want to candidate. 17:11:40 ok, will note this 17:11:45 ok, let's move to the next topic. 17:11:54 I see some potential candidates 17:12:06 #topic T-shirts for F19 contributors 17:12:07 yes, please 17:12:18 I made the order. 17:12:23 cool 17:12:38 220 t-shirts for $952 17:13:04 then it's on time for F19 release party owners, right? 17:13:05 I can also distribute them. 17:13:24 but that's all from my part of the deal. 17:13:50 it should be a good start 17:13:51 I need someone to volunteer to gather mail adresses. 17:14:20 it's for other teams, too. Not only for ambassadors. 17:14:54 #info 220 t-shirts for F19 contributors has been ordered. The price is $952. 17:14:55 we can create a wiki page for people to input mail addresses themselves 17:15:52 tuanta: I don't think people would want to make their addresses public. 17:15:53 yes, for others teams as well. but they should define their criteria 17:16:09 tuanta, if we do it that way people may think that everyone who is on the list will get one 17:16:36 yes, good point, sesivany. it should not be public 17:16:59 for ambassadors, it's easy: who organizes a party, will get one. Other teams will have to make their own criteria. 17:17:40 I don't think we're going to have more than 40 parties. That's not a huge number. 17:18:21 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F19_release_events 17:18:25 11 so far 17:18:52 so each team should have a volunteer to list their team members who meet criteria to get one 17:19:07 that person would also collect the mail addresses 17:19:39 tuanta: right 17:20:19 ok, let's move on 17:20:26 in our Ambassadors group, I suggest we have 4 people for each region 17:20:41 is that better? 17:21:09 tuanta: to gather mail addresses? 17:21:14 yes 17:21:37 collect then give you a clean list 17:21:53 I think it's even too many, 1 would be enough. I will be like 10-15 parties in each region max. 17:23:25 that person can know almost event owners in his/her region 17:23:35 it's easier for him to collect information 17:24:34 ok, let's figure out details later. 17:24:46 ok, next please 17:24:59 I think for us it will be easy, other team will have more difficulties. 17:25:15 #topic Quarterly Budget Meeting 17:26:20 I'd like to call a meeting of all regional treasurers 17:26:39 to coordinate our budget 17:26:48 when? 17:27:10 the first FAmSCo meeting after the end of the quarter. 17:27:18 this time, it means June 3rd. 17:27:23 ok 17:27:55 I'll be here for EMEA. 17:27:56 budget wiki page should be up-to-date by that time? 17:28:06 tuanta: yes please. 17:28:19 I already invited inode0 for NA. 17:28:21 ok, I will be here for APAC 17:28:34 aeperezt should represent LATAM. 17:28:34 +1 17:28:41 sesivany, +1 17:28:53 and all other FAmSCo members 17:28:55 and I'm going to invite rsuehle who takes care of Fedora budget in OSAS. 17:29:12 that's good 17:29:47 should we invite CC holders as well? 17:30:05 #info Quarterly Heads-Up Budget meeting will be on June 3rd. 17:30:15 tuanta: yes, that's a good idea. 17:30:19 tuanta, think it could be a good idea 17:30:52 #info CC holders should be invited to the Budget meeting 17:31:05 #info people to invite for the meeting: FAmSCo members, Ruth Suehle, regional treasurers, CC holders. 17:31:19 sesivany, you will also take care of all invitations? 17:31:34 tuanta: yes 17:31:38 good 17:31:46 #action sesivany to invite people to the meeting 17:32:14 I would be out of my home city at that time. However, I think, I can still attend the meeting normally 17:32:40 tuanta: what about bckurera? 17:32:51 tuanta: the current meeting time doesnt suit him? 17:33:06 tuanta: I haven't seen him much at meetings recently. 17:33:20 we send invitations to FAmSCo list and I believe that he can receive it 17:34:17 the meetings start at the midnight here, and 10:30PM at his location 17:34:39 I think time zone is not the big issue with him 17:34:47 tuanta: is he in Sri Lanka or Singapur? 17:35:17 I think he is in Sri Lanka right now, but I am not sure 100% 17:35:53 he attended the last APAC meeting 17:36:15 ok, do you have any other topics to discuss today? 17:36:28 we're just three, so I don't want to open anything bigger. 17:37:36 if there is no more topic, we can move to OpenFloor 17:37:54 sesivany, what about sergio blog post 17:38:03 aeperezt: ah, yes. 17:38:17 #topic Segio's Blog post 17:38:33 #link http://blog.sergiodj.net/post/2013-05-16-so-long-ambassadors/ 17:39:05 I think the whole situation is a bit unfortunate. 17:39:50 I mean I understand his point of view, but his solution: just leaving the project is a bit unfortunate. 17:40:14 sesivany, yes I think we should stay to help change things as he was doing 17:41:05 sesivany, the issue with the Fedora Brazil community is that there are too many people as ambassadors 17:41:46 right now 45, some of them left the community long time ago and still listed as ambassadors but they don't do anything 17:41:47 general advise is to attach a goal or task to every request. Do you want swag or media? Tell us events where you're going to use them. Do you want a travel budget to an event? Ok, I'll be helping at the booth, prepare this or that, deliver a talk. 17:42:26 +1 sesivany 17:42:44 sesivany, that is what we were doing it we force the requester to go to the latam meeting an support his request 17:43:31 before, we basically did not know the Brazil ambassadors except the ones who go to Fudcons 17:43:49 aeperezt: are those ambassadors still part of Fedora Project? because if they dont log in to FAS for some time, they get unlisted. 17:44:24 sesivany: are you sure? 17:44:41 sesivany, that is the thing you keep an ambassador status because you login from time to time on FAS 17:44:48 ? 17:45:05 aeperezt: yeah, that's a good policy, but really I'd always but requests the way that they're not rewards, they are support to enable you to do the job for Fedora. So there should always be the job involved. 17:46:15 sesivany, that is the way things were treated, if the show and event we they go they will get swags 17:46:19 the inactive ambassadors discussion is on for a long time. We have never made a consensus to make a critera base on which we could remove them from the list. 17:46:48 in other teams, it's easier, you can look at commits, but for ambassadors? Very difficult. 17:47:02 yes 17:47:32 45 ambassadors for one country is really a lot. 17:47:49 yes 17:47:59 too many 17:48:30 maybe Brazil is too big 17:48:35 sesivany, the really active ones are the new ones and a few others, at least that I can see on list and on events 17:48:43 Brazil is big 17:48:49 that is right 17:48:53 maybe making the mentoring process a bit harder? 17:49:45 I don't know the success rate in LATAM, but most ambassador candidates fails to become ambassadors in EMEA. 17:49:47 sesivany, the issue is not with new ambassadors but with old that keep the status but don't do anything we need new people that can take charge like Sergio did 17:50:05 but we need a way that old people lets new ones led 17:51:01 there is a new group that is starting to be an events and all that 17:51:05 aeperezt: yeah, but maybe if we have the mentorship a bit harder, then we wouldn't allow in ambassadors that take it easy and last only for a couple of months. 17:52:40 but having old ambassadors on a meeting saying I'm going to this event so I want 5 polo shirts because the event last 5 days that does motivate the wrong actitude on new ones 17:52:42 btw in EMEA, we started so called "peer program". When a candidate finishes the mentorship and become ambassadors, they get a peer (one of current ambassadors) who help them settle in the project. 17:53:16 should we raise a new rule to force each ambassador to do (at least) an activity per quarter or similar? 17:53:24 make sure they attend at least one bigger event to meet other contributors, help them set some agenda for the first year etc. 17:53:38 of cource we just ignore those request. 17:53:52 well that is part of what fisl was all about 17:54:19 tuanta: no, I don't think pushing anyone to doing activities is a good way to go. 17:54:25 many recent ambassadors will meet with working ambassadors 17:54:53 yes, I think so too, sesivany 17:55:24 I think the peer review is a very good idea because ambassadors are usually left in the air after the mentorship and if anyone helps them in the first year, they're more likely stay active. 17:55:34 the question is how do avoid this to happend again 17:55:35 peer program, sorry 17:55:49 sesivany, that sounds like a great plan 17:56:17 peer review could be a good point, sesivany 17:56:37 we may try in APAC next times too 17:56:37 aeperezt: I don't think there are any easy steps to avoid such situations. 17:57:11 aeperezt: accommodating as many requests as possible if you have enough resources is generally a good thing. 17:57:54 so it's mainly about long-term policies, working on keeping ambassadors active, guide them, help them set some agenda. 17:59:10 another thing I push in EMEA is that a requirement in mentorship is to attend at least one regional meeting before he/she becomes an ambassador. They can see how it works, introduce themselves to others etc. 17:59:43 sesivany, that is a good idea, something that is not happening on latam 18:00:16 pretty much all ambassadors I have mentored remained active because I tried to pull them in the project as much as possible and make sure they have some agenda/tasks for the first year. 18:00:48 sesivany, maybe we need to review the way mentoring is done in latam 18:01:18 and I definitely prefer quality to quantity. 18:01:35 because why to accept so many ambassadors if they become inactive very soon? 18:01:46 and then it's dificult to get rid of them. 18:02:22 frankly my success rate in mentorship is about 30 percent :) 18:02:34 sesivany, that part is the issue there are people that only want the status of been Ambassador 18:02:39 but as I said those people usually remain active. 18:03:03 sesivany, but what is active login once a month on fas 18:03:36 sesivany, I think we need to figured that out 18:03:51 aeperezt: yes, I have got such candidates, too. They say: I'm a Ubuntu LoCo member, Debian Advocate,...whatever and I also want to be a Fedora Ambassadors. 18:04:04 we are looking a one case and probably there are many more 18:04:07 they take it like another achievement :) 18:04:18 lol 18:04:49 I am a bit sleepy today :) 18:04:58 so I usually make it sound like a very hard job, I want commitment. And I don't usually never heard back from them again :) 18:05:58 ok, this is a long discussion. I think it's something we should discuss much more at some special meeting, for example at Flock. 18:06:07 btw guys, are you coming to Flock? 18:06:37 will try 18:06:42 I want to, and I submitted a talk 18:06:45 lets see 18:07:02 ok, it's definitely a topic to discuss there. 18:07:26 yes 18:07:38 for now, I suggest you consider some changes in mentoring and trying the peer program. 18:07:57 I hope, at least, we can have 4 of 7 FAmSCo members there 18:08:06 yes, peer program is good 18:08:27 actually, mentoring is almost dead in APAC 18:08:27 I don't even know if I'll be a FAmSCo member at the time of Flock :) 18:08:56 ok, anything else to discuss? It's getting late for tuanta, I guess. 18:09:10 it's enough today for me 18:09:33 if you have some more topics, I may see the logs later 18:09:54 it's over 1:00AM here right now 18:10:02 I need to run away, too. 18:10:14 ok, lets end today 18:10:15 ok, thank you for coming today and see you next week! 18:10:21 #endmeeting