17:00:40 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-07-22
17:00:40 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jul 22 17:00:40 2013 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:40 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:42 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:00:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:00:47 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
17:00:55 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:57 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:01:12 <sesivany> aeperezt, cwickert: ping
17:01:22 <sesivany> tuanta: ping
17:01:28 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
17:01:28 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
17:01:29 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:01:32 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:01:35 <sesivany> LoKoMurdoK: ping
17:01:52 * cwickert is here
17:01:56 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:01:57 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:02:10 <aeperezt> helo everyone
17:02:34 <sesivany> #info robyduck sent his regrets, he's still on a vacation.
17:03:45 <sesivany> ok, let's start.
17:04:01 <sesivany> #topic Meeting Time
17:04:17 <sesivany> cwickert: did you find any better time via the scheduling tool?
17:04:41 <cwickert> nope
17:04:46 <cwickert> so far only 3 people replied
17:05:03 <sesivany> aeperezt, tuanta: have you replied?
17:05:05 <cwickert> http://whenisgood.net/famsco-meeting/results/4jyz2f
17:05:11 <cwickert> reply at http://whenisgood.net/famsco-meeting
17:06:01 <tuanta> sorry, I did not see it. I will reply soon
17:06:20 <cwickert> why not now?
17:06:24 <sesivany> #link http://whenisgood.net/famsco-meeting - all famsco members to indicate suitable meeting times for them.
17:06:34 <aeperezt> did not see that
17:06:37 <cwickert> we can finish this in 3 minutes if everybody enters their timing now
17:06:46 * tuanta marking reply
17:07:41 <sesivany> cwickert: who else is missing? I don't think we can expect a reply from bckurera who is not available long term.
17:08:57 * cwickert reloads
17:09:29 <cwickert> aaahhhh
17:09:39 <cwickert> that's worse than before :)
17:10:09 <cwickert> ok, let's just stick to the current time, ok?
17:10:11 <tuanta> done :)
17:10:50 <cwickert> opinions?
17:10:57 <aeperezt> added mine
17:12:14 <cwickert> aaaand it's gone!
17:12:17 <cwickert> no match
17:12:30 * LoKoMurdoK here late
17:12:36 <LoKoMurdoK> .fas lbazan
17:12:36 <zodbot> LoKoMurdoK: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
17:12:41 <sesivany> yeah, it's hard to find any suitable time if there are members from all over the world.
17:12:52 <cwickert> suggestion: stick to current timing
17:13:19 <sesivany> I don't care as long as it's in work days and at some reasonable time, but weekend are no, no for me.
17:13:31 <cwickert> sissi!
17:13:48 <sesivany> I need to get away from computers at least for the weekend if I'm not at some conference :)
17:13:55 <cwickert> sesivany: come on, you already live in the office, you can stay there over the weekend, too ;)
17:14:16 <cwickert> ok, lets finish this
17:14:27 <sesivany> are we sticking with the current time?
17:14:31 <cwickert> is everybody fine with keeping the current time?
17:14:34 <cwickert> +1
17:14:37 <sesivany> +1
17:14:56 <sesivany> we at least tried to find something better...
17:15:08 * cwickert could actually make it an hour earlier, that would be better for tuanta but worse for LoKoMurdoK and aeperezt
17:15:14 <cwickert> so lets just stick to it
17:15:23 <cwickert> ok, tuanta, aeperezt, LoKoMurdoK?
17:15:25 <tuanta> +1
17:16:01 <sesivany> #info FAmSCo is sticking with the current meeting time - Mon 5pm.
17:16:08 <cwickert> ok
17:16:15 <sesivany> ok, let's move on...
17:16:26 <aeperezt> I could be an hour earlier but may not be at 100% on the meeting
17:17:06 <sesivany> aeperezt: one hour earlier would be a problem for me because I'm usually busy at work.
17:17:18 <aeperezt> same here
17:17:25 <sesivany> nothing I couldn't overcome, but 5pm is better.
17:17:32 <sesivany> ok, let's move on.
17:17:43 <sesivany> #topic CC holder for APAC
17:17:50 <sesivany> tuanta: any updates here?
17:18:04 <tuanta> yes
17:18:22 <tuanta> I contacted to Shakti Kannan but he has rejected
17:18:54 <tuanta> he introduced his colleague, Kushal Das who also active in Fedora Ambassador APAC
17:19:27 <tuanta> some of us here already known/heard this guy. I myself met him once in KL last year
17:19:59 <sesivany> tuanta: so is he a good match for the role?
17:20:21 <tuanta> in the last APAC meeting, we also discussed about this
17:20:40 <tuanta> he is also good for the role
17:21:12 <sesivany> tuanta: does the APAC community agree on this?
17:21:13 <tuanta> I emailed him and have been waiting for his reply now
17:21:37 <tuanta> yes, APAC likes this new choice
17:21:58 <tuanta> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/333#comment:18
17:22:19 <sesivany> tuanta: ok, let's wait for his reply, looks like a promising solution.
17:22:46 <tuanta> yes, I will update more in next meeting(s)
17:22:52 <sesivany> tuanta: just let him know it's a bit longer commitment. I don't really want to go through this after a couple of months :)
17:23:11 <tuanta> sure :)
17:23:25 <cwickert> Greetings from Robert
17:23:45 <cwickert> he says he's sorry he cannot come, he is lying in on the beach in the sun ;)
17:24:11 <tuanta> :)
17:24:41 <sesivany> cwickert: good for him. I haven't taken my swimming shorts out yet this summer... :-/
17:26:42 <sesivany> are we done with this topic?
17:27:34 <tuanta> I think it should be back in the next meeting(s)
17:27:50 <sesivany> ok
17:28:17 <sesivany> I'd like to discuss one special topic with you... it's a bit of marketing stuff...
17:28:44 <sesivany> #topic Fedora Fliers for Special Target Groups
17:28:59 <sesivany> I've started a little initiative...
17:29:19 <sesivany> those of you who follow the marketing list have probably noticed that.
17:29:50 <sesivany> I'd like to produce fliers we can use at events: fliers for our target user groups.
17:30:02 * cwickert doesn't follow marketing
17:30:11 <sesivany> Fedora in the cloud, Python on Fedora, Ruby on Fedora,...
17:30:29 <tuanta> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2013-July/015047.html
17:30:36 <sesivany> so if someone is coming to e.g. EuroPython, we can take a few Python on Fedora fliers with him.
17:31:30 <sesivany> I've already contacted several people from respective fields (M. Miller from cloud,...) and the design team, but I'd like to discuss how ambassadors could contribute.
17:31:40 <sesivany> if they can give some useful input.
17:32:26 <sesivany> all we have at events are media and swag (buttons&stickers), no really informative materials.
17:33:56 <sesivany> the fliers shouldn't be overly informative, just something like "the person gets home, looks at it and says: yeah, this Fedora might be interesting for me because this, this,...".
17:34:10 <cwickert> what about something like musicians and artists?
17:34:16 <sesivany> what do you think about it? do you think it's something ambassadors will find useful?
17:34:22 <cwickert> I think we had these fliers alreary, right?
17:34:43 <sesivany> cwickert: yes, sure. Any interest groups. I just wanted to start with the technical first. But I'm open to anything.
17:35:05 <cwickert> I think we definitely need fliers. we need one general purpose flier, not release specific
17:35:15 <cwickert> then maybe one for every release with the new features
17:35:25 <cwickert> but I agree we need special interest groups
17:35:27 <sesivany> cwickert: actually I was a bit inspired by the fliers produced by mo (Fedora for artists).
17:35:33 <cwickert> because these are our target audience
17:36:15 <cwickert> btw: I am not aware if people here are aware of the discussion that is going on in the board about our target audience
17:36:21 <cwickert> are you?
17:36:27 <sesivany> cwickert: sure, we can make some release specific, but those for interest groups should not be release specific not to change and print them every release.
17:36:51 <cwickert> Fedora is likely to reshape it's target audience. we don't try to target everybody, not like Ubuntu
17:36:53 <sesivany> cwickert: I think even the board doesn't know :)
17:37:00 <cwickert> but instead, we want active contributors
17:37:08 <cwickert> or people who already have some knowledge
17:37:15 <cwickert> however, there is no definition
17:37:19 <cwickert> well, there is....
17:37:43 <sesivany> cwickert: yes, developers, makers, artists. People who make stuff, not only consume.
17:37:54 <tuanta> any link, cwickert?
17:38:08 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_base
17:38:16 <cwickert> this is the current definition
17:38:29 <cwickert> but we are probably going to set the bar a little higher
17:38:42 <cwickert> like "people who already know what github is"
17:39:02 <cwickert> and this brings us back to the target group specific fliers
17:39:28 <cwickert> if you want to convince some python or perl or php developer to develop on Fedora, you need to have a flier
17:39:47 <aeperezt> cwickert, yes but you cannot have on without the other
17:39:49 <cwickert> or at least some way to tell him why Fedora is good for him
17:40:14 <aeperezt> you cannot have developers, maker, artists if they are not users first
17:40:30 <cwickert> aeperezt: right, that doesn't mean that we are no longer interested in users and start shipping a test mode system by default like Arch linux :)
17:40:40 <cwickert> s/test/text
17:40:42 <aeperezt> unless you want to become geento
17:40:56 <cwickert> Gentoo is dead, Arch is the new Gentoo
17:41:01 <cwickert> pretty much like it
17:41:16 <aeperezt> cwickert, right that is why I mention Gentoo
17:41:23 <sesivany> aeperezt, you're right. If we want to raise the bar, we have to make sure that we don't lower quality and user friendliness.
17:41:26 <aeperezt> because that is the path it will go
17:41:38 <cwickert> sesivany: indeed
17:42:00 <sesivany> because a lot of developers think that having broken stuff is ok for technical people because they can solve the problems, but it pisses them off as much as anyone else.
17:42:02 <cwickert> anyway, all I want to say is: We should attract new user groups like python or web developers, artists
17:42:10 <cwickert> and for that fliers would be good
17:42:14 <cwickert> and more focussed events
17:42:40 <cwickert> like we should spend more time at events like EuroPython or Rails Camp and so on
17:42:52 <aeperezt> we need to be a distribution that could be of interest for the newbee college kits so it needs to be friendly enoght for new users but strong enought to get them into develovers
17:43:02 <sesivany> one thing we have to start thinking about is getting our of the cycle. A lot of our events are events where people already know us.
17:43:51 <sesivany> we have to be active outside the core Linux community: as cwickert says: EuroPython, Rails Camp, all kinds of barcamps.
17:43:52 <cwickert> here in Europe and in NA the 'all purpose linux' events have become pretty boring. specialized events for developers, sysadmins etc on the other hand are booming
17:43:58 <cwickert> ack!
17:44:05 <cwickert> so, I'm all for fliers
17:44:10 <cwickert> and for these events
17:44:10 <cwickert> brb
17:44:59 <sesivany> cwickert: I'd like to make a session at Flock to get the people together and work on them because it's much faster than communicating over IRC, mail,...
17:45:24 <tuanta> good idea, sesivany
17:45:40 <sesivany> cwickert: we can come up with useful results after one session and over IRC, mail etc. it would be a project for weeks or months.
17:47:13 <sesivany> why I brought it up at our meeting is that I think that ambassadors should participate in such an effort because they will work with those fliers in the end.
17:49:45 <sesivany> any opinions on this?
17:50:01 <sesivany> tuanta: will you join us for the session at Flock? ;-)
17:50:19 <tuanta> why not ;)
17:51:57 <sesivany> but what cwickert mentioned is IMHO very important.
17:52:18 <sesivany> we should get out of the loop and reach more potential users.
17:52:42 <sesivany> please take it into account when you plan events in your regions.
17:53:03 <tuanta> sure
17:53:09 <cwickert> re
17:54:03 <cwickert> +1 for a session at flock
17:54:26 <cwickert> but I think we should announce it in advance on the list, too
17:54:31 <cwickert> and ask for input
17:54:48 <sesivany> cwickert: you mean the flock list?
17:54:53 <tuanta> +1 cwickert.
17:55:44 <cwickert> sesivany: or ambassadors list
17:55:52 <sesivany> cwickert: ok
17:55:58 <cwickert> in case we have people who cannot attend
17:56:21 <sesivany> #action sesivany to announce the initiative to create Fedora fliers at the ambassadors list.
17:57:56 <sesivany> ok, that's all I wanted to discuss today. Can we switch to openfloor or do you have anything specific you want to discuss?
17:58:13 <aeperezt> tatica has some fliyer already done
17:58:41 <aeperezt> but I don't think those will archive your goal they are more generic
17:58:53 <aeperezt> but it can be used as start
17:58:59 <aeperezt> and she is going to flock
17:59:31 <sesivany> aeperezt: great, I will definitely invite design folks to the session.
18:00:28 <sesivany> #topic Openfloor
18:01:48 <sesivany> I'd like to send my regrets that I won't probably attend on Aug 5th because it will be during GUADEC which I'm organizing.
18:02:37 <sesivany> and on the 19 and 26th I'll be on holidays... yes! after more than a year.
18:02:38 <tuanta> it's so close to Flock
18:03:32 <sesivany> tuanta: yes, I'll close GUADEC on the 8th and take a bus to Prague to take a flight to Flock :)
18:03:58 <sesivany> one cool thing I just spotted:
18:04:02 <sesivany> #link http://kitall.blogspot.cz/2013/07/greetings-from-tibetan-fedora.html
18:04:22 <tuanta> really cool :)
18:06:10 <sesivany> anything else today or if not, I'll end the meeting.
18:06:20 <aeperezt> sesivany, not from me
18:06:21 <aeperezt> thanks
18:06:49 <sesivany> #endmeeting