17:00:18 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-12-09
17:00:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Dec  9 17:00:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:29 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:00:29 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:00:38 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
17:00:44 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:44 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:01:07 * LoKoMurd1K here
17:01:22 <LoKoMurd1K> .fas lbazan
17:01:23 <zodbot> LoKoMurd1K: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
17:01:25 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
17:01:26 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
17:01:39 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:01:40 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:01:45 * sesivany is back :)
17:02:46 <sesivany> what about bckurera? did he show up in the last month?
17:03:02 <tuanta> no :(
17:03:52 <sesivany> cwickert and I spoke about elections at the weekend. Normally, they would already be on.
17:04:01 <tuanta> ping aeperezt
17:04:20 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:04:20 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:04:50 <sesivany> robyduck: ping
17:05:17 <sesivany> #topic CC holder for APAC
17:05:30 <sesivany> tuanta: I saw your email...
17:05:38 <tuanta> .famsco 333
17:05:38 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/333
17:05:55 <sesivany> lucky number but not so lucky case :-/
17:06:22 <tuanta> no response up to now
17:06:34 <cwickert> I think this is all pretty disappointing
17:06:50 <aeperezt> cwickert, thanks I got the pins
17:06:55 <cwickert> no elections, not response about the credit cards and so on
17:07:02 <cwickert> aeperezt: welcome, glad they arrived
17:07:17 <tuanta> I think they are too busy these days for the new f20
17:07:30 <cwickert> I don't think they are busy with f20
17:07:44 <sesivany> tuanta: maybe developers, but this is board's job...
17:07:55 <cwickert> they have other things to do, probably fighting within RH or bother with useless discussions
17:08:07 <aeperezt> cwickert, yes seems like we have no responses for anything not sure what is going own
17:08:38 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
17:08:39 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
17:08:51 <sesivany> the good news is that I've found a way how I can transfer expenses on my RH credit card to OSAS cost center. So I can also server as a CC holder, at least a bit.
17:09:10 <robyduck> hi all, sorry for being late (reading backlog)
17:09:36 <tuanta> cool, sesivany
17:10:34 <sesivany> tuanta: I can't do it for every community expense, but I can help with large sums.
17:10:49 <sesivany> my monthly limit is €5000.
17:11:12 <tuanta> oh, it's quite good.
17:12:11 <aeperezt> sesivany, nice
17:12:56 <aeperezt> sesivany, you can help apac for now
17:13:02 <sesivany> #info sesivany can use his RH credit card to pay community expenses. He can help with larger sums.
17:13:56 <sesivany> tuanta: kushal has left Red Hat?
17:14:29 <tuanta> yes, he told me that
17:14:53 <sesivany> tuanta: that means he is not suitable for the role of cc holder, right?
17:15:34 <tuanta> yes, we should wait for Ruth and Robyn now
17:16:22 <sesivany> tuanta: that's going to be a long shot :-(
17:16:22 <tuanta> we are back to the first candidate, KageSenshi
17:16:57 <tuanta> yes, I need to wait, I see
17:16:59 <sesivany> #info kushal has left Red Hat, so we now don't have a candidate who is a RH employee.
17:17:34 <tuanta> s/I need/ we need
17:18:33 <tuanta> I see nothing left to discuss at this moment. we can get this back later. next topic please
17:18:56 <sesivany> tuanta: ok
17:19:08 <sesivany> next topic...
17:19:25 <sesivany> #topic FY15 budget
17:19:39 <sesivany> it's time to start working on the budget for the next year...
17:19:45 <cwickert> ?
17:19:51 <cwickert> Isn't that FY14?
17:19:58 <robyduck> :)
17:20:18 <tuanta> for next year, it named FY15
17:20:55 <tuanta> has it done in EMEA?
17:21:20 <sesivany> tuanta: it's weird, but it's named after the calendar year when the fiscal year ends.
17:21:45 <sesivany> 4/5 of the year is in 2014 and 1/5 in 2015, but it's still 2015 :-)
17:22:07 <cwickert> tuanta: yes, we did it this weekend on the FAD
17:22:18 <sesivany> tuanta: I think we did most of it the last weekend.
17:22:25 <tuanta> cool
17:22:34 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Rheinfelden_2013#Saturday
17:22:49 * cwickert still needs to clean up the wiki page a bit
17:23:13 <cwickert> tuanta: what is the situation like in APAC if you compare your planned budget to the money you actually spent?
17:23:25 <sesivany> cwickert: I will convert it to the budget layout we have for this year's budget.
17:23:25 <cwickert> I think you should have money left, right?
17:23:53 <tuanta> yes
17:24:08 <cwickert> sesivany: ok, my idea was to have a format we could throw into the Events wiki page with minor changes
17:24:13 <cwickert> but do as you like
17:24:41 <tuanta> I am thinking to use that left money for FAD APAC
17:24:47 <sesivany> cwickert: we can have either.
17:25:08 <sesivany> cwickert: I'm just going to make a new budget at the budget page based on the table.
17:25:43 <tuanta> but PH team (the host) seems too busy. They respond so slow :(
17:26:28 <tuanta> I am not sure we can do it on January as the first plan; It may be delayed to February
17:26:35 <tuanta> I still hope we can make it
17:26:39 <cwickert> sesivany: frankly speaking I don't think the budget should be in the agenda, so move it where you want it
17:27:06 <cwickert> tuanta: that was not really my question
17:27:30 <cwickert> I recall many people from the APAC community had great plans for this year
17:27:39 <cwickert> and wanted to spend a lot of money on events
17:27:42 <sesivany> cwickert: sure, it won't be there. It will be on a webpage like /EMEA/Budget:2015
17:28:05 <cwickert> but many of them didn't seem to take place
17:28:20 <cwickert> so how is the actual money spent compared to the money you planned?
17:28:34 <cwickert> The FAD has nothing to do with it
17:28:57 <tuanta> I got summary for Q1 and Q2
17:28:57 <cwickert> because this is by definition a premier event, means the budget is not from regional support
17:29:02 <tuanta> let me check on the wiki
17:29:33 <cwickert> I see the budget at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Budget
17:29:38 <cwickert> but where is the old draft?
17:30:46 <cwickert> can you please put this side by side for every quarter or country somehow? "Money planned" and "Money spent"?
17:31:07 <cwickert> because this weekend I again realized how crucial it is to compare this
17:31:42 <cwickert> your budget is only reliable when you compare it to what you actually spend, not when people make a wish list of what they would like to spend
17:32:36 <tuanta> Q1: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Budget#Total_quarterly_budget
17:32:37 <sesivany> cwickert: I can't give you an exact number after Q3 (I still need to close Q3 first), but I'm pretty sure EMEA is slightly over the budget.
17:32:55 <tuanta> and Q2: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/APAC/Budget#Total_quarterly_budget_2
17:33:08 <cwickert> tuanta: perfect!
17:33:11 <aeperezt> sesivany, same latam but I need to confirm with card holder
17:34:03 <tuanta> actually, it's not perfect at all :(
17:34:21 <cwickert> but it's a good start
17:34:39 <LoKoMurdoK> cwickert: +1
17:34:42 <LoKoMurdoK> :)
17:34:49 <sesivany> cwickert: what's wrong with it?
17:34:51 <cwickert> I suggest everybody tries to clean up their budget for 2013 before they start planning for 2014
17:35:03 <cwickert> sesivany: nothing, tuanta is not happy with it
17:35:34 <cwickert> tuanta: why are you unhappy? you are doing a great job
17:35:49 <sesivany> cwickert: that's a good point. Let's come to the next meeting with closed Q3s.
17:35:55 <cwickert> +1
17:36:01 <aeperezt> sesivany +1
17:36:03 <sesivany> then we can know how much we actually have left.
17:36:04 <LoKoMurdoK> +1
17:36:16 <tuanta> no, cwickert. I really would like to warm our region up
17:36:38 <sesivany> and we should also nag someone from NA even though I'm afraid it's hopeless.
17:37:18 <sesivany> tuanta: it's the first year. It's going to improve with time.
17:37:23 <cwickert> tuanta: I don't think it is your fault that APAC did not spend so much money
17:37:30 <cwickert> same goes for LATAM
17:37:42 <cwickert> the expectation from the people were just too high
17:38:11 <cwickert> when you tell somebody "Hey, I will give you money", they will freak out and think "I am going to run the best event ever"
17:38:13 <tuanta> there is not much Ambassadors work done in APAC this year
17:38:25 <cwickert> but then they see it is a lot of work and not only spending money
17:38:41 <cwickert> so the expectations were just over the top
17:38:41 <sesivany> if there is money left consider prepaying some expenses. For example if you know that someone will need a plane ticket in April. Just buy it for him now.
17:38:50 <cwickert> right
17:39:06 <cwickert> if you have money left, you can buy stuff, e.g. swag
17:39:13 <cwickert> of hold the FAD
17:39:25 <cwickert> I mean, a FAD is a premiere event by definition
17:39:52 <tuanta> do you think we can use that keft money for the next APAC FAD?
17:39:58 <cwickert> but as it is specific to APAC and it is in fact to help the community there grow, I think it makes sense to pay if from the regional support budget
17:40:12 <sesivany> tuanta: or for example polo shirts for most active ambassadors is a good idea. That's what we are doing in EMEA.
17:40:12 <tuanta> I think so too
17:40:13 <cwickert> also I guess that premier events budget has not much money left after flock
17:40:46 <tuanta> yes, sesivany
17:41:08 <sesivany> cwickert: on the other hand, APAC didn't have FUDCon and Robyn said they could use the money for their FAD. And it's about $20k.
17:41:43 <sesivany> to have this money unspent is another failure.
17:41:45 <aeperezt> sesivany, +1
17:41:53 <tuanta> why doesn't she tell us directly? :)
17:42:06 <cwickert> she is bad in communicating atm
17:43:10 <sesivany> I don't see any other way. FAmSCo will have to rent a tropical island in Thailand for a week to spend APAC's money :D
17:43:22 <tuanta> it's also a good news. All I want now is to warm our region up.
17:43:31 <tuanta> lol. +1 sesivany
17:43:33 <tuanta> :)
17:43:48 * LoKoMurdoK :o
17:44:16 <aeperezt> tuanta, you are doing a great job, it may not be the way you wanted but will improve with some time, the good thing is that you are there to keep warm up the community
17:44:32 <sesivany> btw I just got a message from jreznik. Elections will be in January.
17:44:35 <LoKoMurdoK> aeperezt: +1
17:44:46 <tuanta> thanks, my friends
17:45:00 <sesivany> they're looking for an election wrangler. Ankur doesn't have time this time.
17:45:59 <sesivany> #info F21 elections will most likely take place in January. They're looking for a volunteer to do the election wrangler role.
17:46:04 <aeperezt> sesivany, who can show me what it is require I think I can help
17:47:02 <sesivany> aeperezt: please write an email to jreznik (jreznik@redhat.com). He will tell you more.
17:47:10 <LoKoMurdoK> sesivany: the wrangler can be a member of either team?
17:47:10 <aeperezt> sesivany, ok
17:47:29 * cwickert would volunteer unless he is up for elections himself
17:47:38 <sesivany> cwickert: correct
17:48:07 <tuanta> +1 cwickert
17:48:15 <aeperezt> cwickert, +1
17:48:16 <sesivany> LoKoMurdoK: it could be any member of the community if she/he doesn't candidate.
17:48:20 <cwickert> looks like I am not, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Ambassadors_Steering_Committee
17:48:20 <LoKoMurdoK> cwickert: +1
17:48:55 <tuanta> yes, that's me, aeperezt and bckurera
17:49:05 <aeperezt> cwickert, I think you will be better than me
17:49:06 <robyduck> yep tuanta +1
17:49:14 <cwickert> aeperezt: ok, thanks
17:49:16 <LoKoMurdoK> sesivany: ok
17:49:33 <cwickert> #action cwickert to volunteer as election wrangler
17:49:42 <sesivany> but to sum up the budget discussion...
17:50:08 <sesivany> #action each region to close Q3 before the next meeting
17:50:49 <tuanta> +1 sesivany
17:50:56 <sesivany> please close the last quarter before the next meeting so that we can know how much money we have left in the last quarter and can make plans accordingly.
17:50:58 <aeperezt> +1
17:51:35 <cwickert> +1
17:51:41 <LoKoMurdoK> +1
17:51:44 <robyduck> +1
17:52:32 <sesivany> ok, anything else to discuss today?
17:53:11 <sesivany> #topic Openfloor
17:53:19 <tuanta> FedUp just finished. I am using F20 now :)
17:53:39 <LoKoMurdoK> tshirts? f20?
17:53:41 <robyduck> what about the FAS cleanup?
17:53:41 <sesivany> robyduck: the F20 t-shirts are on their way
17:53:48 <LoKoMurdoK> :o
17:53:48 <robyduck> sesivany: great
17:53:57 <sesivany> robyduck: that's a good topic...
17:54:02 <robyduck> I added the names I got at the FAD today
17:54:21 <sesivany> tuanta: it's necessary to clean up FAS from unsuccessful candidates
17:54:22 <robyduck> and I'm going to do a form where people can add address and size
17:54:36 <sesivany> no one has done it for at least a year.
17:54:39 <robyduck> so we can send a unique email to all and it would be faster
17:54:44 <tuanta> yes, I se a long list. But I am not sure what I should do
17:54:51 <tuanta> just simply remove them?
17:55:13 <cwickert> there are two things here
17:55:42 <cwickert> tuanta: at Rheinfelden we decided to make the ambassadors group invite-only
17:55:57 <cwickert> the mentoring process will not really change
17:56:42 <cwickert> the only difference is that people do not apply for ambassadors membership in FAS but the mentor adds them to the group when the sponsoring is successful
17:56:58 <cwickert> understood?
17:57:02 <LoKoMurdoK> cwickert: +1
17:57:03 <tuanta> yes, it makes sense
17:57:20 <cwickert> this will help us getting rid of the long queue in FAS
17:57:21 <sesivany> we had a long discussion about it
17:57:32 <cwickert> and the solution was so simple ;)
17:57:37 <cwickert> anyway
17:57:40 <tuanta> yes, it's nothing for me to do anything
17:57:42 <sesivany> invite-only is actually a genious solution .)
17:57:47 <LoKoMurdoK> sesivany: +1
17:57:50 <cwickert> I think we first need to document these changes in the wiki and in trac
17:58:05 <cwickert> this means it needs to be documented both for the candidates in the fedora wiki
17:58:08 <sesivany> because it's been invite-only in fact.
17:58:17 <cwickert> and for the mentors in the fama in the trac/wiki
17:58:42 <robyduck> cwickert: +1
17:58:51 <cwickert> and when this is done, we can send out a mass mail to the candidates in the queue who not yet have an open ticket for mentoring
17:59:50 <tuanta> cwickert: can you do documenting that?
18:00:13 <cwickert> something along the lines "Dear Foo, you got removed from the queue of candidates that awaited membership in the ambassadors group in FAS because we have changed the process. Your mentor will add you after you have successfully completed the mentoring procedure. Please have a look at <wiki> for more info on how to re-apply"
18:00:24 <cwickert> robyduck: can you or should I?
18:00:44 <cwickert> robyduck: how about you write the mail and I make the changes in the wiki/trac
18:00:49 <robyduck> cwickert: ok I can do
18:00:57 <tuanta> cool
18:01:16 <cwickert> #action cwickert to document the 'invite-only' change in the wiki and the FAMA trac
18:01:16 <tuanta> then I will do cleaning up
18:01:29 <robyduck> cwickert: will write the mail once the wiki/trac is done, ok?
18:01:41 <cwickert> #action robyduck to send a mass mail to all candidates when the get removed from the queue
18:01:54 <cwickert> robyduck: yes, that was the plan, then you can link to the new instructions
18:02:06 <robyduck> ok
18:02:15 <cwickert> tuanta: there is nothing for you to do here
18:02:18 <tuanta> then robyduck will do cleanup too?
18:02:23 <tuanta> yes, I see
18:02:26 <cwickert> yes, I think this is best
18:02:29 <cwickert> robyduck: ok?
18:02:36 <robyduck> yes yes :)
18:02:40 <cwickert> ok
18:02:42 <robyduck> ok, got it
18:02:47 <cwickert> now there is step number two
18:02:53 <tuanta> yes, it's best to clean up then send the mail; you will not miss anything out
18:03:03 <cwickert> there actually IS a cleanup of inactive ambassadors
18:03:09 <LoKoMurdoK> only invitation and need sponsor
18:03:20 <cwickert> I know we have been arguing about this topic a lot, e.g. at flock
18:03:36 <cwickert> and it turns out that FAmSCo in 2009 has decided to remove inactive ambassadors
18:03:55 <cwickert> this is something the fama wrangler needs to do once a month
18:04:02 <cwickert> but it hasn't happened for a long time now
18:04:19 <cwickert> I don't event think Clint did it, nor that he told tuanta about it
18:04:39 <tuanta> yes, he did not tell me this
18:04:41 <tuanta> what is the criteria?
18:04:43 <cwickert> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2009-March/msg00582.html
18:04:47 <robyduck> cwickert: we should add this rule too when modifying the wiki for the 'invite-only'
18:05:04 <cwickert> tuanta: don't worry, nobody knew it :)
18:05:13 <tuanta> lol
18:05:14 <cwickert> and I really mean nobody, none of the mentors there
18:05:36 <cwickert> but frankly speaking I would like us to discuss first
18:06:07 <cwickert> I mean, it does not make sense if we now pick up a process that has not been applied in years and decide to change it later
18:06:29 <cwickert> so I suggest we quickly discuss this in the next meeting when everybody has been reading the mail
18:06:37 <cwickert> and then think what we make of it
18:06:38 <cwickert> ok?
18:06:47 <aeperezt> +1
18:07:01 <LoKoMurdoK> cwickert: +1
18:07:02 <tuanta> +1
18:07:02 <robyduck> +1
18:07:05 <sesivany> +1
18:07:24 <cwickert> #action read https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-ambassadors-list/2009-March/msg00582.html
18:07:35 * cwickert files a ticket about it before we forget it
18:07:51 <tuanta> +1 cwickert. please file it
18:08:15 <tuanta> and add "meeting" keyword to
18:09:55 <sesivany> are we done today?
18:10:11 <tuanta> yes, I think so
18:10:30 * cwickert thinks so
18:10:30 <aeperezt> yeap
18:10:49 <LoKoMurdoK> yes!
18:10:51 <robyduck> yes, let's finish for today
18:13:21 <sesivany> #endmeeting