16:00:54 #startmeeting FAmSCo 2014-04-15 16:00:54 Meeting started Tue Apr 15 16:00:54 2014 UTC. The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:54 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:01:00 #meetingname famsco 16:01:00 The meeting name has been set to 'famsco' 16:01:08 #topic Roll Call 16:01:34 .hellomynameis tuanta 16:01:35 tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' 16:01:44 .fas robyduck 16:01:45 robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' 16:03:50 yn1v, masta: ping 16:04:03 lbazan: ping 16:04:04 .fas yn1v 16:04:04 yn1v: yn1v 'Neville A. Cross' 16:04:10 * yn1v Nicaragua 16:05:22 ok, let's start 16:05:50 #topic Regional Budgets for FY2015 16:06:04 FY2015 first? 16:06:05 I suppose we all have read the email from Ruth. 16:06:13 ý, ưe đi 16:06:17 yes, we did 16:06:19 yes 16:06:28 yes 16:06:50 they cut all off without any formulations :( 16:07:08 at least, APAC proposal has been bypassed 16:07:40 tuanta: how much did you get cut? 16:07:42 .fas lbazan 16:07:43 lbazan: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' 16:08:06 no relation between proposal and allocation or very small 16:08:28 sesivany, about a half 16:09:03 tuanta: I guess the only thing the budgets are based on is how much we spent in FY2014. 16:09:17 I will need to re-allocate budget on all our proposal 16:09:22 yes, I think so 16:09:42 The budget was the same as last year and e.g. EMEA got exactly the same amount we spent last year. 16:10:50 * robyduck still doesn't know when was decided to give 10k to APAC/LATAM FUDCons... 16:11:41 I am not very aware of details, but for LATAM it happened some years back 16:11:53 yn1v: you sure? 16:11:57 yes, robyduck. FUDCon Beijing team have to change their plan because of this budget cutting 16:12:11 * sesivany thought it was cut down from 20k to 15k, not from 15k to 10k, but I'm not sure. 16:12:22 sesivany: I remember the same 16:12:26 look: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=FUDCon_budget_template&diff=376124&oldid=241140 16:12:33 Panama got 10K, not sure about venezuela 16:12:37 it was changed now 16:12:40 yes, you are right, sesivany 16:12:58 cuzco spent 15k but apparently only 10K came from fedora 16:13:19 there is a standing issue with aprox 5K from jsmith 16:13:19 aeperezt: are you here? 16:13:36 I think it was aeperezt who told me about the cut from 20 to 15. 16:14:00 * masta is here 16:14:11 sesivany, robyduck just posted a link 16:14:22 it shows exactly how the change 16:15:25 so it was a decision of Ruth apparently. 16:15:35 yes, it seems so 16:15:36 FUDCon KL 2012 also received 15k (managed by Harish) 16:15:45 I think 10k is not enough 16:15:57 but I don't know if it has been decided months ago and she just updated the wiki page 16:16:09 ! 16:16:15 lbazan: go ahead 16:16:18 Ruth message is "ask for money" ... so I intend to make a more detailed event budget and ask for more. 16:16:19 it was not, robyduck 16:16:27 jsmith payd 4.5K 16:17:06 Beijing team knows they can have 15k from the beginning and they was planning so 16:17:17 now they need to change the plan 16:17:56 sesivany, how about Flock now? 16:18:00 jsmith he will ask a refund 16:18:01 do you know? 16:18:19 the total for peru = 15K or 14.5 16:18:19 lbazan: ok, but that's not the way we should budgetize FUDCons, IMHO. It doesn't make sense if someone pays out from his pocket and we don't even know if he got it back 16:18:38 +1 robyduck 16:18:44 tuanta: that's definitely a problem. If they changed rules after the organizers started planning the FUDCon. 16:19:30 does anyone have a link to the budget breakdown from the last year? 16:20:28 firstly, they responded so lately, then they did not tell them the exact fund; I just forwarded to FUDCon organizing team when I received the budget breakdown from Ruth 16:20:55 the organizing team did not know 16:20:57 hello jsmith we were talking about fudcon budget 16:20:59 jsmith: can you give more information about the budget used in fudcon peru 16:21:05 until I forwarded to them 16:21:32 I only found this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Accounting 16:22:29 I suggested FUDCon Beijing team to contact Robyn and Ruth to ask for more fund 16:22:35 it looks like APAC always had 20k and LATAM 15k before the cuts. 16:22:59 but I am not sure they will respond them soon 16:23:04 the date is so closed now 16:23:20 yes, sesivany 16:23:29 a big problem, I think 16:23:40 the budget has been cut more and more 16:24:11 I am not sure if RH is willing to support those events/activities any more? 16:25:06 I really don't find very unfortunate that Flock takes 80 percent of our premier event budget. 16:25:27 I do not know about APAC. But my feeling is that FUDCon LATAM have been view as "not so much productive". 16:25:52 maybe, similar here, yn1v 16:26:16 I have to agree a bit, it is a lot of money and in the end you came up with a couple of permanent contributors 16:26:24 this is "chicken and egg" situation 16:27:45 that's right, but Flock expenses are not very efficient either. Last year, they fully sponsored whoever had an accepted presentation. 16:28:06 paying e.g. $2000 for a talk is IMHO too much as well. 16:28:32 I think that FUDCon is some how wrong. Either you make a public promotional event or you make a contributor fostering event, but trying both at the same time is hard to achieve 16:29:21 We are aiming for fostering contributors with a smaller event. 16:30:23 sesivany, yes is a lot, but is not a talk... is a person that is a contributor and you are giving him/her incentive to keep up the good work 16:31:39 +1 yn1v 16:31:50 yn1v: but the only criteria was to have an accepted talk, not to be a contributor. That's the problem. Instead of sponsoring people who need to participate in important discussions, they only sponsored speakers. 16:32:20 yn1v: +1 16:32:24 and this will be the same for Prague 16:33:19 But ok, if the overall budget is the same as last year, wanting more for the two FUDCons means it must be cut somewhere else 16:33:28 if it's a contributor conference and it should be mainly about getting together, discussing stuff and getting stuff done. But the last Flock was mostly about presentations. 16:34:18 so, we should propose a better aproach for next flock 16:35:04 people proposing talks have a FAS, something to hsare and intention to travel. It is a good start. 16:35:24 s/ hsare /share 16:35:51 But certainly has room for improvement 16:36:39 * sesivany is comparing the FY2014 and FY2015 budgets... 16:37:46 robyduck, some how Ruth message did not seem to say so. I understand that we want/need more, we should ask to get more. I did not understand that she meant to take budged from some else 16:38:09 but to look for more money 16:38:38 yes, I understood the same as yn1v 16:38:54 then it's even better :) 16:39:03 I think that she didn't want to look for more money if there was no need 16:39:08 tuanta: +1 she say 'simple ask' 16:39:24 just try to push everything well, spend money wisely, then we can ask for more money 16:39:27 but, I may be wrong. 16:39:41 we should confirm her :) 16:39:56 the first action, right? 16:40:04 who is volunteer? :) 16:40:13 tuanta: :S 16:40:27 the one whos asks always is the best volunteer :P 16:40:34 just kidding. we need to confirm her 16:40:38 volunteer to do what? 16:40:57 I will reply on the list 16:41:34 I did a little comparison: we actually got a couple of thousands more if I counted it correctly: 2014: 91,500, 2015: 95,000. 16:42:19 sesivany, include or exclude FUDCon and Flock? 16:42:26 what I found kinda ridiculous is that all the increase went to NA. Anyone has an idea why? 16:42:34 tuanta: exluding that 16:42:45 yes, I see, most to NA 16:43:03 while they do not publish everything :( 16:43:13 I have no idea why 16:43:33 yes, that's not very educating... 16:43:39 I recall that there are some expenses that are charged to NA that are for all regions 16:43:44 why need more.... NA? 16:44:14 yn1v: but they shouldn't go to NA this year any more 16:44:21 yn1v: yes, but that was also the last year. Nothing changed there. If they had added it this year I would understand. 16:44:59 yn1v: Yes, like stickers and case badges, as I recall 16:45:08 I don't like three things about the proposed budget: 16:45:09 yn1v: (which then get carried or shipped to the various other regions) 16:45:17 right, we need to identify those to reallocate accordingly 16:45:18 sesivany: is the Flock budget the same as last year? 16:45:42 1. it includes costs of premier events which is a different budget that is treated differently. 16:46:11 2. costs that are not related to NA budget haven't been excluded. 16:47:34 3. NA got even more money than last year even though they did the worst job in budgeting and tracking expenses. 16:48:50 +1 for 1. budget for Flock and FUDCon should be separated. 16:49:13 and I do not know why 2 and 3 happened :( 16:49:21 having premier events in our budget will help us identify expenses that we were not aware before 16:50:42 all I can do now is to change APAC budget allocation (a big change since we proposed) 16:50:50 then try to keep it tracked 16:51:07 lets see if we need to ask for more money or not 16:51:12 yn1v: any example? Budgets are also tools of responsibility. You cannot mix expenses that have different parties as their owners. 16:51:53 yn1v: they have completely different processes to plan and approve. 16:51:56 yn1v, we manage budget for regional ambassadors (and a bit for FAmSCo) only 16:52:26 not for FUDCon and Flock (which responsible to event owners) 16:52:47 why would Flock budget be in EMEA budget if we have zero control over how it's spent? 16:52:59 last fiscal year reports did not match because there were expenses related to fudcon that were not paid by means that famsco can trac 16:53:00 sesivany: +1 16:53:23 we even do not know how much for Flock 16:53:46 tuanta: 80k 16:54:00 or do I remember it wrong? 16:54:10 robyduck, so the whole budget in Q2? 16:54:14 oh 16:54:24 EMEA has no budget in Q2? 16:54:24 sorry ... "means that famsaco can't track" 16:54:51 ah no, tuanta, 80k is Q2 which includes FLOCK, sorry 16:55:13 but we will not be far away from this 16:55:13 so, Flock budget maybe 50-60k or something 16:55:19 even more 16:55:22 the problem is we do not know 16:55:35 yn1v: I still don't understand how it would help to have it in one budget? It either comes from the premier event budget and that's in change of the organizers, Ruth and Robyn, or it comes from the regional budget and it needs to be approved by the local community and tracked there. If the regional community wants to support with money from their budget, there is no problem and it's trackable in the regional budget. 16:56:18 +1 sesivany 16:56:42 yes we had it always like this 16:56:42 As I see, if that is in our budget, next year we will know how much flock it was, no matter that we did not have control over it 16:57:51 same as fudcon, like jsmith not being reimbursed and we were not aware of that 16:58:19 yn1v: +1 16:58:35 I see that change as having the big picture, but also is more things to follow up. 16:58:40 yn1v: it's a matter of summing up two numbers: Flock budget + a Flock expense in the regional budget. Nothing more if you track expenses properly. 16:59:39 yn1v: The fact that I haven't been reimbursed is my own fault 16:59:45 that was last year issue with latam budget, we had blind spots and thing were not completely separated to be able to just add them together. 16:59:50 yn1v: how is jsmith's case caused by not having everything in one budget? If he was supposed to reimbursed, then it was supposed to be approved in one of the budgets. 17:00:23 jsmith, sure. But it seems wrong not knowing the pending issue 17:02:23 we are facing a change on how budget is accounted for. It is a change and we need to work it out. 17:02:46 Budget for FY2012 is a hot topic. We are over the time now. 17:03:14 yn1v: if you think that having FUDCon LATAM and the LATAM regional budget in one budget is beneficial to you, I have no problem with that. I just think it's mixing expenses with different parties accountable for them. What I completely refuse is to have a Flock budget in our regional budget because we have zero control over how it's spent and those two budgets are completely separated. 17:03:27 yn1v, FUDCon expenses should be accounted separately in the FUDCon 17:03:33 it would be easier 17:04:39 sesivany, I understand your point about flock. 17:04:43 sesivany, it is the same in APAC, both are completely separated 17:05:16 and I really want to have FUDCon budget tracked separately 17:05:18 I don't really want the budget, I just want the info. 17:05:39 what info, yn1v? 17:05:44 the expenses? 17:05:50 right? 17:05:51 yes 17:05:55 tuanta: yes, we're over time. We should probably continue at the next meeting and in the thread in the mailing list. I will definitely raise the concerns there. 17:06:03 yes, we are talking about that 17:06:36 sesivany: +1 17:06:37 both estimated budget and actual expenses 17:06:54 ok, we need to discuss this more over the list 17:07:03 +1 17:07:31 ok, guys, it was a productive discussion, let's continue with it later. 17:07:47 an action for sesivany? 17:07:59 we should head this up again on the list 17:08:30 #info FAmSCo was discussing budgets for FY2015 and will continue with it at the next meeting and in the mailing list. 17:08:46 meet you next week! 17:08:53 ok, see you 17:09:17 yes, see you 17:09:33 #endmeeting