16:00:05 <cwickert> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-06-03
16:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun  3 16:00:05 2014 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:18 <cwickert> #meetingname FAmSCo 2013-06-03
16:00:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2013-06-03'
16:00:31 <cwickert> #chair cwickert tuanta
16:00:31 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert tuanta
16:00:38 <cwickert> #topic Roll call
16:00:49 <cwickert> ping, who is here for the famsco meeting?
16:00:54 <tuanta> .hellomynameis tuanta
16:00:55 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
16:01:03 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
16:01:03 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
16:01:14 <tuanta> ping lbazan masta
16:01:21 <tuanta> ping yn1v
16:01:31 <cwickert> #chair lbazan masta yn1v
16:01:31 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert lbazan masta tuanta yn1v
16:01:31 <tuanta> ping robyduck
16:01:40 <cwickert> #chair robyduck
16:01:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert lbazan masta robyduck tuanta yn1v
16:01:41 <yn1v> .fas yn1v
16:01:41 <zodbot> yn1v: yn1v 'Neville A. Cross' <yn1v@taygon.com>
16:01:52 * yn1v Nicaragua
16:02:16 <lbazan> .fas lbazan
16:02:18 <zodbot> lbazan: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
16:02:23 <tuanta> we missed Jiri only
16:02:37 * cwickert tries to reach him
16:03:44 <cwickert> Jiri will join us in a minute, I suggest we just wait
16:03:59 <cwickert> #chair sesivany
16:03:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert lbazan masta robyduck sesivany tuanta yn1v
16:04:12 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
16:04:12 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
16:04:16 <sesivany> hi everyone
16:04:23 <lbazan> sesivany: morning!
16:04:26 <tuanta> hi sesivany
16:04:30 <cwickert> #info All 7 FAmSCo members present. yay!
16:04:42 <cwickert> #topic Announcements
16:04:47 <sesivany> wow, that's something we should celebrate :)
16:05:05 <lbazan> xD
16:05:20 <sesivany> I've got one... it's more like a message.
16:05:21 <cwickert> #info Robyn has stepped down as FPL and Matthew Miller is the new FPL, see https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2014-June/003215.html
16:05:56 <cwickert> #info FAmSCo would like to thank Robyn for her work as FPL. There are no words to describe what she has done for us and means for us.
16:05:57 <sesivany> that's an important announcement...
16:06:13 <tuanta> +1 cwickert
16:06:40 <cwickert> #info FAmSCo is looking forward to work with Matthew, he already has some interesting ideas about governance in Fedora.next which also affect us and the ambassadors
16:06:45 <cwickert> sesivany: your turn
16:06:58 * robyduck is here, I'm always late (trains...). Sorry.
16:07:52 <sesivany> #info FUDCon APAC 2014 in Beijing was really successful. The level of organization was exceptional.
16:08:01 <robyduck> sesivany: +1
16:08:38 <sesivany> we should encourage the APAC community to start thinking about the next location soon.
16:08:40 <tuanta> great to hear that, sesivany
16:09:12 <sesivany> that's all from me in terms of announcements.
16:09:28 <tuanta> we will do, sesivany
16:09:32 <cwickert> thanks sesivany
16:09:36 <cwickert> anything else?
16:09:38 <lbazan> !
16:09:41 <lbazan> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/365
16:09:54 <cwickert> .famsco 365
16:09:54 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/365
16:10:10 <cwickert> #topic Leonardo Vaz - Stepping down the mentor role
16:10:17 * cwickert reads
16:11:28 <robyduck> .fasinfo delete
16:11:29 <zodbot> robyduck: User: delete, Name: Matías Kreder, email: mkreder@gmail.com, Creation: 2009-06-01, IRC Nick: delete, Timezone: America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 2048R/54A62E60, Status: active
16:11:32 <zodbot> robyduck: Approved Groups: fedorabugs packager ambassadors cla_fedora cla_done freemedia marketing +fedora-socialmedia cla_fpca
16:12:09 <sesivany> lbazan: the LATAM community is ok with the change?
16:12:57 <robyduck> lbazan: I don't know Matias, can you tell us something?
16:13:00 <cwickert> lbazan: what is FAS name of the old mentor?
16:13:03 <lbazan> I'll take it to the meeting of Wednesday - Fedora Ambassador meeting (latam)
16:13:17 <cwickert> .fas ivaz
16:13:17 <zodbot> cwickert: ivazquez 'Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams' <ivazqueznet@gmail.com> - schiwax 'ahmed shivaz' <micromiyaru@gmail.com>
16:13:50 <cwickert> .fas lvaz
16:13:53 <zodbot> cwickert: lmvaz 'Leonardo Menezes Vaz' <leonardo.vaz@gmail.com>
16:14:00 <cwickert> that's the right one I guess
16:14:10 <cwickert> .fasinfo lvaz
16:14:11 <zodbot> cwickert: User "lvaz" doesn't exist
16:14:21 <cwickert> .fasinfo lmvaz
16:14:23 <zodbot> cwickert: User: lmvaz, Name: Leonardo Menezes Vaz, email: leonardo.vaz@gmail.com, Creation: 2009-01-27, IRC Nick: lvaz, Timezone: America/Sao_Paulo, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 1024D/A4743E5C, Status: active
16:14:24 <lbazan> Leonardo Vaz - brasil
16:14:26 <zodbot> cwickert: Approved Groups: cla_fpca cla_done cla_fedora
16:14:39 <lbazan> cwickert: the fas is lmvaz :-)
16:14:47 <cwickert> lbazan: hold on
16:14:54 <robyduck> was he mentor without being ambassador?
16:14:55 <sesivany> cwickert: you might have met Leonardo at FOSDEM or DevConf this year.
16:15:05 <cwickert> lmvaz is not even an ambassador
16:15:21 <lbazan> no no wait
16:15:25 <tuanta> seems lmvaz is not an ambassador or mentor
16:15:27 <sesivany> that's weird because he should be.
16:15:36 <tuanta> .fasinfo tuanta
16:15:37 <zodbot> tuanta: User: tuanta, Name: Truong Anh Tuan, email: tuanta@iwayvietnam.com, Creation: 2008-09-27, IRC Nick: tuanta, Timezone: Asia/Ho_Chi_Minh, Locale: en, GPG key ID: EF8D50BF, Status: active
16:15:40 <zodbot> tuanta: Approved Groups: @famsco @ambassadors @gitfama freemedia cla_fedora cla_done packager fedorabugs cla_fpca
16:16:46 <lbazan> he's leaving the group of ambassadors...
16:16:54 <tuanta> .fasinfo lvaz
16:16:56 <zodbot> tuanta: User "lvaz" doesn't exist
16:17:15 <cwickert> I don't see Leo at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor either
16:17:58 <tuanta> yes, we can not find him
16:18:21 <cwickert> and I cannot find him in FAMAs trac either
16:18:40 <tuanta> he may remove himself
16:18:46 <sesivany> lbazan: please talk to him and clear the situation about his status.
16:18:51 <tuanta> I can see in the wiki history
16:18:52 <lbazan> sesivany: ok
16:19:00 <sesivany> I don't think we should make any decision today.
16:19:14 <lbazan> sesivany: ok
16:19:22 <tuanta> #link https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor&diff=378482&oldid=377192
16:19:22 <yn1v> I feel that we are looking two different issues here
16:19:23 <cwickert> so before we make somebody a new mentor, I would like to know what the old mentor has done.
16:19:29 <sesivany> there is also a regional meeting on Wed where you should also discuss it before FAmSco makes a decision.
16:19:42 <lbazan> sesivany: ok
16:19:50 <cwickert> sesivany: FAmSCo does not make a decision anyway
16:19:59 <cwickert> the existing mentors do
16:20:21 <cwickert> well, we kind of make a decision
16:20:24 <sesivany> cwickert: yeah, but we can make some kind of blessing :)
16:20:46 <cwickert> first he needs to be nominated by the existing mentors
16:20:51 <cwickert> lbazan: you are a mentor, right?
16:20:56 <lbazan> cwickert: yes
16:21:10 <cwickert> ok, then I think you can nominate him
16:21:11 <yn1v> We have one issue about filling up a mentor appointment and in the other hand if there was a mistake with giving lmvaz the mentor status not being a ambassador
16:21:30 <lbazan> I'm taking this to the list of mentors for general review.
16:21:44 <cwickert> !
16:22:00 <lbazan> cwickert: ok
16:22:09 <cwickert> I suggest we look at the two things here
16:22:21 <cwickert> one is the new mentor, the other is the process
16:22:36 <lbazan> ok
16:22:43 * robyduck agrees with cwickert, let's not mix up the two things
16:22:49 <cwickert> for the new mentor, I suggest you first discuss this with the local community
16:22:57 <cwickert> does everybody agree?
16:23:00 <lbazan> cwickert: +1
16:23:04 <robyduck> cwickert: +1
16:23:13 <yn1v> +1
16:23:22 <sesivany> +1
16:23:45 <cwickert> +1
16:24:02 <cwickert> #action lbazan to discuss the proposed new mentor Matias Kreder ('delete') in the LATAM meeting and get back with the result to us
16:24:21 <lbazan> :)
16:24:22 * tuanta gives +1 too
16:24:23 <cwickert> we will confirm him if the local community is ok with him
16:24:50 <cwickert> should we request the mentors to discuss this, too, on the mailing list?
16:25:16 <lbazan> cwickert: +1
16:25:24 * cwickert wonders if lbazan's nomination actually counts or if it requires more than one mentor to nominate a new candidate
16:25:24 <robyduck> at least LATAM mentors
16:25:49 <cwickert> #action lbazan also ask the mentors for feedback about Matias
16:26:04 <cwickert> ok, I think that's all for this particular case
16:26:10 <lbazan> cwickert: yes!
16:26:14 <sesivany> cwickert: do we have a clear process description of how one can become a mentor?
16:26:16 <robyduck> cwickert: normally one mentor is enough to propose a new mentor, and FAmSCo approve him by voting
16:26:27 <cwickert> anything else on Matias before we move on to the more general problem of the process?
16:26:29 <sesivany> I haven't been able to find it now.
16:26:29 <robyduck> the proposal can be done also by a FAmSCo member
16:27:01 <cwickert> sesivany: let me dig it up for ypou
16:27:47 <cwickert> quote from https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor : "Prospective mentors are nominated by existing Mentors and confirmed by FAmSCo"
16:28:11 <sesivany> ok, so we do have to make a decision.
16:28:14 <tuanta> yes, that is the current process, cwickert
16:28:55 <yn1v> Along the years it has changed, it was a FAmSCo invitation, but FAmSCo was always relayed on local mentors to validate the decision
16:29:14 <cwickert> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-07/fedora-meeting.2010-01-07-18.06.log.html#l-279
16:29:33 <cwickert> yn1v: as far as I know this is still the recent process
16:29:50 <sesivany> I remember we also discussed a while back if the regional communities can nominate mentors.
16:29:52 <cwickert> I mean, as long as I hear nothing new, I take the wiki is correct
16:30:29 <cwickert> we also discussed this at Milan, robyduck, sesivany, do you remember? kital was not there but Gerold was
16:30:33 <robyduck> yes the wiki is correct, and sesivany yes we discussed it time ago, but without a concrete decision
16:30:37 <cwickert> so one of the 'old' folks
16:30:48 <robyduck> cwickert: it was in Paris I think
16:30:49 <cwickert> I think we should formalize the process a bit
16:30:57 <cwickert> robyduck: right, paris
16:30:58 <robyduck> cwickert: +1
16:31:01 <lbazan> cwickert: +1
16:31:07 <cwickert> let us open a new ticket for that
16:31:12 <sesivany> cwickert: in what way?
16:31:14 <tuanta> I think we need to confirm the nomination (by voting)
16:31:27 <cwickert> sesivany: I want to have this at least documented
16:31:33 <tuanta> that's meaning of above quotes
16:31:34 <yn1v> +1
16:31:37 <cwickert> like the vote should happen in Fama trac
16:31:45 <cwickert> or FAmSCo trac
16:31:47 <sesivany> cwickert: ok, I agree.
16:32:21 <tuanta> a ticket has been opened in FAmSCo Trac now, so we can follow it
16:32:32 <tuanta> to vote on
16:32:43 <cwickert> and we should have a process, but a very lightweight one: "1: To nominate, file a ticket here, 2, To confirm it needs to be discussed on the mentors list, 3. FAmSCo appoints the person"
16:33:03 <cwickert> or along the lines of this, but I don't want to add too much red tape
16:33:12 <tuanta> +1. That is simple enough
16:33:36 <sesivany> cwickert: I think we should also have an opinion from the local community.
16:33:49 <cwickert> sesivany: right
16:33:59 * cwickert was thinking of something like: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_sponsor_a_new_contributor#Becoming_a_Fedora_Package_Collection_Sponsor
16:34:04 <sesivany> for me their opinion is more valid than opinions of current mentors from other regions who don't even know the candidate.
16:34:14 <cwickert> If you're a packager and feel that you are ready and would like to move up to sponsor status, simply file a ticket in the packager sponsors ticket system.   These tickets are automatically sent to the sponsors list.  A report  will be added containing information on your reviewed and  owned/comaintained packages, but feel free to provide additional  information that can't easily be found such as informal reviews done or  prospective packagers you
16:34:28 <cwickert> something similar to this should do I think
16:34:36 <robyduck> sesivany: agree, there were some concerns about nominating only by mentors indeed
16:34:37 <cwickert> except that people don't nominate themselves
16:34:49 <cwickert> robyduck: famsco and mentors then?
16:35:25 <robyduck> cwickert: can't follow you, you mean nominating?
16:35:56 <yn1v> no self nomination, some people see mentor as a next level and request mentoring status just because of the status
16:36:09 <cwickert> +1
16:36:17 <robyduck> +1
16:36:26 <tuanta> +1
16:36:43 <cwickert> #action cwickert to file a ticket about the process to become a mentor
16:37:00 <robyduck> cool
16:37:00 <sesivany> we were also thinking about giving that right to the communities. So for example if they get 5 votes of ambassadors at the regional meeting, they can nominate the person.
16:37:04 <lbazan> +1
16:37:24 <sesivany> not sure if it's necessary. They can also ask a mentor in their region to do it.
16:37:36 <cwickert> sesivany: I think we still need a confirmation from famsco and the existing mentors
16:37:58 <sesivany> cwickert: I was only talking about nomination, not approving.
16:38:05 <tuanta> be careful, sesivany. I prefer just existing mentors can nominate new ones
16:38:34 <tuanta> they are people who know exact if they need more resources or not
16:38:36 <robyduck> sesivany: I don't know if we should add 5 votes of the local community, mentors should nominate and perhaps the new mentor should be discussed first in the local community, for  final FAmSCo appointing
16:39:02 <cwickert> or something like packager sponsor: the mentors have 1 week to speak up. if there is +5, the candidate is confirmed by the mentors and the finaly say is at FAmSco. If there is any negative votes, this needs to be discussed further
16:39:12 <cwickert> anyway, let's keep it simple
16:39:13 <sesivany> robyduck: it shouldn't be an additional condition, but another way to nominate a mentor.
16:39:33 <robyduck> ok
16:40:19 <sesivany> frankly I would avoid double approval. Mentors nominate, FAmSCo approves. Simple.
16:40:33 <robyduck> I'm fine with it, but as cwickert said, let's not add too much red tape here.
16:40:36 <robyduck> sesivany: +1
16:40:54 <cwickert> ok, I will draft something and send it to famsco list for discussion
16:41:00 <cwickert> anything else on this now?
16:41:01 <robyduck> thanks cwickert
16:41:08 <tuanta> thanks cwickert
16:41:38 <sesivany> robyduck: from what I understood it was like: 1. a mentor nominates, 2. mentors approve, 3. FAmSCo confirms and appoints. I would remove the second step.
16:42:14 <tuanta> +1 sesivany. that's enough, I think.
16:42:43 <cwickert> sesivany: I wouldn't, but we will figure this out
16:43:06 <cwickert> Should we move on? does anybody have another topic to discuss?
16:43:24 <tuanta> af, I got your point, sesivany. step #2 should not be removed
16:44:00 <sesivany> I think it should, it's unnecessary red tape, but that's a discussion for the ticket.
16:44:13 <tuanta> ok
16:44:37 <sesivany> I would discuss the status of fudcon latam, and maybe the first steps for apac next year.
16:45:21 <lbazan> sesivany: +1
16:45:54 <sesivany> #topic FUDCon LATAM and APAC
16:46:11 <sesivany> lbazan, yn1v: any updates?
16:46:23 <tuanta> for APAC next year, there is a candidate, Singapore, but we need to confirm with organizing team
16:46:39 <yn1v> Last week I went to the university to confirm dates
16:46:53 * cwickert needs to leave soon. sesivany, please take over chairing the meeting, lbazan, don't forget to update the ticket with the results of today's discussion
16:46:57 <yn1v> go ahead tuanta ...
16:47:06 <lbazan> cwickert: ok
16:47:16 <tuanta> yn1v, you can go
16:47:43 * lbazan xD
16:47:56 <tuanta> and the dates have been confirmed or not?
16:48:09 <yn1v> looks like we will having fudcon one week earlier Octuber 23-25 instead of octuber 30-31 and Nov 1
16:48:43 <yn1v> They said yes to everything, but at last moment said that they will need a bit of confirmation
16:49:02 <yn1v> to avoid collision with activities from other departments
16:49:37 <yn1v> I supposed to get the confirmation yesterday by email... I will write after meeting to see how it is going
16:49:44 <sesivany> #info FUDCon LATAM might take place one week earlier - Oct 23-25.
16:50:28 <yn1v> I think that will be easier to advertise dates within the same month ;-)
16:51:27 <yn1v> I feel it is just matter of formality from the university, that it will be confirmed
16:52:06 <sesivany> yn1v: what about travel subsidies? Are they going on already?
16:52:20 <yn1v> date change was to allow students to attend the event without overlapping examination/test week
16:52:44 <yn1v> No, we haven't open a call for papers because of the date
16:53:24 <lbazan> yn1v: when you start the meetings in fudconplanning?
16:53:25 <yn1v> I will press for an answer so we can send the call for papers as soon as possible
16:54:07 <yn1v> mmm don't know ... next week
16:54:35 <sesivany> yn1v: ok, keep us updated.
16:54:36 <yn1v> lbazan, any day hour suggested for fudconmeetings ?
16:55:29 <lbazan> yn1v: depends on their availability
16:55:30 <tuanta> World Cup is coming, so you should start soon
16:55:40 <lbazan> tuanta: :o +1
16:56:17 <yn1v> I will send a mail to local collaborators to ask for time/day for meetings
16:57:01 <tuanta> yn1v, you can create a whenisgood or doodle  for getting votes
16:57:25 <lbazan> mmmm yn1v you need the instance in trac
16:57:54 * tuanta has to go in two minutes
16:58:15 <sesivany> I will have to go too.
16:58:32 <tuanta> so we can close the meeting in time
16:58:36 <yn1v> yes, I do need to have "fudcon latam 2014 " as a category/marker/whaever in trac
16:58:40 <sesivany> lbazan, yn1v: that's something you can figure out yourselves in LATAM.
16:59:00 <sesivany> I'm ending the meeting in one minute.
16:59:04 <lbazan> sesivany: ok
16:59:31 <yn1v> I will log in at fudcon planning trac and se who is administrator and request the changes
17:01:34 <sesivany> #endmeeting