19:01:15 #startmeeting F21 Alpha Readiness Meeting 19:01:15 Meeting started Thu Sep 4 19:01:15 2014 UTC. The chair is jreznik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:01:15 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:01:24 #meetingname f21-alpha-readiness-meeting 19:01:25 The meeting name has been set to 'f21-alpha-readiness-meeting' 19:01:37 #topic Purpose of this meeting 19:01:38 #info "Before each public release all of the groups participating the development of Fedora's next release meet to make sure the release is well coordinated." 19:01:40 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Readiness_Meetings 19:01:53 #topic Roll Call 19:01:59 .fas eischmann 19:02:00 sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' 19:02:05 .fas gnokii 19:02:07 gnokii: gnokii 'Sirko Kemter' 19:02:07 .fas robyduck 19:02:09 robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' 19:02:20 .fas pfrields 19:02:21 stickster: pfrields 'Paul W. Frields' 19:02:27 hey everyone, this time roll call is important as we have badges for active participants, thanks to robyduck! 19:02:39 .fas roshi 19:02:40 lol 19:02:40 roshi: roshitha33 'Roshitha Perera' - roshini 'roshini ravikumar' - porochan 'hiroshi hisano' - hiroshi 'hiro' - fukushima 'Hiroshi Fukushima' - hiro4yamada 'Hiroshi Yamada' - ptadi 'Prasad Tadi' - oqto 'Hiroshi Yamauchi' - (1 more message) 19:02:42 \o/ 19:02:52 * satellit listening 19:02:56 .fas jzb 19:02:57 jzb: jzb 'Joe Brockmeier' - jzbl 'Denise Gant' 19:03:01 * nirik is here 19:03:05 #link https://badges.fedoraproject.org/badge/readiness 19:03:12 .hellomynameis jzb 19:03:13 jzb: jzb 'Joe Brockmeier' 19:03:17 I wonder if what roshi just did will work :-) 19:03:26 .fas mailga 19:03:26 .hellomynameis sgallagh 19:03:27 mailga: mailga 'Gabriele Trombini' 19:03:30 sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' 19:03:35 .hellomynameis roshi 19:03:36 roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' 19:03:48 :) 19:03:54 don't mind me, just testing stickster :p 19:04:10 roshi: you're testing stickster? 19:04:11 hee hee 19:04:18 roshi: does he have a test plan? 19:04:20 ...perhaps? 19:04:26 DON'T TEST ME ZONKER 19:04:38 Don't test me, bro? 19:04:47 the important question is where do I file bugs on stickster? 19:04:47 will stickster get go or no-go? :) 19:04:48 hello. 19:04:52 or is that about stickster ? 19:04:57 well, everything seems to be good with stickster, though I'll have to administer a proper turing test later 19:04:58 OK, serious face. :-| 19:05:02 .fas pjones 19:05:03 :p 19:05:03 pjones: pjones 'Peter Jones' - dieseldog 'Philip Jones' 19:05:17 hey, there's some other one now. and he's nearly got my brother's name. 19:05:33 let's move on, to give stickster peace :) 19:05:34 #topic Current status 19:06:14 so the current status for Fedora 21 Alpha as of Go/No-Go meeting is we are No-Go - we don't have Release Candidate and we have outstanding open blocker bugs 19:06:39 *sad trombone 19:06:41 even the blocker list looks pretty good, there's one bug that will require quite a lot of coordination to move on 19:07:00 On the plus side, almost all of those outstanding bugs are at least claimed to be fixed and ready for the next TC 19:07:05 :-( 19:07:17 sgallagh: yeah, that's great 19:07:39 I'm just updating schedule and will send note about it after this meeting 19:07:57 jreznik: so another attempt next week? 19:08:13 The only one that's contentious right now (that I know about) is how to handle the mirrors/install trees 19:08:32 sesivany: yeah, another attempt next week, we will see how hard 1134524 will be 19:08:45 the bug sgallagh talks about 19:09:00 .bz 1134524 19:09:24 Lazy zodbot... 19:09:27 .fire zodbot 19:09:27 adamw fires zodbot 19:09:31 but now some readiness fun from you guys, it gives us some buffer but I prefer to be ready for non eng stuff to avoid possible delays 19:10:19 sorry i am late have we gone over marketing yet 19:10:26 #topic Ambassadors 19:10:30 nope croberts 19:10:31 croberts: You're fine, just getting into round-robin 19:10:36 ok 19:10:48 sesivany: do you have anything for us? i expect media is question but more for final 19:11:18 jreznik: yep, we should be ready for alpha. The media question can be solved later. 19:12:04 What is the media question? 19:12:11 Physical media for handing out? 19:12:11 for other who does not follow ambassadors and marketing list - there's discussion regarding what media do we want for F21 to be produced - check out mktg list if you have opinion 19:12:17 sgallagh: yep 19:12:34 sgallagh: yes 19:12:48 #info Ambassadors are ready for alpha. The media question can be solved later. 19:13:20 sgallagh: take a look on the mktg list, as Server is in question, we would like to hear your/Server WG opinion 19:13:34 thanks sesivany 19:13:38 jreznik: Quick link? I'm not on that list. 19:13:57 * sgallagh anxiously awaits hyperkitty so I don't have to subscribe to *every* list in Fedora anymore 19:14:27 * jreznik is looking 19:14:41 sgallagh: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2014-September/016409.html 19:14:43 * mattdm shows up in a poof of first-week-of-school-confusion smoke 19:14:46 sgallagh: +1 19:14:57 thanks sesivany for link 19:15:23 mattdm is back to school :) 19:15:42 jreznik well the kids are :) still getting the schedule down. 19:15:52 :))) 19:15:58 sesivany: Thank you. I'll subscribe and comment 19:16:04 thanks sgallagh 19:16:07 #topic Design 19:16:23 gnokii: hello, your turn 19:16:49 alpha wallpaper done, supplemental wallpaper done, alpha banner done 19:17:07 so ready 19:17:16 #info Design is ready, alpha wallpaper done, supplemental wallpaper done, alpha banner done 19:17:32 thank you gnokii for all the work! 19:18:04 anything else needed from Design team from others? 19:18:41 gnokii++++! 19:18:50 ^ 19:19:12 seems like we can move on, thanks again 19:19:15 #topic Documentation 19:19:26 anyone from docs team? 19:20:59 * jreznik is trying to ping docs guys, let's skip for now 19:21:11 #topic FESCo 19:21:32 nirik, sgallagh, others: anything from FESCo? 19:21:47 jreznik: nothing I know of off hand. 19:21:58 should be ready to go 19:22:07 Nothing from me 19:22:21 #info FESCo is ready to go 19:22:25 thanks! 19:22:35 #topic Fedora Engineering Manager 19:23:07 stickster for the first time in your job (I think) :) 19:23:15 yup, typing too slow 19:23:38 One issue I believe is currently an issue -- but not a blocker for Alpha -- is dealing with ostree images in MirrorManager for the final release 19:23:53 Um, that was a little circular. I hate single-line editing bars :-( 19:24:24 usually we did not have much from FEM in the past but I'd like to have you here too, if you're ok with it 19:24:33 jreznik: I'm happy to be here :-) 19:24:51 * jreznik is happy stickster is happy to be here 19:24:54 Mirror issues are not limited to ostree, but that's certainly new territory. 19:24:55 haha 19:25:16 sgallagh: Yeah, viz. above issue with per-product 19:25:46 #info No issues for Fedora Engineering Manager but mentions the need of support in MirrorManager for ostree for final release 19:26:02 +1 19:26:14 Also, we're working on the MM thing :-) 19:26:20 as far as I know MirrorManager FAD is planned, stickster do you know when? 19:26:28 jreznik: That won't happen until post-F21 19:26:34 ~early December 2014 19:26:45 Unless someone here knows that F21 is going to go REALLY late ;-) 19:26:46 aha, ok 19:26:52 stickster: ouch! 19:26:55 stickster: nooo! 19:27:18 Which it better not, see? 19:27:36 #info MirrorManager FAD is planned post-F21 - early December 2014 19:28:12 * sgallagh asserts that F21 will ship in 2014, even if it's broken :-/ 19:28:23 sgallagh: +1 19:28:35 amen to that 19:28:41 well, we really have to take closer look on MM even pre-MM FAD :( 19:29:02 anything else stickster? 19:29:04 jreznik: The FAD is more about the next-gen MM2. We have a separate effort to fix MM for ostree. 19:29:27 nothing more here jreznik, sorry to drag on ;-) 19:29:28 stickster: aha, I understand 19:29:39 just like talking to me in real life ;-D 19:29:47 #topic Fedora Project Leader 19:29:53 oh hi! 19:30:00 mattdm: hi :) 19:30:30 I am at this point still mostly catching up on what's going on. I don't think I have anything particular to add. 19:31:06 mattdm: To sum up, you owe everyone beers. 19:31:10 #info FPL does not have anything particular 19:31:15 stickster: probably perpetually, yes :) 19:31:24 * mattdm pours beers for everyone 19:31:36 mattdm: I'll take mine in person next time you're in the office, thanks ;-) 19:32:05 * jreznik is drinking burcak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federweisser) to make this meeting easier for him, not beer 19:32:19 aka best time to visit brno :) 19:32:36 moving on, thanks mattdm 19:32:50 #topic Marketing 19:33:01 croberts, jzb: your turn 19:33:16 and release announcement as the topic I'd say 19:33:19 so, alpha release announcement is about 60% done 19:33:36 I'll finish that up today and tomorrow. It'll be more than ready by the time we have an alpha TC 19:33:49 EOF 19:33:50 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F21_Alpha_release_announcement 19:33:53 thanks jzb 19:34:11 #info Marketing - alpha release announcement is about 60% done 19:34:13 tasks leading up to alpha are complete, ie update the wiki for f21 placeholders, and remove f20 content. Also we have overlooked the bookmarks and made sure those are correct. although with Fedora Next that will probally need an update 19:34:25 we are on trac to hit our goals 19:34:34 thanks croberts 19:34:50 croberts: I see what you did there 19:34:54 "on trac" 19:34:55 one question we discussed on the list is release announcement for products 19:34:57 ;) 19:35:34 I think the consensus *for now* was a unified release for alpha & beta 19:35:36 for now it looks like for alpha/beta we will have one announcement for all products, for final each product will have own announcement with umbrella F21 release announcement 19:35:42 jzb: yeah 19:35:43 yeah, that 19:35:44 :-) 19:35:46 Sounds good 19:35:49 yep 19:35:50 * randomuser joins late 19:36:05 and this is what Workstation guys agreed on, sgallagh, mattdm: it's good you're on board 19:36:16 if you have any further comments - marketing list 19:36:35 * mattdm nods 19:36:41 Technically, I don't speak for the entire WG. But unless nirik wants to contradict me, I think we can go with it. 19:36:48 it's really for final and it would be a bit more work for everyone, so we would have to start working on it a bit earlier 19:36:59 sgallagh ditto cloud. 19:37:02 jreznik: thanks for resuming the release announcements also for Beta and Final ;) 19:37:04 sgallagh: I know, if you can talk to Server WG 19:37:05 * nirik agrees with sgallagh. ;) 19:37:44 well, it's more about who's going to write it - it would require some coordination between marketing and WGs 19:38:05 * sgallagh nods 19:38:25 so I'll try to poke you guys in advance when it's needed :) 19:38:25 jreznik: I can do cloud, obviously 19:38:46 and can help with workstation + server 19:38:50 great jzb! 19:38:54 I've asked mizmo and tuanta to be our voices for marketing purposes, but I'll help where needed 19:39:37 ok, we will coordinate for final but also it's a good time to put some effort into alpha announcement if you have anything you'd like to mention there 19:39:54 I'll shoot a note to the marketing list when I'm done with the first draft 19:40:06 ok, awesome, thanks jzb 19:40:13 \o/ 19:40:22 anythiing else related to announcement/marketing? 19:40:26 one thing... 19:40:41 it would be great if one person from each wg would write a "state of..." for Fedora Magazine 19:40:41 go ahead 19:40:47 for the alpha 19:40:48 +1 19:40:53 we're always looking for stuff for the magazine 19:41:08 and a more conversational piece focusing on each product/wg would be good 19:41:12 ok 19:41:23 may also help provide a point person to look to for people to get involved 19:41:38 "oh, so sgallagh is on the server wg, I can ping him if I want to help" 19:41:41 etc. 19:41:45 #info Marketing team asks for if one person from each wg would write a "state of..." for Fedora Magazine for Alpha 19:41:50 If there's anyone that doesn't know that by now, I can't help them :) 19:42:02 jzb: I'm your huckleberry for Workstation. jwb has plenty to do already. 19:42:04 sgallagh: You'd be surprised ... 19:42:09 stickster: cool 19:42:29 that's it from me. 19:42:30 Yeah, I assume I'll be the server rep 19:42:37 croberts is the man, though 19:42:57 jzb: :) 19:43:01 maybe we could have also one artcile covering what we can expect from Alpha as the whole release but I can't promise anything now 19:43:27 it would be nice to get some thing for each stage maybe start small with alpha 19:43:33 then get bigger as we get to beta/final 19:44:05 the articles dont have to be massive but enough to get people an insight of whats going in each wg as we prepare for f21 19:44:06 yeah, I'll think about it, just with Akademy happening tomorrow for a week and trying to release Alpha, it would be harder :) 19:44:25 jreznik: maybe something to consider for the beta 19:44:49 ok, thanks guys - I'll move on and as randomuser is here, let's go back to docs 19:45:03 #topic Documentation 19:45:12 hi 19:45:13 randomuser: anything from docs for Alpha? 19:45:16 hi! 19:45:44 so, for general scope things I think we're in good shape; changes, critpath stuff, etc 19:46:30 the product specific things will need to be written out soon, I think we'll have a lot there for Beta but not a whole lot beyond an overview for Alpha 19:47:10 I'm pleased with how the workgroups have been working mostly transparently; that makes our job much easier 19:47:29 but if you have specific concerns, you can bring them up now, or later through the normal channels 19:47:39 +1 for WGs to work transparently to help other teams! 19:48:14 It's almost like we're remembering how Open Source works! 19:48:28 heh. ideally, we'd write a dedicated guide for each Product, but unfortunately the manpower just isn't there 19:48:42 #info Documentation is in a good shape, changes, critpath stuff, etc, the product specific things will need to be written out soon but for Beta 19:48:50 (it's awesome to see so much going on in the workstation wg recently, btw!) 19:49:07 indeed 19:49:41 for the Alpha announcement, we can link to the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats page, perhaps with an obligatory WIP advisory 19:49:57 jzb: ^^^ 19:50:04 s/obligatory/perfunctory/ 19:50:39 since we're all here, does anyone have concerns I can bring back to the docs team? 19:50:52 ack 19:51:40 maybe can we get more hands from WGs to help you with dedicated guides for each product? it would be probably more longer term effort than F21 but... 19:51:46 what we used to do is write a wiki page for alpha release notes 19:52:18 let me see if i can find an old one 19:52:20 adamw: for the last few releases we just link alpha release notes to alpha announcement for Alpha 19:52:22 jreznik: Having done docs in the past, I think grabbing more maintainers/propellerheads to write docs is not that effective 19:52:32 yeah, e.g. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_17_Alpha_release_notes 19:52:52 But that's a long term effort, tangential to this meeting 19:52:54 adamw, we've been spending the one-page time on making the end product better 19:53:02 roger 19:53:40 what is the state of F21 Common Bugs? Still too early I guess? 19:53:50 robyduck: it's quite early 19:53:59 ok 19:54:10 but adamw is the master of common bugs 19:54:28 lol 19:54:28 jreznik, for dedicated guides or anything else, just open communication on the WG's expectations and progress is best 19:54:33 i usually put the first one together after we do 'go' on alpha 19:54:39 when there's enough content, a guide will soon follow 19:54:58 but it can be populated earlire if it makes any sense 19:55:01 randomuser: yep, content is pre-req 19:55:18 the communication thing goes both ways, of course :) 19:55:32 randomuser: Did you say something? 19:55:33 robyduck: any reason why you're looking for common bugs now? 19:55:49 * randomuser elbow jabs sgallagh 19:55:51 we have a link on websites 19:56:02 * robyduck wants to avoid dead links :) 19:56:21 maybe we can create at least WIP placeholder 19:56:35 randomuser: I vote we just have one massive mailing list to enhance communication. 19:56:47 * jzb ducks 19:56:47 jzb: you mean devel? :) 19:56:55 jreznik: heh. pretty close. 19:57:10 ok, we're running out of time, let's move on 19:57:12 ha! two would be better; one for work and one fedora-flamewars@lists.fp.o 19:57:30 flamework is hard work! 19:57:36 flamewar 19:57:48 it requires skills! 19:57:52 and badges! 19:58:04 moving on 19:58:05 #topic Infrastructure 19:58:07 okay, okay, i've derailed this enough; docs EOF 19:58:19 nirik: anything for infra? 19:58:26 we should be all set. No particular problems pending that I know of... 19:58:48 I expect MirrorManager work will end in the infra team, right? 19:58:54 robyduck: i can easily throw a quick stub together (and a note that as of right now, nothing works ;>) 19:59:02 just to make sure it's moving... 19:59:12 adamw: no worries, the alpha link is not online right now 19:59:22 :D 19:59:32 * robyduck likes the note 19:59:41 === NOTHING WORKS === 20:00:29 adamw: I really need to create a package named 'nothing' that has an executable that always returns true. 20:00:48 #info Infrastructure - no particular problems pending 20:00:54 jreznik: yes, we would fold that mm work in when ready 20:01:22 let's coordinate work needed in the bug, thanks 20:01:36 3 teams to go and it's top of the hour :) 20:01:40 #topic Websites 20:01:52 robyduck: your turn to earn badge! 20:01:59 haha 20:02:08 Websites are mostly set, still need to figure out final paths of the images we are shipping 20:02:20 The most doubts we have are about Cloud and ARM 20:02:21 #info Websites are mostly set, still need to figure out final paths of the images we are shipping 20:02:35 The remaining tasks can be done only once we have a RC defined as GO 20:02:39 #info doubts about Cloud and ARM 20:02:53 robyduck: any help needed from mattdm and Cloud WG? 20:02:57 so is there a mockup or something somewhere where we can see how the various products will be presented? 20:03:06 to see if we note any problems/missing things 20:03:07 ? 20:03:15 adamw: yes 20:03:17 adamw: http://stg.fedoraproject.org/en/get-prerelease 20:03:22 thx 20:03:26 https://stg.fedoraproject.org/en/get-prerelease 20:03:33 oh, jreznik is too fast 20:03:39 * robyduck wants to add something for final: For Final release, websites need much more feedback and informations from the single Working Groups. 20:03:44 * jreznik is fast as a wind 20:03:58 #info For Final release, websites need much more feedback and informations from the single Working Groups 20:04:01 robyduck: silly q 20:04:08 robyduck: so, how do I change the copy for Cloud? 20:04:25 jzb: I don't get you 20:04:29 which copy? 20:04:36 https://stg.fedoraproject.org/en/get-prerelease#cloud 20:04:43 so, it seems we're now planning for there to be a Workstation netinst image (though...that may possibly change) 20:05:04 robyduck: how do I edit? 20:05:15 adamw: workstation told me they don't want to have the netinstall image shown there 20:05:20 jzb: if you have anything, robyduck is the right person 20:05:42 jzb: you can file a patch or just ping me and tell me what you want to change 20:05:51 robyduck: how do I file a patch? 20:05:59 like where's the source? :-) 20:06:09 cloning the web-repo and sending it to the websites trac 20:06:09 jzb: ping robyduck :) 20:06:21 we have a ticket there 20:06:24 robyduck: groovy 20:06:46 jzb: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fedora-web.git 20:07:13 are we still doing release readiness or are we OK? I'm due for another call. 20:07:30 stickster: we're about to end, two more topics but fas 20:07:31 t 20:07:33 jzb: all: if you want to change the text content please update it asap, we need to send changes out to L10n too 20:07:34 thanks for coming 20:07:47 np at all :-) 20:08:00 #info if anybody wants to change the text content please update it asap, we need to send changes out to L10n too 20:08:17 sgallagh: from Server, did you come with any change? 20:09:04 robyduck: when did they tell you that, exactly? 20:09:12 jreznik: I have one minor edit, I'll talk to robyduck directly 20:09:19 we're over time, so please talk to robyduck on #fedora-websites 20:09:22 sgallagh: thanks 20:09:25 adamw: in the 20:09:27 ML 20:09:57 adamw: I will send you the link 20:10:31 robyduck: question is 'when' not 'where' :) the status of the workstation netinst has changed in the last few days 20:10:42 a week ago? 20:10:50 adamw: it's a few days ago, I think it changed after 20:11:04 adamw: but as I said, I can't follow every state every day, if nobody tells us... 20:11:37 adamw: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/websites/2014-August/012406.html 20:11:54 august 25th 20:12:02 robyduck: sure, that's why i'm bringing it up now :) 20:12:12 i think that's recent enough, though 20:12:24 it should probably be added to the 'less important stuff' page 20:12:29 adamw: I didn't drop it, I've hidden it and can bring it back easily ;) 20:13:08 robyduck: so if you bring it back, anything from websites now? 20:13:22 yes, it's all from my side 20:13:25 thanks 20:13:32 robyduck: Update on Workstation -- https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/desktop/2014-September/010473.html (unresolved, but I'll ping) 20:13:50 thx 20:14:09 thanks robyduck 20:14:11 #topic QA 20:14:21 adamw: anything from QA? 20:14:28 except testing, testing, testing 20:16:08 testing testing testing 20:16:22 i can't think of anything specific 20:16:25 Hey, there's been a fair amount of grumbling too ;-) 20:16:36 adamw: ok 20:16:37 the netinst issue has been brought up 20:16:57 #info QA does not have anything specific, the netinst issue has been brought up 20:17:34 it's in the bug, let's see how it goes 20:18:03 thanks, moving to the last topic - this time we're bit slower but so far we had everyone, maybe badges? :) 20:18:05 bug? 20:18:31 .bug 1134524 20:18:34 jreznik: Bug 1134524 Product-ized network install images do not offer filtered group lists - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1134524 20:18:40 thanks 20:18:57 #topic Release Engineering 20:19:07 dgilmore: are you around? 20:19:29 jreznik: I really need to vanish now, sorry. 20:21:09 as it's getting late for many folks and seems like we don't have dgilmore now, I'm going to end this meeting 20:21:13 #topic Open floor 20:21:28 anything else today? 20:22:11 one question - maybe it would worth to invite WGs representatives next time as integral part of this meeting 20:22:19 jreznik yeah, +1 to that. 20:22:27 * randomuser assumed that happened 20:22:49 jreznik: +1 20:23:03 * robyduck is looking for that beer mattdm told about :) 20:23:05 randomuser: semihappend as quite a lot folks were on list for this meeting, it's more like officially and give WGs own topic 20:23:10