16:00:36 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2014-09-23
16:00:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep 23 16:00:36 2014 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:38 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
16:00:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
16:00:43 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
16:00:47 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
16:00:48 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
16:03:14 <sesivany> masta, tuanta: ping
16:03:23 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
16:03:24 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
16:03:28 <sesivany> lbazan: ping
16:03:38 <sesivany> robyduck: ping
16:03:46 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
16:03:47 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
16:04:40 * sesivany will have to leave in 35-40 minutes.
16:04:51 <robyduck> let's start then
16:05:05 <sesivany> I think Neville and Christoph sent regrets.
16:05:11 <robyduck> masta: ping
16:05:24 <sesivany> robyduck: already pinged him.
16:05:37 <robyduck> uff, sorry
16:06:08 <tuanta> so just three of us?
16:06:12 <sesivany> let's start with the mentor process.
16:06:24 <sesivany> #topic Formalize process to become a mentor
16:06:32 <sesivany> .famsco 366
16:06:32 <zodbot> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/366
16:06:54 <sesivany> I added a formal process there.
16:07:24 <sesivany> robyduck: your point about fas is right, we really don't need a special group.
16:07:48 * robyduck likes the formal process proposed
16:08:04 <sesivany> unless we have a quorum, we can't vote about it today.
16:08:08 <sesivany> but we can discuss it.
16:08:18 <sesivany> any comments on it?
16:08:35 <sesivany> I also added a process to remove a mentor to have it complete.
16:08:43 <robyduck> well I'd vote +1 for it
16:08:52 <robyduck> yes, and I like also the removal process
16:09:21 <lbazan> .fas lbazan
16:09:22 <zodbot> lbazan: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
16:09:31 <robyduck> oh quorum
16:09:34 <tuanta> hi lbazan
16:09:38 <lbazan> hi
16:09:40 <lbazan> :-)
16:09:40 <tuanta> :)
16:09:48 <sesivany> I didn't specify that the removal ticket needs to be created by a mentor, I think anyone can bring it up.
16:10:38 <sesivany> lbazan: take a look at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/366#comment:9
16:10:40 <robyduck> sesivany: I don't know, probably not anyone
16:11:01 <sesivany> we can vote about since we've reached the quorum.
16:11:37 <sesivany> robyduck: why not? do you think we would be overwhelmed by tickets? :)
16:11:37 <robyduck> we would/could have lots of tickets filed just because someone doesn't want another to be a mentor
16:11:45 <robyduck> hehe, yes
16:12:13 <sesivany> robyduck: how could we limit it then?
16:12:38 <robyduck> we could limit it to a mentor, or ask for 5 votes in a regional meeting, an official request
16:13:13 <tuanta> I agree with robyduck. a dedicated group for mentors is not necessary
16:13:22 <sesivany> robyduck: ok, let's limit it to mentors, I don't want to make it too complicated.
16:13:32 <lbazan> I think no need mentor group 1
16:13:37 <tuanta> .sponsors ambassadors
16:13:38 <zodbot> tuanta: Sponsors for ambassadors: affix azneita biertie bpowell01 cmpahar @cwickert dbruno delete eischmann @fab gbraad geroldka @herlo inode0 jbwillia @jsimon kaio ke4qqq kushal lbazan markdude @nman64 nushio paulmellors ppapadeas quaid @robert robyduck shaiton shakthimaan sundaram @susmit tatica @tuanta vwbusguy yn1v zoltanh721
16:13:49 <tuanta> it works well :)
16:14:54 <sesivany> ok, what is your opinion on limiting a right to propose mentor's removal?
16:15:07 <sesivany> should it be limited? or anyone can propose it?
16:15:30 <sesivany> if we should limit it I'm for limiting it to mentors. I don't want to make it too complicated.
16:15:46 <lbazan> must first be reviewed by regional ambassadors
16:16:09 <tuanta> sesivany, I think: no
16:16:12 <sesivany> my personal opinion is that we don't have to limit it. If it doesn't work we can always make a limitation there eventually.
16:16:40 <robyduck> works for me, let's see how it works without any limitation
16:16:44 <lbazan> and then nominating in FAmSCo ... and that's it.
16:16:52 <tuanta> for inactivity, we can set his account as inactive (similar to ambassadors)
16:17:08 <tuanta> for violation of the Code of Conduct, we have CWG
16:17:10 <lbazan> tuanta: +1
16:17:20 <tuanta> we can raise it to CWG then they will solve them
16:17:34 <tuanta> I am myself a member of CWG
16:17:53 <tuanta> we are welcome others, if really needed
16:18:07 <sesivany> tuanta: inactivity... he may be active as an ordinary ambassadors, but doesn't do his mentor's job.
16:18:37 <tuanta> it is quite difficult to measure that thing
16:19:02 <tuanta> easy to start arguement
16:19:31 <lbazan> tuanta: +1 welcome others (if necessary)
16:19:34 <sesivany> tuanta: well, I think it's pretty easy, if you haven't mentored anyone in the last... and refused candidates, then you're not an active mentor.
16:19:56 <tuanta> sesivany, mentors are experienced and long-time contributors so I believe they know how they can do at that time
16:20:14 <tuanta> they simply can set themselves as "inactive" in mentors page
16:20:15 <robyduck> sesivany: FAmA trac is useful for that
16:20:18 <yn1v> hello, I just came back to my office
16:20:18 <sesivany> but we can remove examples and leave it open. We can always assess the reason on individual basis.
16:20:23 <lbazan> yn1v: saludos!
16:20:47 <lbazan> yn1v: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/366
16:20:54 <sesivany> yn1v: discussing this: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/366#comment:9
16:21:00 <tuanta> yn1v, good morning/afternoon/evening :)
16:21:08 * lbazan hahaha
16:21:40 <sesivany> ok, I think we should remove the examples of reasons to remove a mentor and leave it open. It's more about the process than listing reasons to remove.
16:21:49 <robyduck> +1
16:22:41 <yn1v> +1
16:22:48 <tuanta> sesivany, if we do not have some specific case, I think the process may be unusable
16:22:56 <tuanta> but lets see
16:23:06 <tuanta> i am ok if you are all vote +1
16:23:11 <sesivany> tuanta: if the case is violating Code of Conduct, we can always delegate the decision if it's a violation or not to the CWG, but CWG should not have a right to remove a mentor themselves.
16:24:21 <tuanta> CWG can ask board to remove the whole FAS account in case of a really serious violation
16:24:26 <yn1v> sesivany, the CWG can deal with situations involving any collaborator?
16:25:33 <yn1v> so, we are looking at details. If CWG removes ambassadors status we shuold by defacto remove mentor status
16:25:50 <sesivany> yn1v: yes, but I think the right approach would be deciding if it's a violation or not and then forwarding it to famsco to make necessary steps based on it.
16:26:17 <sesivany> but they can overrule us probably
16:26:52 <sesivany> ok, I removed the reasons.
16:27:01 <yn1v> I don't see famsco going against a CWG decision
16:27:07 <sesivany> is it now ok for everyone?
16:27:34 * masta looks in
16:27:34 <robyduck> yes, if you want we can also vote for it
16:27:38 <masta> hey guys
16:27:43 * masta is here
16:28:21 <robyduck> masta: discussing this: https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/366#comment:9
16:28:26 <tuanta> hi masta
16:28:52 <masta> sry I'm late, quite busy at work this day.
16:28:52 <sesivany> let's give masta a bit of time to read it and object and then let's proceed to voting.
16:29:05 <lbazan> sesivany: ok
16:29:19 * masta reads ticket
16:30:00 * robyduck wants to add something to this topic at the end
16:32:34 <masta> ok, so I'm in favor of the fas group.
16:33:04 <masta> in regards to the track queue, or the irc logs... that is an interesting topic
16:33:20 <masta> trac* queue
16:33:32 <sesivany> masta: we're not discussing the comment 9.
16:33:46 <sesivany> masta: I'd like to ratify some formal process finally.
16:34:07 <tuanta> masta, I have not got your point
16:34:16 <tuanta> ok, lets discuss it later
16:34:35 <sesivany> those are implementation details imho
16:35:05 <masta> ok guys, I am so sry for blundering my way in at the middle.
16:35:34 <masta> sesivany: I'd like to help you ratify a formal process =)
16:35:39 <sesivany> any objections to the formal process proposed in the comment #9?
16:36:03 <robyduck> #8 right?
16:36:37 <sesivany> robyduck: yeah
16:36:44 <sesivany> it's confusing.
16:36:58 <robyduck> yes, anyway, I'm ready for voting
16:36:59 <masta> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/366#comment:8
16:37:04 <sesivany> that's is probably why masta started discussing something else :)
16:37:08 <lbazan> #8{
16:37:15 <lbazan> ok votes?
16:37:16 <sesivany> I pointed him to a different comment :)
16:37:22 <tuanta> :)
16:37:42 <sesivany> ready to vote?
16:37:56 <lbazan> ok
16:37:57 <robyduck> yes: +1
16:37:59 <sesivany> I'm +1
16:38:15 <tuanta> as I mentioned above I am ok with it too
16:38:17 <tuanta> +1
16:38:26 <lbazan> +1
16:38:30 * masta +1 the proposal in comment #8
16:38:51 <lbazan> yn1v: ?
16:39:12 <yn1v> +1
16:39:22 <sesivany> ok, thank you, we finally have a formal process :)
16:39:33 <masta> we have six affirmative votes
16:40:05 <sesivany> #agreed FAmSCo agrees on the formal process as it is stated in https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/366#comment:8
16:40:29 <sesivany> #action sesivany to move the process to the wiki.
16:41:34 <sesivany> I will have to leave in a couple of minutes, but if you have anything else to discuss feel free to do so without me, I'd just like to ask tuanta to send out minutes after the meeting.
16:41:39 <lbazan> remember feedback in mentor list and others..
16:41:49 <tuanta> ok, sesivany
16:41:54 <robyduck> We are talking about new mentors, I saw we need to let them know how the mentoring process is working. Wiki pages about that are a bit hidden and new mentors probably don't read the old ML topics. Can we add this somewhere? Dunno, something like "mentor's first steps'...which FAmSCo need to link to the new mentors (probably to older ones too...)
16:42:46 <lbazan> robyduck: I think +1
16:42:48 * robyduck noticed there is still some confusion about the new process
16:42:48 <sesivany> tuanta: looks like you want to continue. tuanta, can you end the meeting and send out minutes when you're done?
16:42:58 <tuanta> robyduck, what are you talking about?
16:43:04 <tuanta> sesivany, yes I will
16:43:12 <sesivany> #chair tuanta
16:43:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: sesivany tuanta
16:43:25 <sesivany> meet you next week, guys!
16:43:34 <robyduck> tuanta: that not all mentors are aware of the administrative process we decided last year
16:43:44 <lbazan> tuanta: to learn the process and how they work... robyduck ?
16:43:55 <robyduck> and new mentors won't know anything if they don't get pointed to a document
16:44:00 <tuanta> robyduck, if it is one of public information that all ambassadors know
16:44:09 <tuanta> ah, yes, robyduck. it makes sense
16:44:43 <lbazan> robyduck: +1
16:44:47 <robyduck> I saw confusion about the "invite only", and also about filing and managing the ticket by the mentors etc...
16:44:53 <tuanta> you meant we need to tell new mentors know that page, right?
16:45:18 <robyduck> yes, there are at least two pages, and none of them is easy to find
16:45:24 <lbazan> tuanta: yes!
16:45:43 <robyduck> if we add this to our TODO list, that would be good IMHO
16:45:57 <tuanta> +1 robyduck
16:46:09 <tuanta> if could be a task for FAmA
16:46:23 <robyduck> yes, right
16:46:30 <tuanta> just after upgrade that new mentor
16:46:37 <robyduck> exactly
16:47:01 <tuanta> but it is really good to add it explicitly in the process wiki page
16:47:05 <robyduck> FAmA could handle that with a welcome mail, putting the links into that mail
16:47:17 <robyduck> yup
16:47:23 <tuanta> nice
16:47:42 <robyduck> EOF
16:47:46 <tuanta> who would be the person to create/modify that wiki pages?
16:47:59 <tuanta> sesivany?
16:48:29 <robyduck> well, herlo did a nice page time ago, we could add the latest changes just there
16:48:59 <tuanta> you meant the process wiki pages?
16:49:08 <tuanta> we just voted to have them?
16:49:13 <robyduck> yes
16:49:22 <robyduck> no: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassador_Candidate_Ticket_Management
16:49:36 <robyduck> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassador_mentoring_and_membership_process_changes#What_Mentor_Do
16:50:10 <robyduck> just two examples
16:50:16 <tuanta> yes, I see, those are two wiki pages which new mentors must know
16:50:36 <tuanta> I just ask about who is in charge of creating new wiki page for the new processes we just approved
16:50:49 <robyduck> sesivany
16:50:56 <tuanta> I meant https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/366#comment:8
16:51:15 <robyduck> yes, Jiri will
16:51:24 <robyduck> he has marked an action to himself
16:51:29 <tuanta> ok, we will note this to remind him when creating them
16:51:48 <robyduck> ok
16:51:59 <tuanta> that's fine now :)
16:52:22 <tuanta> any other topics today? yn1v lbazan masta ?
16:52:51 <lbazan> nope
16:53:01 <robyduck> as F21 Alpha has been released we could start to talk about Releasae Parties, but not today
16:53:26 <tuanta> +1 robyduck
16:53:49 <tuanta> yn1v, I see you have more people attend FUDCon Managua
16:54:30 <tuanta> it is much better now (than the situation we had to face a month ago)
16:54:31 <yn1v> I have a long list of people requesting sponsorship
16:54:37 <tuanta> good :)
16:55:00 <yn1v> some of them made in time for the sencon call, most of them applied later
16:55:28 <tuanta> I am preparing to call for FUDCon APAC 2015 bidding
16:55:31 <tuanta> maybe next week
16:55:37 <yn1v> the list in the web site has grown due the fact that I have included some local speakers
16:55:38 <tuanta> #topic FUDCons
16:56:11 <tuanta> yes, it is better to give chances for local people
16:56:25 <tuanta> that helps to grow up the local cpmmunity
16:56:40 <tuanta> *s/community
16:56:49 <yn1v> at the moment nobody from fedora local community has proposed talks
16:56:55 <tuanta> :)
16:57:18 <tuanta> but I see they have got some ideas in their sponsor request tickets
16:57:20 <yn1v> I think that they are scared of don't be at the level of the people invited
16:57:42 <yn1v> I mean from Nicaragua, nobody
16:57:51 <tuanta> don't make them scared :)
16:58:00 <tuanta> ah, I see
16:58:18 <tuanta> ok then
16:58:25 <tuanta> #topic Open floor
16:58:35 <yn1v> I have been pushing them, to propose something, to play on their strengths.
16:58:46 <tuanta> any things brought up at this moment?
16:58:56 <tuanta> +1 yn1v
16:59:15 <tuanta> I will end the meeting in 2 minutes
16:59:48 * masta heads off
16:59:50 <masta> bye
17:00:19 <robyduck> see you next week
17:01:13 <tuanta> #endmeeting