15:00:23 #startmeeting Fedora ARM & AArch64 Status Meeting 15:00:23 Meeting started Tue Feb 3 15:00:23 2015 UTC. The chair is pwhalen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00:23 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:23 #chair pwhalen jonmasters bconoboy pbrobinson dgilmore dmarlin hrw jsmith kyle ahs3 15:00:23 Current chairs: ahs3 bconoboy dgilmore dmarlin hrw jonmasters jsmith kyle pbrobinson pwhalen 15:00:32 .fas pwhalen 15:00:33 pwhalen: pwhalen 'Paul Whalen' 15:00:47 howdy folks, hoping we have enough for a meeting today.. 15:02:09 howdy 15:02:11 going to give it a few minutes, we have a number of people travelling .. 15:02:37 good morning masta 15:02:53 thanks for coming 15:02:58 morning pwhalen 15:06:00 morning gents, not sure we have enough of a quorum here, giving it a few minutes .. 15:06:35 masta, I'd like to chat with you after your meeting if you are available 15:06:57 * ctyler arrives, slightly out of breath 15:07:40 ctyler, do you guys have rpi2's already at Seneca? Plans for a Fedora remix? 15:08:45 We have rpi2's heading our way Real Soon Now. 15:08:55 As usual, the Foundation blindsided us. 15:09:13 I'd like to chat about that if we have a few minutes in the meeting. 15:09:18 .hellomynameis yselkowitz 15:09:19 yselkowitz1: yselkowitz 'Yaakov Selkowitz' 15:09:25 ctyler, awesome, looked to order yesterday but they were sold out of course 15:09:35 morning yselkowitz1 15:10:49 hi pwhalen sorry I'm late, talking about the rpy2? 15:10:56 *rpi2 15:10:57 the agenda i had in mind might not be too fruitful without probinson and dgilmore.. does anyone else have things they'd like to discuss today? 15:11:02 yselkowitz1, yessir 15:11:15 ctyler, sounds good 15:11:32 I expect there will be a lot of interest in that 15:11:35 pwhalen: I'll loan you one, once we get our batch, if you ever come to visit :-P 15:11:38 agreed 15:12:16 ctyler, I plan to do that very soon, like next week.. 15:12:39 not next week, it's Linaro Connect! 15:12:50 ah, right, the followin works as well 15:13:39 Speaking of which, I hear that jcm, bconoboy, oatley, and I are headed to Connect, anyone else going? 15:14:34 hehe... not me 15:14:57 yep, will definitely be there starting sunday 15:15:41 any updates wrt v8 on aarch64? 15:16:25 * ctyler presumes v8 as the codec, not the juice or the arm architecture level 15:17:17 * yselkowitz1 meant the js engine 15:17:54 yselkowitz1: I expect to have an update from connect 15:17:59 so check this space again next week 15:18:03 ok 15:18:59 pwhalen: We open floor? 15:19:35 bconoboy, pretty much.. no agenda items 15:19:42 bconoboy: but no karaoke 15:19:54 id like to discuss f22 planning, but think we need some releng folks here to do so 15:20:18 Okay, so next week is Linaro Connect in Hong Kong. There will be a cross-distro session there setup by Riku. The URL for the session is here: https://hkg15.pathable.com/meetings/250818 15:20:34 There should be a google hangout to go with it for people who want to participate 15:20:44 #info next week is Linaro Connect in Hong Kong. There will be a cross-distro session there setup by Riku 15:20:45 bconoboy: there is no remote participation this time 15:20:59 #link https://hkg15.pathable.com/meetings/250818 15:21:08 ctyler, thats unfortunate, but time is an issue too 15:21:18 ctyler: Working on it :-) 15:21:39 I'll google hangout via phone or tablet if needed 15:22:11 bconoboy: thanks! 15:22:20 sorry, s/no remote participation/no organizer-initiated infrastructure for remote participation/ 15:23:06 ok, so shall we get started? seems like we have enough people here 15:24:15 +1 15:24:17 #topic 1) ==== F22 Planning (armhfp) ==== 15:25:09 ive started testing f22, looks great for desktop support.. allwinner devices seem to be working, jetson tk1, plus our regular boards 15:25:53 cool. 15:26:01 I think we need to add a statement about raspberry pi 2 support 15:26:19 ctyler: do you know status of the firmware/kernel? 15:26:50 #info F22 testing underway, desktop looks good. Allwiner devices, Jetson TK1 working, plus traditional devices 15:26:56 dgilmore asked me to test fedup last week, however the rawhide repo is missing the installation tree.. 15:27:10 there are two kernel options. some stuff that is slowly working its way upstream, and by slowly I mean it's been a few years already, but there is steady progress; and then there's a frankenkernel. 15:27:19 let's do Pi2 as a separate topic 15:27:21 #info Fedup support not tested yet (rawhide repo is missing installation tree) 15:27:24 ctyler: okay 15:27:58 pwhalen: hum... that should be fixable by a lorax run 15:28:28 this is why we want regular full composes of rawhide isn't it? 15:28:37 yes 15:28:53 masta, i usually do so here, but fedup needs things like checksums in the .treeinfo 15:29:07 they are happening for mainline, I guess not arm 15:29:13 i think pungi is needed for that, but i havent used it myself 15:29:23 yes 15:29:44 masta: arm is mainline, ne? 15:30:03 oh yeah... sry 15:30:30 the other major issue for f22 is having anaconda add the fdtdir to extlinux.conf.. 15:31:13 i think dgilmore had also planned to work on that, though i am not sure the status. i may be one of the only people using anaconda for installs 15:32:02 I wonder if there was a bz for this? 15:32:02 is there a bz for it? 15:32:07 heh 15:32:37 there isnt that i know of 15:32:48 just something he and i have discussed previously 15:32:50 #info F22 anaconda needsto add fdtdir to extlinux.conf. bz# dgilmore? 15:32:54 #undo 15:32:54 Removing item from minutes: INFO by bconoboy at 15:32:50 : F22 anaconda needsto add fdtdir to extlinux.conf. bz# dgilmore? 15:33:01 #info F22 anaconda needs to add fdtdir to extlinux.conf. bz# dgilmore? 15:33:42 we've also apparently added a server image to our deliverable's for f22 15:34:39 #info Server Image being added for F22 15:34:55 anything for f22? things we'd like to see, things broken need fixing.. 15:35:45 #topic 2) ==== F22 Planning (aarch64) ==== 15:35:57 just to separate the two 15:36:39 installation tree is also incomplete here, same issue. i can create it locally for installation testing, but fedup will need the official compse 15:38:12 #info Similarly, fedup needs an official compose to be tested 15:38:17 be great to see the mustang usb working to have usb installations in f22 15:38:34 Main feature for F22-aarch64 will be an Actual User Base 15:39:05 i like it 15:39:12 Mustang USB is close 15:39:33 We'll be issuing a new mustang firmware soon that includes USB boot support 15:39:46 in tianocore, we need it in the fedora kernel 15:40:48 USB boot works, USB access from a running system doesn't 15:41:19 Ah, perhaps it's time to pull another fedorahosted patchset over 15:41:57 ctyler: with which firmware does USB boot work on mustang? 15:42:08 ctyler, it works when formatted with an efi partition, ideally we'd like it to work by dd'ing the iso.. which will work in the new firmware blc mentioned 15:42:34 believe this is my network usb thing 15:42:42 pwhalen: thanks for the clarification 15:42:49 ok 15:43:49 #info Fedora kernel needs usb support for mustang 15:43:57 anything else for f22-aarch64? 15:44:12 There will supposedly be some inexpensive aarch64 boards existing in the f22 time frame, the potential for remixing is high 15:44:56 lots of remixes coming 15:45:07 I've seen reports of some interesting socs from rockchip, allwinner, and other ... to release in later 2015 15:45:34 #topic 3) == Open Floor == 15:46:00 rpi2? 15:46:25 bconoboy, we talked a little at the beginning 15:46:35 yeah, there is going to be a wave of interest in rpi2 and pidora 15:46:46 seneca has a batch of them coming, i may even steal one from them 15:47:28 do we know if they are pushing their kernel bits upstream? 15:47:28 be fantastic to get a remix out asap 15:47:52 nothing in the minutes for rpi2 yet 15:48:08 can somebody summarize? 15:48:17 dmarlin: there are two parallel kernel efforts. The mainline one has arnd, gkh, etc involved but is moving slow. 15:48:44 The Pi2 is a much more mainstream board than the Pi2 in term of the CPU. The BCM2836 has a VideoCore IV GPU plus four Cortex-A7s at ~1GHz. But the VC is still the unit that does the booting, and so the process is gpu files -> VC, the VC loads an image for the ARM cpu, and then takes the ARM cpu out of reset. The image that it loads can either be uboot or the kernel itself. 15:48:44 Then there's the question of how the software gets delivered to the users. The preferred approach is 'as images', ideally on the NOOBS master image that the Foundation maintains, which has its own challenges. 15:48:58 Coming at this from our POV here... 15:48:58 We're planning a scale-up of Pidora activity. We're now trying to think through what to do with the Pi2. 15:48:58 There are a couple of options for Fedora ARM and Pidora support of the Pi2: (1) Fedora ARM supports the Pi2, and Pidora supports the Pi1. This would require that Fedora ARM support a bunch of extra boot weirdness. To be included in the NOOBS image, you'd have to conform to their image specs. There are also a bunch of Pi-specific libraries and tools that you'd want to include that would only work on the Pi (and thus wouldn't be really paletable for 15:48:58 Primary). (2) Both Fedora ARM and Pidora support the Pi2. Fedora ARM could not worry about the NOOBs image etc, and users could expect a fairly consistent experience between Fedora ARM on the Pi2 and other boards, or a different fairly consistent experience between Pidora on the Pi1 and Pidora on the Pi2. (3) Fedora ARM could ignore the Pi2 and Pidora could be the way that people use Fedora ARM on that device. 15:49:44 I want to make sure we're not duplicating effort but that the Pi space is well covered by a Fedora-family solution. 15:49:54 #info The Raspberry Pi 2 is expected to work with the Fedora userspace, but the kernel is not yet upstream and there may be firmware licensing issues. 15:50:55 #info Initial support likely to be handled via remix courtesy of ctyler/seneca 15:51:06 #info Further details in the log of this session 15:51:23 ctyler: thanks for the summary 15:51:23 ctyler: Thanks :-) 15:52:00 yes, thanks ctyler .. we can revisit this one when we have other present in the coming weeks. 15:52:30 I like that he had it all typed up and ready to paste, great summary ctyler 15:52:48 We're in a planning phase here, so early feedback or even leanings could help inform that process. :-) 15:54:07 ctyler: so my thinking always comes back to the bootloader and how fedora handles those. I believe we added an exception for firmwares/loaders a while back specifically in response to rpi1, but we never got to use that because we dropped armv5 15:54:23 * ctyler expects 10 Pi2s to arrive during or just after Connect. 15:55:50 can we package the rpi firmware/loader thingy? then access those bits in a disk image compose? 15:56:49 better yet, could we keep the firmware/loader bits separate from fedora, and just have it chain-load grub2? 15:56:56 I mean it seems technically doable to make fedora-arm work on the rpi... it's just down to politics about the boot loader, and then the nitty grit to put it all together in a weird compose 15:57:37 I think there's also the question of the extra packages to make the Pi really useful - I/O libraries, firmware codec access, etc. 15:57:55 The Pi is not so useful without that, and that stuff is not useful on other platforms. 15:58:35 The whole thing is the very definition of CLNH. 15:59:06 we're out of time. lets discuss this again next week.. 15:59:24 #endmeeting