15:00:07 <pwhalen> #startmeeting Fedora ARM & AArch64 Status Meeting
15:00:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul 21 15:00:07 2015 UTC.  The chair is pwhalen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:08 <pwhalen> #chair pwhalen bconoboy pbrobinson dgilmore hrw jsmith kyle dmarlin
15:00:08 <zodbot> Current chairs: bconoboy dgilmore dmarlin hrw jsmith kyle pbrobinson pwhalen
15:00:21 <pwhalen> morning gents
15:00:23 <zsun> .hellomynameis zsun
15:00:23 * pbrobinson is here
15:00:23 <zodbot> zsun: zsun 'Ziqian SUN (Zamir)' <sztsian@gmail.com>
15:01:19 <pwhalen> welcome zsun, thanks for joining
15:01:32 <zsun> pwhalen: thanks
15:02:40 <pwhalen> #topic 1) ==== Package Status & Issues  ====
15:03:09 <pbrobinson> we're looking reasonable, around 3300 older builds so down quite a bit from last week
15:03:22 <pbrobinson> I've still got to do the eclipse bootstrap
15:03:50 <pbrobinson> but other than that I've not currently got any blockers on the list, I've fixed a bunch of issues on mainline packages that were causing issues though
15:03:56 <dgilmore> hola
15:04:10 * jsmith is tied up with $dayjob, and can't make time for the meeting :-(
15:04:14 <pbrobinson> so over all we don't look too bad
15:04:29 <pwhalen> did the postgresql build get fixed?
15:04:33 <pbrobinson> yep
15:04:38 <pwhalen> nice
15:04:52 <pbrobinson> long fixed and all the issues of packages with it are building OK now
15:06:01 <pbrobinson> I'm hoping we should have a complete run through of koji-shadow in the next 24-48 hrs, we're currently at around 11K, it needs to iterate through to around 24K to complete at the moment
15:06:16 <hrw> awesome
15:06:25 <pwhalen> #info postgresql issue resolved from last week. No current major blockers.
15:06:36 <pbrobinson> it's being slow and at times I've been impatient and tried to do two and they step on each other and die
15:06:50 <pbrobinson> so now I'm just watching it and waiting
15:07:21 <pwhalen> we will be bringing down hosts shortly for migration, so that time might be extended
15:07:51 <bconoboy> how many will we have up while the systems are shipping?
15:08:22 <pbrobinson> at the moment I don't think that's a major one as I think the two PHX builders should keep up on the load while it grinds through the next half of the iterations
15:08:38 <pbrobinson> bconoboy: 2
15:09:11 <hrw> and how many when migration ends?
15:09:12 <pwhalen> pbrobinson, those hosts need a bump, no checkins
15:09:33 <pbrobinson> pwhalen: OK will check them shortly, they do tend to randomly fall over
15:10:47 <bconoboy> pbrobinson: Ugh, that's terrible.  We can still add some during the downtime if you're game.
15:11:35 <pbrobinson> bconoboy: nope, we will cope, I have more than enough to do as it is
15:11:52 <bconoboy> OK
15:12:53 <pwhalen> ok, moving on...
15:13:00 <pwhalen> #topic 2) ==== Kernel Status ====
15:13:24 <pbrobinson> so 4.1.2 is on it's way to F-22. Please test it
15:13:56 <pbrobinson> I've tested on a number of devices and it looks good (BBB, trimslice, wandboard, jetson, and others)
15:14:14 <pbrobinson> also need to focus on 4.2 for testing
15:14:46 <pbrobinson> I fixed an issue with the AllWinner NIC this morning so those platforms should be in a much better state from tomorrow onwards
15:14:54 * dgilmore has on teh todo this week to get everything here running f23
15:15:05 <zsun> BBB still can not boot to mSD today
15:15:05 <pwhalen> #info kernel-4.2.0-0.rc3.git1.1.fc23 building now
15:15:24 <pbrobinson> zsun: I'm actually currently looking at that
15:16:00 <zsun> oh, great. I'll keep testing it in my spare time
15:16:01 <pwhalen> #info Allwinner network should be fixed as of tomorrows kernel build (0723201)
15:16:11 <pbrobinson> zsun: it seems to work just fine on the internal eMMC, and if I plug a mSD card into a device booted off the eMMC it can see the mSD cards just fine so I'm not sure why else we have this issue
15:18:44 <zsun> pbrobinson: ok, I also checked and confirmed the Block ID in fstab is right. So not caused by that as well
15:19:24 <pbrobinson> zsun: it's not finding the rootfs, not sure why, still investigating, will reply on list to the thread once I know
15:19:57 <pbrobinson> so BBB aside, my AllWinner devices look OK once the network fix lands in a new build in mainline
15:20:38 <pbrobinson> I've had tegra running without too many issues, although there is a bunch of random kernel issues there so it's still not perfect
15:21:07 <pbrobinson> and will need to slowly go through the rest as I get time, please test and report to IRC or the mailine list success or issues
15:21:42 <pwhalen> #info Please test and report to IRC or the mailine list success or issues
15:22:19 <pwhalen> #topic 3) ==== U-Boot Testing ====
15:22:34 <pbrobinson> s/mainline/arm
15:22:55 <pbrobinson> so u-boot 2015.07 GA is in F-23+
15:23:20 <pbrobinson> I've tested it on a bunch of devices, I know of console issues and issues with the Panda-ES/A4
15:23:26 <pbrobinson> anyone else done any testing?
15:24:07 * zsun still using the old F22 uboot on his device.
15:24:31 <pwhalen> i missed the latest build, did we resolve all reported issues with the rc's?
15:24:36 <pbrobinson> zsun: what device?
15:24:44 <zsun> BBB
15:25:04 <pbrobinson> zsun: please test 2015.07, it works well from my testing
15:25:37 <zsun> pbrobinson: I only have BBB on hand. Ok and I will update it next time
15:26:20 <pwhalen> ill check today, specifically the pxe boot stuff (needing to run findfdt manually as an example)
15:26:50 <pwhalen> #info latest - uboot-tools-2015.07-2.fc23
15:27:12 <pbrobinson> pwhalen: need device details for that. Mailing list prob best
15:27:41 <pwhalen> well you and i chatted, but will remind after i check the latest
15:28:14 <pwhalen> #topic 4) ==== FLOCK Planning ====
15:28:41 * pbrobinson needs to get his talks done.... that's about all I have on that topic
15:28:57 <pwhalen> bconoboy, I think you were looking for a head count for dinner?
15:29:01 <bconoboy> yes
15:29:14 * pwhalen is in.
15:29:19 <bconoboy> I need to budget for dinner, so if you want to join a fedora arm dinner let me know (also any dietary restrictions)
15:29:33 <pbrobinson> I should be in
15:29:41 * hrw goes. meat based diet ;D
15:30:19 <bconoboy> Okay, that's 4 :-)
15:32:13 <pwhalen> #info Fedora ARM dinner at FLOCK, please email the list if you would like to attend. Details to follow.
15:32:47 <pwhalen> anything else for flock?
15:33:51 <pbrobinson> nope
15:33:55 <pwhalen> #topic 5) == Open Floor ==
15:34:20 <yselkowitz> gnome flashback?
15:34:31 <pbrobinson> what is that?
15:35:06 <yselkowitz> do you remember the gnome fallback up through 3.8?
15:35:41 <yselkowitz> gnome-panel, gnome-applets, metacity
15:35:47 <pbrobinson> yes
15:36:20 <pwhalen> i tested it yesterday on the banana pi, performance was pretty good
15:36:20 <pbrobinson> yselkowitz: what about it?
15:36:31 <pbrobinson> it it packaged in Fedora?
15:36:35 <yselkowitz> so upstream killed it off but there has been a small group continuing its development
15:37:00 <yselkowitz> for x86: https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/yselkowitz/gnome-flashback/
15:37:02 <dmarlin> I tried it on F21 and F22 aarch64 using vnc, and is looks good
15:37:13 <yselkowitz> for armv7 and aarch64: http://yselkowitz.fedorapeople.org/arm-gnome-flashback.repo
15:37:41 <pbrobinson> yselkowitz: why copr and not in Fedora proper?
15:37:51 <yselkowitz> one step at a time
15:38:22 <yselkowitz> we were at 8 pkgs, now down to 6, soon down to 4
15:38:23 <zsun> Not sure if bz1223618 fixed by GNOME.
15:39:28 <dmarlin> yselkowitz: can you give a high level comparison of mate and gnome flashback (since IIUC both are light-weight versions of gnome)
15:39:35 <yselkowitz> sure
15:39:43 <pwhalen> thanks
15:39:58 <pwhalen> zsun, not sure its been tested in f23 yet
15:40:19 <yselkowitz> so as many of you know there was much backlash to gnome 3.0
15:41:09 <yselkowitz> the main issues were 1) technical, as gnome-shell first required good hw acceleration, and 2) some users just didn't like the drastic change
15:41:23 <zsun> pwhalen: will contact with Tonghui as he also contributes to GNOME. And I'll test it as well when mSD issue fixed for BBB
15:41:31 <yselkowitz> so mate forked from the last gtk2 version of gnome right away
15:41:53 <pwhalen> zsun, thanks kindly. much appreciated
15:42:03 <yselkowitz> and has continued development since primarily for gtk2, while starting to port to gtk3
15:42:41 <yselkowitz> as for gnome, because of those two issues, they ported the gnome 2 desktop (panel, applets, metacity) to gtk3 and called it "GNOME Fallback"
15:43:00 <yselkowitz> for those who could not (or chose not to) run gnome-shell
15:43:34 <yselkowitz> around 3.8, both gnome-shell/mutter and llvmpipe had developed to the point where it was technically feasible to run it purely on software
15:43:42 <hrw> yselkowitz: are mate and gnome-fallback parts of one project or two separate ones doing same?
15:44:18 * hrw kde and xfce user
15:44:21 <yselkowitz> so they dropped fallback and provided "GNOME Classic" (same gnome-shell technology but closer to old-fashioned layout) for users who didn't like adjustment
15:44:30 * zsun xfce user
15:44:32 <yselkowitz> hrw, they're two different projects
15:44:47 <hrw> yselkowitz: thx
15:45:05 <yselkowitz> mate also forked apps (file manager, text editor, archive manager, document viewer, etc.)
15:45:18 <yselkowitz> flashback is meant to use with gnome 3 apps
15:45:35 <hrw> ok
15:45:52 <yselkowitz> the problem is that running gnome-shell on software is very demanding, and the armv7 boards just aren't up to it
15:46:15 <yselkowitz> nor is gnome classic a perfect emulation of the 2.x desktop
15:46:47 <yselkowitz> so there is mainly one person upstream continuing development of that desktop, now called GNOME Flashback
15:47:19 <pbrobinson> OK, so anyone else have anything?
15:47:23 <yselkowitz> those packages are intended to be used in conjunction with a workstation image (gnome)
15:47:24 <pwhalen> #info GNOME Flashback available for testing - https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/yselkowitz/gnome-flashback/
15:47:28 <dmarlin> yselkowitz: what is the recommended installation path to test gnome-flashback on f22 or rawhide
15:47:42 <yselkowitz> dmarlin, which platform
15:47:44 <yselkowitz> ?
15:48:04 <dmarlin> yselkowitz: armv7, I'd assume would be most common (here)
15:48:06 <pwhalen> #info For armv7 and aarch64: http://yselkowitz.fedorapeople.org/arm-gnome-flashback.repo
15:48:43 <dmarlin> yselkowitz: start with 'workstation' image and install gnome-flashback?
15:48:49 <yselkowitz> yes
15:48:58 <dmarlin> thanks yselkowitz
15:49:12 <yselkowitz> and please let me know if there are issues
15:49:51 <pwhalen> #info Recommend starting with the 'Workstation' image and install gnome-flashback.
15:50:03 <pwhalen> thanks yselkowitz
15:50:09 <yselkowitz> np
15:50:13 <pwhalen> anything else for open floor today?
15:51:36 <pwhalen> #endmeeting