17:00:24 #startmeeting F23 Alpha Go/No-Go meeting 17:00:24 Meeting started Thu Aug 6 17:00:24 2015 UTC. The chair is jkurik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:24 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00:26 #meetingname F23 Alpha Go/No-Go meeting 17:00:26 The meeting name has been set to 'f23_alpha_go/no-go_meeting' 17:00:42 #topic Roll Call 17:00:46 .hello sgallagh 17:00:47 sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' 17:00:51 morning 17:00:55 Hi 17:00:56 * jreznik is watching! 17:01:02 * danofsatx is heah 17:01:05 * pwhalen is here 17:01:20 * Corey84 here and in irc sig may be delayed in replies 17:01:58 .fas corey84 17:01:58 lets wait for 1 minute to allow people to join 17:01:58 Corey84: corey84 'Corey Sheldon' 17:02:33 .hello pfrields 17:02:34 stickster: pfrields 'Paul W. Frields' 17:03:16 hhorak: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress. 17:03:44 hhorak: I think we may have a channel collision 17:03:44 This is Go/No-Go 17:03:49 #chair sgallagh nirik stickster corey84 jreznik 17:03:49 Current chairs: corey84 jkurik jreznik nirik sgallagh stickster 17:03:54 hello 17:04:02 * roshi is here 17:04:06 I see, np, we'll find another channel then.. 17:04:13 hhorak: thanks 17:04:22 #topic Purpose of this meeting 17:04:24 #info Purpose of this meeting is to see whether or not F23 Alpha is ready for shipment, according to the release criteria. 17:04:25 #info This is determined in a few ways: 17:04:27 #info No remaining blocker bugs 17:04:28 #info Release candidate compose is available 17:04:30 #info Test matrices for Alpha are fully completed 17:04:31 #link https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/23/alpha/buglist 17:04:33 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Installation 17:04:34 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Base 17:04:36 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Desktop 17:04:36 meeting -1 and -2 all in play atm 17:04:37 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Server 17:04:47 hhorak: #fedora-meeting-3 is open 17:05:13 hhorak: #fedora-meeting-1 is in open floor, they'll probably let you take it over 17:06:11 sgallagh: yeah, they just finished, so if anybody asked where Env&Stacks meeting is, please, forward them to #fedora-meeting-1, please :) 17:06:17 will do 17:06:57 so lets start 17:07:02 #topic Current status 17:07:51 so we have two accepted and two proposed blocker atm 17:08:31 want me to run a mini-blocker review? 17:08:46 #chair bkabrda hhorak juhp ncoghlan vpavlin jkaluza walters ttomecek phracek 17:08:55 sorry, wrong window 17:09:03 roshi: yes, please 17:09:07 #topic Mini blocker review 17:09:18 roshi: yeah 17:09:21 can I get chair please? makes it easier :) 17:09:34 #chair sgallagh nirik stickster corey84 jreznik roshi 17:09:34 Current chairs: corey84 jkurik jreznik nirik roshi sgallagh stickster 17:09:41 thanks :) 17:09:42 #topic (1250874) F23 Alpha RC2 Cloud Base image doesn't boot 17:09:42 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1250874 17:09:42 #info Proposed Blocker, fedora-productimg-cloud, NEW 17:09:52 this is a pretty clear blocker. 17:10:04 it's already got the votes it needs 17:10:05 unfortunatelly, it is 17:10:09 this is the main blocker right now 17:10:19 still working to figure out what's wrong so we can get a fix ready 17:10:25 but I have no ETA on that at all 17:11:11 RC1 was ok, am i right ? 17:11:29 jkurik: there have been no cloud builds until now 17:11:32 they've been failing 17:11:37 this was the first pass at testing it 17:11:49 ok 17:11:57 counting the votes in the bug, it's accepted 17:11:58 there's no cloud images for tc1/tc2/rc1 17:11:59 so how could it be RC1 if one deliverable was failing? 17:12:17 it would never have been released. 17:12:21 I think we should not call anything RC when something does not compose - it is confusing 17:12:27 but we can try an rc when all _known_ blockers are fixed 17:12:38 unless we have a time machine... 17:13:12 thinking that is definition of RC... the product must be whole 17:13:18 the issues with the cloud composes were in the compose tools, not in the package collection 17:13:20 but it's academic 17:13:39 clearly we are blocked atm 17:13:40 yes, but if we always knew we would have a perfect rc in advance we would never have more than rc1 :) 17:13:47 there wasn't ever an expectation that the compose itself would fail, it was the tools to built it 17:14:25 i mean a whole compose, not necessarily passing tests :-) 17:14:46 proposed #agreed - 1250874 - AcceptedBlocker Alpha - This bug is a clear violation of the following Alpha criterion: "All release-blocking images must boot in their supported configurations." 17:14:52 ack/nack/patch? 17:15:00 +1 17:15:03 +1 17:15:06 +1 17:15:09 +1 17:15:18 #agreed - 1250874 - AcceptedBlocker Alpha - This bug is a clear violation of the following Alpha criterion: "All release-blocking images must boot in their supported configurations." 17:15:24 ack 17:15:31 ack 17:15:35 ack 17:15:39 ack 17:15:49 next proposal 17:15:49 #topic (1250724) FreeIPA install fails during dogtag setup 17:15:49 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1250724 17:15:50 #info Proposed Blocker, pki-core, NEW 17:16:45 * Corey84 is shoeless on this one and hang back 17:16:56 given the wiggle room of this one, I'm reverting my vote to a -1 17:17:10 it can be fixed with updates, and over the network is the default 17:17:57 looks like a new version of Tomcat fixes the issue 17:18:19 yep 17:18:41 so, I am -1 to block Alpha 17:18:56 that's 3 votes for -1 17:19:03 anybody else? 17:19:08 -1 17:19:15 -1 17:19:17 * Corey84 absaining 17:19:18 -1 17:19:31 sorry, using tablet 17:19:50 * jreznik is looking for tablet recommendation :) 17:20:04 jreznik, pm me after mtg 17:20:09 -1 alpha blocker. 17:20:13 proposed #agreed - 1250724 - RejectedBlocker Alpha - This bug fits within the wiggle room provided by the criterion cited, and it can be fixed with updates. 17:20:28 +1 17:20:41 here is where you ack if you think the wording is good 17:20:47 nack if you don't agree with it 17:20:51 ack 17:20:56 or patch if there's a typo or something 17:21:07 ack 17:21:15 ack 17:21:18 #agreed - 1250724 - RejectedBlocker Alpha - This bug fits within the wiggle room provided by the criterion cited, and it can be fixed with updates. 17:21:45 let's review the accepted blockers for Alpha 17:21:47 there are 2 17:21:49 first up: 17:21:50 #topic (1247747) Review Request: f23-backgrounds - Fedora 23 default desktop background 17:21:53 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1247747 17:21:55 #info Accepted Blocker, Package Review, ON_QA 17:22:33 Sorry folks, I fell off the network for a while 17:22:41 no worries 17:23:01 this violates the criteria 17:23:33 roshi: I'm not sure I would agree completely. 17:23:42 even the bug is ON_QE it looks like the bug is still present (Comment #14) 17:23:54 I think a strong argument could be made that only Workstation's wallpaper is covered by this strictly 17:24:10 sgallagh: +1 17:24:14 workstation is gnome and kde - right? 17:24:16 sgallagh: but it's workstation wallpaper 17:24:21 those are the two flavors of the edition? 17:24:34 roshi: KDE is not part of Workstation 17:24:43 Some of the KDE support libs (like QT) are 17:24:47 but I think it should be for all blocking desktops 17:24:48 But not the Plasma desktop 17:24:49 correct 17:24:51 * nirik is with sgallagh. I think it strictly only applies to workstation 17:25:07 ah, I thought Workstation was for the two DE's that are release blocking 17:25:10 because otherwise it does not make sense to have such criterion 17:25:11 I'mm fine with FE here if we have to slip we can fix it, but slipping... 17:25:12 so GNOME and KDE 17:25:14 roshi: they are. 17:25:15 my bad 17:25:23 roshi: so GNOME and KDE 17:25:34 nirik: +1 to FE 17:25:41 I'm with nirik: +1 to FE for the other desktops 17:25:48 nirik: +1 17:25:54 they are blocking, but the criteria talks about "the default desktop" 17:25:55 +1 blocker for all blocking desktop 17:26:09 otherwise it doesn't make sense for GNOME neither 17:26:09 so was written back in f18 days. 17:26:30 the idea behind this is to make sure people see from the first sight it's new version 17:26:39 the criteria says "default desktop background" - which to me read as anything blocking that has a desktop background 17:26:41 "so it was written... so shall it be done"? 17:26:42 (I'm personally opposed to this being a blocking criterion at all, but others may disagree) 17:26:45 so a bit artificial criterion but it helps to get new wp in time 17:27:06 now, that isn't to say II like this criterion (as I never use the defualt backgrounds or can't see them ever anyways) 17:27:18 sgallagh: it's nice to have it ready for Alpha to get feedback but it can be done as update too 17:27:22 for Beta, it should be 17:27:34 jreznik: The criterion doesn't require it to be even similar to the Final paper 17:27:42 just that it must be different from the stable releases 17:27:57 Ostensibly so people don't get confused which release they're running 17:28:02 anyhow.... 17:28:03 sgallagh: no, it doesn't and we already have Alpha wp that wasn't accepted by community, so it's good to have it 17:28:07 I personally think this is a ridiculous way of determining that 17:28:13 but if it says only default desktop, I'm ok 17:28:18 * nirik notes when he logs into gnome he... never sees the wallpaper. All the apps take up all the screen. I don't even know what the current default one looks like 17:28:21 anyhow.... 17:28:21 (I still run the nautilus background from way back because I like it...) 17:28:25 looks like people are -1 blocker and +1 FE and we have to reverse the previous decision 17:28:32 but I think it should be changed to all blocking desktops, otherwise it's non sense 17:28:57 this is a fairly clear, textbook violation of the criteria as written and has already been accepted as a blocker 17:29:12 Proposal: eliminate the criterion 17:29:28 Not just for this release, but going forwards *because it's nonsense* 17:29:39 jreznik: it's being read and interpretted by the QA team as all blocking DEs, afaict 17:29:44 sgallagh: but keep the final one? 17:29:54 definitely final one 17:29:56 nirik: Yes, Final criterion is perfectly sensible 17:30:03 and I'm more inclined to be Beta too 17:30:06 is the purpose of this meeting to fix criteria? 17:30:10 for Alpha it's really strict 17:30:12 +1 fe here 17:30:19 stickster: no, you're right 17:30:22 stickster: it's not 17:30:23 stickster: nope. 17:30:26 ty 17:30:41 I mean, the sort of person who bothers to install a pre-release is generally going to be competent enough to figure out what system they're on without the wallpaper as a guidepost 17:30:55 * nirik nods 17:31:14 so this is a blocker, and update has been pushed claiming to fix it, which needs karma 17:31:18 stickster: There isn't really a better place/group to decide that 17:31:19 anyhow, I guess then we have 2 options: accept as blocker based on the reading some folks have or accept as fe on the other? 17:31:27 Where else would this discussion happen? 17:31:34 sgallagh: test list. 17:31:36 sgallagh: the test list is where we usually discuss criteria 17:31:43 or the QA meetings on Mondays 17:31:46 propose critera change, get discussion make change 17:31:46 at 1500 UTC 17:31:48 Fine 17:32:01 can we vote for FE now ? 17:32:04 nirik: it's already a blocker 17:32:09 no point to vote on FE 17:32:16 the fix has been pushed and needs karma 17:32:25 ok. 17:32:48 this looks like it's on point to be fixed and good to go 17:33:02 roshi: +1 17:33:02 but a discussion about the criterion on the test list would be good to get started 17:33:17 moving on to the last accepted blocker 17:33:18 #topic (1134882) perl-MongoDB-0.702.2-4.fc22 FTBFS: t/gridfs.t tests fails 17:33:21 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1134882 17:33:23 #info Accepted Blocker, perl-MongoDB, ON_QA 17:33:41 we worked around it by dropping the group from the install media 17:33:58 so the issue is not present in RC2 17:34:02 /me nods 17:34:50 yeah, so I'd say drop blocker on it? 17:34:59 so the bug is not fixed, but we no longer have the issues causing the broken deps on the media 17:35:01 ok, so nothing to do with it for this meeting 17:35:09 Yeah, drop blocker 17:35:10 nirik: indeed 17:35:25 it'll still be a blocker when they add it back though, right? 17:35:29 * dgilmore needs to run in 10 minutes 17:35:40 either way, this iis good for RC2 17:35:40 nirik: +1 17:35:46 roshi: if it is added back and the ftbfs is not fixed 17:36:07 dgilmore: I'm not going to add it back before Alpha release at the earliest, possibly ever 17:36:26 ok, then we can drop blocker status 17:36:27 I'm looking into removing a lot of cruft from the disk that was sort of just inherited from the old DVD 17:36:43 anyhow, drop blocker, move on 17:36:50 yep 17:36:56 jkurik: back to you - that's all I have 17:37:00 thanks 17:37:07 thanks 17:37:19 np 17:37:27 so we have only the "F23 Alpha RC2 Cloud Base image doesn't boot" bug which matter 17:37:38 yeah, sadly so 17:37:43 yeah 17:37:56 * roshi just hopes nothing else shows up once we get a bootable image 17:38:09 so moving on ... 17:38:12 roshi: The sooner that happens, the better 17:38:12 #topic Test Matrices coverage 17:38:22 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Summary 17:38:28 jkurik: Isn't this topic unnecessary with unresolved blockers? 17:38:38 sgallagh: pretty much 17:38:51 sgallagh: probably yes 17:39:07 have wes tested the cloud image with grub yet? 17:39:24 dgilmore: still looking at it 17:39:30 but I'd welcome another set of eyes 17:39:54 #topic Go/No-Go decision 17:39:55 if we need to make a spin-kickstarts change and respin the cloud images to fix the issue I am happy to do that and re-evaluate shipping Alpha tomorrow 17:39:59 if we can switch the cloud image to grub could we avoid slipping? ;) (I doubt it, but might as well say it) 17:40:14 nirik: worth a try 17:40:44 Would that require respinning and revalidating the other images? 17:40:46 * nirik would be happy to help testing... that would only be changes in the cloud-base ks? 17:40:53 I'm attempting to jam grub2 into a cloud image to see if it works 17:40:56 I'm thinking no. 17:41:42 nirik: No about what? 17:41:49 * dgilmore grabs the atomic image to see if it boots okay 17:41:55 no, it wouldn't need respinning or revalidating the other images 17:42:00 since it uses grub afaik 17:42:02 only the cloud image 17:42:07 cloud-base. 17:42:14 we could just move the old results from RC2 to RC3 17:42:18 and only cloud would need tested 17:42:23 I have to run in 4 minutes. I have a house to look at in the hope I will find somewhere to live 17:42:30 what options do we have with non booting cloud image ? 17:42:37 though, more testing of the others while cloud is being tested would still be a Good Thing (tm) 17:43:20 jkurik: so, I see our options as: a) slip b) try and switch it to grub, respin it and test it and revisit go/no-go tomorrow at same time? 17:43:21 options: No-Go / make the decision tomorrow once we know more ? 17:43:41 roshi: Sure, although a lot of content could be transferred from RC1 as well, since the diff was basically a new SELinux policy and a removal of a broken dep group 17:44:00 jkurik: two options, slip, or attempt to use grub2 and check status tomorrow 17:44:18 I'm ok with the hero thing, but it also needs buyin from everyone else. ;) 17:44:23 oh wait... 17:44:36 sgallagh: true - but I'm not going to miss a chance to say MOAR TESTING! :p 17:44:40 we have the backgrounds blocker 17:44:58 that just needs karma, and I don't see it breaking anything else 17:45:12 just do some sanity checks to ensure nothing wonky happened with the background update 17:45:13 the rc2 kde images do not have it. 17:45:14 I said it last night, but just to reiterate: If wallpaper blocks the alpha release, I'm going to get angry 17:45:23 sgallagh: I will join you. ;) 17:45:35 sgallagh: +1 17:45:52 tbh, I'm not sure what the protocol is, but we've handwaved things before 17:45:56 so, we have to slip or revisit the wallpaper thing 17:46:01 * roshi doesn't like the alpha background criteria 17:47:00 ok, so installing grub2 lets the cloud instance boot at least 17:47:11 cool. 17:47:18 roshi: atomic boots okay with grub2 17:47:41 ok, so proposal: reconvene tomorrow at same time and see if we can go or are still no go... 17:47:46 so I think there is a high chance that if we respin the cloud image using grub2 it will all work 17:47:51 I suppose we could respin the kde images 17:47:51 nirik: +1 17:48:04 _just_ the kde images 17:48:11 nirik: only if it doesn't need changes in the packages 17:48:23 it would need the new backgrounds package yeah 17:48:25 I'm fine with that 17:48:38 so, I guess we can't do that either then. ;( 17:48:42 nirik: that would need to have everything respun 17:48:56 * dgilmore has to run 17:49:01 so then we could: switch cloud-base to grub2, respin a rc3 17:49:12 but thats going to need retesting everything. 17:49:17 what about a fesco ticket about backgrounds, and have the teams vote in ticket? 17:49:18 my vote is to repsin the cloud image to use grub2 and not extlinux 17:49:32 for the wallpapers 17:49:40 roshi: well, critera is decided by qa no? 17:49:50 dgilmore: as the person who did the extlinux change originally, I'm okay with that 17:50:00 * roshi thought fesco or someone could overrule 17:50:04 mattdm: we can switch back for beta 17:50:18 dgilmore: yeah, pjones says he'll try to make some time to look at it 17:50:23 roshi: FESCo can rule something to BE a blocker, but not the reverse, I think 17:50:31 and I don't think anyone from QA is overly attached to that criteria 17:50:47 * dgilmore is afk 17:51:14 IIRC, the reason it exists is so that folks can't easily mistake an alpha for the last release 17:51:28 so looking at the blocker review meeting where it was marked a blocker... 17:51:31 (pjones is going to talk to hpa about future of extlinux at summit. we may need to accept grub2 as only viable option in future if extlinux upstream is dormant) 17:51:33 it had 2 +1s 17:51:51 sorry, 3 17:52:01 cmurf, tflink and roshi 17:52:04 tflink: That's the reasoning, yes. But I think that's pretty weak justification for a BLOCKER 17:52:12 Maybe for an automatic FE 17:52:20 mattdm: cool. good to know 17:53:10 I don't see blocking for it - but I also don't see why flipping desktop backgrounds are seemingly so *hard* 17:53:30 as adam noted in his comment - why there are so many places to set the things 17:53:36 sgallagh: it's just bad form to release something that looks like it could be F22 (in this case) that has the stability of an alpha. I'm not thrilled about the concept but I'm not sure the fault lies with QA being unreasonable 17:53:57 so we are going to respin kde images due to background walpapers, and use grub2 in cloud image 17:53:59 and the decision to be made tomorrow 17:54:00 right ? 17:54:03 the wallpapers could be changed to plain black and the criterion would be satisfied 17:54:08 how about this: we switch cloud base to grub2 and respin it, we continue testing, we have this backgrounds discussion tomorrow? 17:54:10 aiui, it was meant to be more of a reminder to get new imagery than anything else 17:54:13 jkurik: We can't respin just KDE apparently 17:54:28 jkurik: we can't just do kde sadly, because the update is in an updated package. 17:54:37 so, we have to do everytthing. Full rc3. 17:54:37 nirik: +1 17:55:00 can we get updated wallpapers before starting rc3? 17:55:05 which means everyone would have to be a super hero, because a wallpaper. Thats deeply stupid. 17:55:06 updated/different 17:55:16 we have an update. 17:55:34 would you prefer a rc3 and testing all night to just not calling the background on the kde image blocking? 17:55:35 tflink: The update exists, but it will take eight hours to complete the builds 17:55:48 wait, it's just kde? 17:55:51 yes 17:55:55 sorry, was working on something else 17:56:04 workstation is fine 17:56:12 kde (and likely other spins) aren't 17:56:14 tflink: there's this thing where every DE seems to put stuff in a different place 17:57:28 * stickster gets off phone and can't tell what we're doing at this point. 17:57:36 stickster: we aren't sure. ;) 17:57:36 arguing about wallpapers still 17:57:46 But yet it's :57 :-) 17:57:54 which, as nirik says, is stupid 17:57:59 and nirik rarely says anything is stupid 17:58:07 proposal: respin cloud, open QA ticket on criteria and leave comments 17:58:11 I usually take that to the bank :-) 17:58:14 a) just slip. b) make a new rc3 compose with wallpapers for kde and cloud-base switched to grub2 c) just switch cloud-base to grub2 and ignore the kde wallpaper thing. 17:58:14 can rediscuss tomorrow 17:58:44 roshi: sure, +1 17:58:53 jwb: I say stupid things all the time. ;) 17:59:05 If it doesn't require heroic measures, I'm OK with respin cloud option and check tomorrow. 17:59:10 nirik, sure, but you don't say something _else_ is stupid often ;) 17:59:18 stickster: that should only need cloud re-testing. 17:59:19 I'm all for forgetting the wallpapers personally - but I don't know the protocol we have in place for this scenario and don't want to step on it just because 17:59:24 nirik: I am c) with an action to remove the wallpaper criterion 17:59:25 it would be the rc3 that would be heroic 17:59:41 so, lets do as roshi suggests. 17:59:47 as a person that does the heroics, I don't really want to do it two nights in a row 17:59:50 we can argue about the wallpaper elsewhere and visit tomorrow 17:59:52 nirik: If Cloud respin isn't good for testing, I'll be +1 slip 18:00:02 stickster: right that could be the case too... 18:00:07 we don't know yet 18:00:10 roshi: yup 18:00:11 sounds good to me 18:00:26 Proposal: Respin cloud today. Test as best we can. Reconvene tomorrow to rule on slip. 18:00:34 +1 18:00:41 +1 18:00:47 +1 18:00:47 * stickster notes he will be unavailable tomorrow afternoon, but leaves his proxy with nirik 18:01:02 cool. now I can say something stupid for stickster! :) 18:01:15 nirik: that's how they'll know it's a proxy 18:01:33 lol 18:01:46 usually I say all the stupid things myself. 18:01:58 WFM, no matter what, I'm -1 on hero efforts 18:02:02 tflink: agree 18:02:05 * nirik nods. 18:03:07 proposed #agreed We are No-Go at the moment. Due to bug 1250874 a respin of cloud image needs to be done. Tomorrow (2015-Aug-07) we will revisit the bug and final decision will be made. 18:03:23 jkurik: +1 18:03:27 +1 18:03:30 +1 18:03:32 ack 18:04:15 ack 18:04:48 ack 18:04:58 #agreed We are No-Go at the moment. Due to bug 1250874 a respin of cloud image needs to be done. Tomorrow (2015-Aug-07) we will revisit the bug and final decision will be made. 18:05:09 #topic Open floor 18:05:23 anything else for this meeting ? 18:05:34 * roshi has nothing 18:05:43 I'll watch for the respin and test it when it comes out 18:05:54 still in need of an EC2 person to help me get an AMI to test 18:05:59 as I don't have access to do that 18:06:50 roshi: Who does? 18:06:57 no idea 18:06:58 * nirik can test in the fedora infra cloud 18:07:04 last POC I had was oddshocks 18:07:17 threebean said he has fedimg fixed, so I'll follow up with him 18:07:19 roshi: aws@fedoraproject.org should go to people with access I think 18:07:26 just putting the word out so people know 18:07:34 also, kushal might have info, but he might also be traveling now 18:07:43 he's on the road to flock 18:07:46 Yeah, kushal is enroute 18:08:40 thanks for running the meeting jkurik :) 18:08:41 so, thanks for the meeting and lets revisit tomorrow 18:08:54 #endmeeting