17:00:27 #startmeeting F23 Alpha Go/No-Go meeting 17:00:27 Meeting started Fri Aug 7 17:00:27 2015 UTC. The chair is jkurik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:00:27 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:00:28 #meetingname F23 Alpha Go/No-Go meeting 17:00:28 The meeting name has been set to 'f23_alpha_go/no-go_meeting' 17:00:39 morning everyone. 17:00:41 #topic Roll Call 17:01:36 .hello sgallagh 17:01:37 sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' 17:01:49 Hi Go/No-Go team 17:01:52 .hello mtatdm 17:01:53 mattdm: Sorry, but you don't exist 17:01:54 lol 17:01:57 .hello mattdm 17:01:59 mattdm: mattdm 'Matthew Miller' 17:02:08 * pwhalen is here 17:02:57 .hello roshi 17:02:58 roshi: roshi 'Mike Ruckman' 17:03:08 #chair sgallagh nirik mattdm roshi 17:03:08 Current chairs: jkurik mattdm nirik roshi sgallagh 17:03:09 I also talked with stickster eariler and have his proxy to say stupid things. ;) 17:03:16 nirik: ooh, do it! 17:03:34 and he has to put them on his twitter feed, right? 17:03:41 do we get a vote? :p 17:03:56 nirik: so your vote has a double power now 17:03:58 I think he's off to a justin beiber concert today. 17:04:03 * nirik runs 17:04:05 haha 17:04:22 * roshi makes a note to ask him about the concert at flock 17:04:26 #topic Purpose of this meeting 17:04:28 #info Purpose of this meeting is to see whether or not F23 Alpha is ready for shipment, according to the release criteria. 17:04:29 #info This is determined in a few ways: 17:04:31 #info No remaining blocker bugs 17:04:32 #info Release candidate compose is available 17:04:34 #info Test matrices for Alpha are fully completed 17:04:35 #link https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/23/alpha/buglist 17:04:36 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Installation 17:04:38 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Base 17:04:40 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Desktop 17:04:41 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Server 17:04:43 #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-08-06/f23_alpha_gono-go_meeting.2015-08-06-17.00.html/ 17:04:46 #topic Current status 17:04:55 #info This is the second round of Go/No-Go meeting for Fedora 23 Alpha 17:05:05 #info The Go/No-Go decision has been postponned for today due to bug 1250874 17:05:46 So we are here to discuss mostly the impact of 1250874 on the Alpha release 17:06:05 from my testing, things look good with the grub2 workaround 17:06:09 However I see there is one new proposed blocker 1251247 17:06:23 and there's confirmation from dustymabe, mattdm and nirik (iirc) 17:06:25 there's currently 3 proposed blockers it looks like 17:06:37 yes, the new cloud-base image looks good to me. 17:06:45 mini blocker review time? 17:06:59 yep I suppose so 17:07:15 #topic Mini blocker review 17:07:25 roshi: may I ask you please ? 17:07:31 sure thing 17:07:46 I guess I forgot to secretarialize from yesterday 17:08:01 so the Cloud bug and the FreeIPA ones we don't have to go over 17:08:06 since we did those yesterday 17:08:32 #topic (1251247) Review Request: f23-kde-theme - Fedora Twenty Three KDE Theme 17:08:35 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1251247 17:08:38 #info Proposed Blocker, Package Review, ASSIGNED 17:08:48 so, this is the fun one. 17:08:58 * nirik doesn't guess we have adamw or dgilmore or many others around yet? 17:09:31 hola 17:09:31 I will reiterate my stance that treating wallpaper as an Alpha blocker is nonsense 17:09:41 my proposal: drop this critera from alpha. 17:09:58 +1 17:10:05 the criteria has a purpose, and I think it's a decent one 17:10:06 nirik: +1 17:10:10 nirik: I made the same proposal to the QA list, FWIW 17:10:12 +1 17:10:13 roshi +1 17:10:31 and I'm not a huge fan of the idea of "we might have to block on this so lets drop the criterion" 17:10:40 otherwise, why have criteria in the first place? 17:10:49 not saying this is something critical we're handwaving 17:10:52 just in principle 17:11:04 roshi: The criteria has a purpose, but not enough alone to justify blocking a release IMHO 17:11:04 roshi: indeed 17:11:15 And that should be the definition of a blocker criterion 17:11:32 but things change and it seems a silly to have that criterea 17:11:45 criterion don't just end up on the list due to a whim of QA - there was a discussion and reasoning behind this being one 17:12:02 and we should revisit that if need be (thanks for starting the discussion on the list nirik) 17:12:05 So, alternate way to fulful that purpose -- jkurik, can you make sure that "Update wallpaper for alpha right when the new release branches" is on Some Schedule Which The Right People Will Be Aware Of for the future? 17:12:08 this fails the "if this was the last thing blocking release" test. 17:12:18 but now we're just asking "does this bug violate the criterion as written, today" 17:12:30 mattdm: IMHO, we should be landing the f24 walpaper in rawhide before it branches. 17:12:38 +1 nirik 17:12:54 nirik: sure or that, if it's okay for the alpha and rawhide to have same wallpaper 17:13:07 like I said last meeting, and adam comments on in the bug - this really shouldn't be an issue, it's an easy task 17:13:08 perfectly fine IMHO 17:13:14 it just must have gotten overlooked 17:13:19 roshi: sure, but here we are. 17:13:32 mattdm: yes I can do it 17:13:37 mattdm: when F2N branches, change the rawhide backgrounds - then it's differnt and handled 17:13:38 jkurik++ 17:13:38 mattdm: Karma for jkurik changed to 4: https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 17:14:05 roshi sure, that'll work; either way. 17:14:17 #action jkurik make sure that "Update wallpaper for alpha right when the new release branches" is on Some Schedule Which The Right People Will Be Aware Of for the future 17:14:18 anyhow, I don't think we can say -1 blocker based on the current critera, we need to change the critera, or just slip 2 weeks. 17:14:26 so, today, as written, does this bug violate the criteria? 17:14:32 yes, it does. 17:15:20 nirik: Or make a judgement call and let the test@ list discussion decide the future 17:15:29 we are geting bogged down in process, it's silly. 17:15:33 I'd like to ignore this criteria and just get the release out - but I don't feel comfortable signing off for all QA on that 17:15:36 (For example, a judgement call like "make this a Beta blocker for now") 17:15:45 but that's just me 17:15:55 roshi: understandable.. 17:16:03 roshi: Who can you find that will be comfortable with that? ;-) 17:16:07 tflink / adamw / kparal ^ any of you around? 17:16:07 haha 17:17:38 So... is "make exception for blocker for this release, fix the process that led us to getting here at the last momemnt, leave as blocker" an option in any way? 17:17:49 I don't think so. 17:18:14 because QA will say "no go" as their are open blockers per their process. 17:18:22 right 17:18:26 so this needs to be not a blocker or fixed. 17:18:32 quick, remove as blocker, put back as blocker on monday :) 17:18:36 IMHO, we should make it not a blocker. 17:19:07 I'm not a huge fan of this particular instance of our process - but I don't want to start a trend of changing/ignoring criterion during clutch times like this 17:19:10 if that makes sense 17:19:15 lol 17:19:28 sure, no one likes it, but we have done it before in the past too... 17:19:35 I'm not proposing ignoring it -- we should definitely address the problem 17:19:53 well, let's move to votes 17:20:13 if it gets voted down, then it's done and the conversation about the criterion can go on in the list 17:20:23 Jury's prerogative? I vote -1 blocker on the grounds that the law is unjust ;-) 17:20:37 seconded 17:20:45 we've handwaved more severe blockers in the past 17:21:11 * roshi would propose adding a caveat to all criterion that some are identified as mini-blockers or something ("this isn't enough to block release on" {but then again, why have it at all if it doesn't block?}) 17:21:14 I guess I don't see a way to handwave it tho... 17:21:16 but yeah, I'd rather see us handwave the wallpaper blocker away than anything else - the debate over the actual criterion should take the normal route 17:21:19 0 17:21:25 * nirik ponders 17:22:00 if anything, this should be a final, not alpha. 17:22:13 there is a final critera on it. 17:22:22 danofsatx: There's a separate final criterion 17:22:26 proposed #agreed - 1251247 - RejectedBlocker - While this bug does violate the criteria as written, it's not deemed severe enough to block release and discussion is ongoing regarding the validity of this as an Alpha criterion. 17:22:43 proposed #agreed - 1251247 - RejectedBlocker - While this bug does violate the criterion as written, it's not deemed severe enough to block release and discussion is ongoing regarding the validity of this as an Alpha criterion. 17:22:44 sure. +1 17:22:55 ack 17:22:56 ack 17:22:57 s/criteria/criterion/ 17:23:03 ack 17:23:06 #agreed - 1251247 - RejectedBlocker - While this bug does violate the criterion as written, it's not deemed severe enough to block release and discussion is ongoing regarding the validity of this as an Alpha criterion. 17:23:21 thanks roshi 17:23:43 np 17:23:44 uff, I was afraid we will block the Alpha due to this ... :) 17:24:14 * nirik was too, would have made for an angry flock, so happily thats avoided. ;) 17:24:16 jkurik: Me too. I was all ready to start laying about with an empty whiskey bottle. 17:24:25 we need to figure out some better process stuff, though 17:24:37 the fact that we got to this point means something failed 17:24:42 I think we could frontload more stuff into rawhide than we do. 17:24:48 this being a great example 17:24:59 tflink: The design folks got surprised right at the end with the deadline, not sure how that happened. 17:24:59 for sure 17:25:08 I'll talk with mizmo about solving it for the future 17:25:24 it's good we identified a process problem, and working on a solution 17:25:56 sounds like a failure in planning or communication to me. not trying to blame anyone, just wondering how to fix it 17:26:09 hmmm https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-23/f-23-all-tasks.html has the alpha wallpaper _way in the future_ 17:26:36 now we've got one accepted blocker to look at: 17:26:36 #topic (1251242) Tracker: Fedora 23 desktops using Fedora 22 desktop backgrounds 17:26:39 #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1251242 17:26:42 #info Accepted Blocker, distribution, NEW 17:26:55 ditto the last 17:26:58 "Finalize Alpha Wallpaper" is august 19th, a week and a day after alpha release. :-/ 17:27:05 mattdm: :( 17:27:06 oof 17:27:10 that might explain it 17:27:33 mattdm: The schedule has many strange things; it needs a rework 17:27:38 I'll note the same reasoning from the last bug on this one 17:27:41 and we can move on 17:27:54 I already started with some, but will need more time to check all of it 17:27:56 anybody find anything else broken in the past 24 hours that needs discussion? 17:27:59 Oddly, that schedule has the Final wallpaper and Alpha wallpaper dates on the same day 17:28:11 roshi: Besides the process? 17:28:44 roshi: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1250724 is still listed as proposed? 17:28:48 otherwise, nope. 17:29:21 nirik: I've updated those bugs since the meeting started 17:29:27 takes a bit for the list to be updated 17:29:34 sigh, thought this was in a half hour. 17:29:35 ah, ok, blockerbugs hasn't synced. no worries. 17:29:35 #action jkurik to fix the schedule :) 17:29:45 the dogtag one was rejected yesterday 17:30:58 adamw: now you can blame everyone else for alpha. ;) 17:31:03 Well, I'd still kind of like to see that tomcatjss package pushed stable in time for Alpha 17:31:09 nirik: already planning to! 17:31:10 It's got the necessary karma 17:31:29 we can vote it as FE if you like, then. +1, whatever. 17:31:53 we should be able to get it in for alpha. 17:32:03 we need to cut the release and then we can do stable pushes again. 17:32:07 nirik: Thanks. 17:32:21 oh, 0-day? sure. 17:32:29 adamw: I don't think it needs the FE, if there's an unfreeze in time for 0-day 17:33:35 0-day makes sense to me 17:33:50 we shouldn't push it before that, would mean we would/should respin media with it... 17:34:18 right. 17:34:53 jkurik: I think it's back to you now 17:35:11 roshi: ok, thanks 17:35:20 #topic Test Matrices coverage 17:35:30 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_23_Alpha_RC2_Summary 17:36:05 Shall we go through the it ? 17:36:34 * nirik should put his xfce testing on there somewhere 17:37:16 see also https://www.happyassassin.net/testcase_stats/23/ 17:37:29 RC1 and RC2 were very similar, so i'd say we can take RC1 tests as valid for RC2 in most cases. 17:37:37 I feel like coverage is decent - only missing a few tests for alpha 17:37:40 Just to note: Server didn't see any changes between RC1 and RC2, so I only did spot checks on RC2. 17:37:47 but nothign sticks out as particularly explody 17:37:53 Minus an SELinux patch 17:38:23 we're missing fileconflicts, i can run that. 17:38:49 'generic netinst' is expected to be missing for tcs/rcs as that image doesn't exist, so that's fine. 17:39:13 there's good old 'install to SAS', which i'm now leaving on there as a brown M&Ms thing. 17:39:49 we're missing release blocking desktop tests for ARM, pwhalen are you there? 17:40:17 There is an issue with KDE on at least some arm hw platforms, we're still investigating it, but we dont think that its a blocker 17:40:19 or anyone else with hardware that can actually run 23 with graphics? 17:40:33 pwhalen: what's the issue? the requirements for alpha are only 'can run a browser and a terminal'. 17:40:38 * nirik has a BBB he keeps meaning to bring back up 17:41:05 black screen with a 'x' cursor after install, no sddm 17:41:29 oh, still that? fun. it sounds...bad. 17:41:42 Bug 1250409 17:41:51 .bug 1250409 17:41:54 nirik: Bug 1250409 Graphical initial setup fails to start on KDE - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/1250409 17:42:06 adamw, we're not sure. there is an underlying kernel issue there too, which could affect it. we have someone looking at that now 17:42:47 so thats only initial-setup, if you make a user in anaconda you are ok? 17:43:07 nirik: i don't think we're talking about that bug here. 17:43:09 this is after initial0setup 17:43:28 initial setup is fine, does either tui or gui depending on who wins 17:43:33 ok. 17:43:49 I think as long as it runs and you can create a user and set root password etc it is okay 17:44:06 pwhalen: Is there a BZ for this? 17:44:33 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1251254 17:45:19 sig=11. whee 17:45:48 pwhalen: has anyone actually successfully run the image and seen a desktop? 17:45:55 because if not, that sounds pretty blocker to me. 17:46:24 * nirik sighs. 17:46:24 i am not aware of anyone being able to, nor of anyone else trying 17:46:28 adamw: going to test now 17:46:42 * nirik goes to grab the BBB 17:46:44 /me looks for that whiskey bottle 17:47:11 pwhalen: awesome. 17:47:14 nirik, bbb has an mmc issue. we're also working on that 17:47:19 sgallagh: please don't hit me with it, I don't like to waste good alcohol 17:48:02 adamw: I've had gnome and xfce on a couple of devices, haven't had time to test KDE myself 17:48:15 pbrobinson: can you boot the 23 alpha KDE image on one of them? 17:48:20 pbrobinson: I specified "empty" the first time I mentioned it. 17:48:38 adamw: not quickly 17:48:51 * adamw tried to do this yesterday and found none of his three ARM devices is actually viable for testing. 17:49:12 adamw, we'll fix that next week 17:49:33 we've also got some hw to give to a few lucky kde devs. 17:49:39 adamw: what 3 arm devices do you have? 17:49:56 * roshi has a BBB here 17:50:04 should I find the cables and stuff? 17:50:33 roshi: not for BBB, it's got issues that I'm trying to fix ATM 17:50:39 kk 17:50:45 roshi, for beta that will help. there is an issue with external mmc on bbb, would need to dd to the internal mmc 17:50:49 aside from an rpi - that's all I have 17:51:46 and KDE won't fit on internal mmc 17:52:04 * nirik gets back with his BBB and reads backscroll. dho. 17:52:12 heh 17:52:24 I can try a pxe install to a highbank device if it would help? 17:52:24 pbrobinson: a cubox, a trimslice, and a BBB 17:52:48 but I guess not, since you want to test the kde image. 17:53:04 adamw: first two might be OK, I don't know the current reqs for KDE in terms of GPU though 17:53:42 pbrobinson, i think he needs a fw upgrade on the TS 17:53:55 bringing my cable for that 17:54:13 pbrobinson: there's no indication in the wiki that there's any official support for the cubox. my trimslice just sits at a black screen eternally when i try and boot it, apparently it can't output firmware or boot progress screens over HDMI or some crap so it's basically impossible to tell what's going on with it. 17:54:49 adamw: oh :( 17:55:15 adamw: cuboxi should be there in F-23, we might even soon have full accel graphics for it 17:55:35 ok, great - so how do i set up the image for the cubox? 17:56:04 * dgilmore is putting KDE image on sdcard 17:56:15 thought I had KDE on one but it was Xfce 17:58:57 fileconflicts passes, btw. 17:59:33 ... and there was much rejoicing 18:01:07 so now we are just waiting for kde on arm? 18:01:29 nirik: that is my understaning too 18:02:12 same here 18:02:42 The next topic is to make Go/No-Decision, so we need to wait to be sure whether we have a blocker or not 18:03:33 so, would it be usefull to do a highbank pxe install? if that worked I should be able to run a browser there, but not sure if thats valid for the critera 18:05:02 nirik, i didnt think it would. the browser could be installed elsewhere I would think. the optional desktops work 18:05:23 ok. 18:06:23 nirik: i'd take it as a data point. 18:06:34 nirik: assuming you'd be testing KDE. 18:06:49 well, I'd have to run it in vnc.... 18:06:56 but I could try that if it's of use 18:06:56 lets see if X and sddm starts 18:07:24 btw, did anyone have an answer for how i test on a cubox? because i'm totally happy to do it if someone tells me the steps to prepare the media. 18:08:20 adamw, i dont have one yet, sorry. been looking to order 18:09:46 pbrobinson: ^ 18:10:46 adamw: fedora-arm-installer --target=mx6cuboxi --media=DEVICE --image=IMAGE 18:11:47 nirik adamw: I can run a browser and a terminal on ARM, I just don't use KDE, not sure if we can sign it off on XFCE or gnome? 18:12:14 pbrobinson: not really. we agreed that the blocking desktop for ARM was KDE. 18:12:33 this was at flock last year or the year before, i think you were there. 18:13:28 adamw: ah, OK, I thought we decided it was XFCE but I don't remember, XFCE is much more widely used and performant IMO 18:14:37 pbrobinson: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-08-12/fedora-qa.2013-08-12-14.31.html/ 18:14:41 was the follow-up QA meeting 18:15:47 https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fedora-qa/fedora-qa.2013-08-12-14.31.log.html/ 18:16:09 proposed #agreed release blocking image set for ARM will consist of minimal and KDE images for F20 18:16:14 +1 18:16:18 +1 18:17:29 adamw: 2013 seems a long time ago :) 18:19:13 * nirik is doing a f23alpharc2 pxe install on a highbank soc 18:19:35 and... bzzzzzzzzzzzt. no go 18:20:11 http://paste.fedoraproject.org/252801/89716001/ 18:20:13 nirik: The install failed or the boot failed? 18:20:25 pbrobinson: welp, no-one ever proposed changing it... 18:20:29 boot worked, loaded kickstart and boom 18:21:31 adamw, KDE has become more resource intensive. perhaps we should consider it 18:21:46 pwhalen: with the move to 5 you mean? 18:22:19 nirik: yes 18:22:34 nirik, that is the underlying kernel bug. doesnt always happen, i just provisioned a system with 23alpharc2 to look at it. pbrobinson has also been working with upstream to isolate it 18:22:37 nirik: I'm not even sure if it's like gnome now and needs 3D 18:22:37 hum, apparently cubox doesn't boot from usb or something. /me writes again to a microSD. 18:22:39 nirik, right 18:22:54 ok, fair. 18:23:02 * nirik can try again for grins 18:23:10 so, wait, there's a known kernel bug which causes ARM systems to just crash at random? 18:23:23 nirik: is it this bug? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1250613 18:23:34 adamw: some systems, and it's been quite random 18:23:36 would we be considering releasing if there was a known kernel bug which caused x86_64 systems to just crash at random? 18:23:51 probably not 18:23:56 in most cases, the system remains usable. 18:23:59 pbrobinson: looks similar at least 18:24:13 adamw: We have done so on many occasions... 18:24:16 installs complete, but it can take longer 18:24:20 sgallagh: I mean, *all* x86_64 systems. 18:24:22 (Usually related to uncommon hardware) 18:24:25 kde5 requires working 3d acceleration same as gnome 18:24:36 we do not quite have that 18:24:39 adamw: this isn't all systems 18:24:45 Which means that the KDE criterion for ARM is basically impossible to meet 18:24:55 pbrobinson: which ones aren't affected? 18:24:58 adamw: and we don't block x86 on specific HW bug 18:25:01 :( and of course we are just finding that out now. ;( 18:25:08 sgallagh: well, it should presumably run with emulation. 18:25:20 but yes, if what people want is for KDE to not be the blocking desktop for ARM, the ideal time to decide this is not the go/no-go meeting. 18:25:23 and in fact, it worked fine on another boot (so far) it's installing away 18:25:27 adamw: BBB on mmc, Mirabox, a number of allwinner systems 18:25:29 adamw: quite 18:25:59 there are as much KDE users as there are GNOME users 18:26:12 kinokoio: we're talking specifically about ARM, here 18:26:13 not on arm. in fact i am not sure anyone uses kde. 18:26:54 OK, rdieter tells me in #fedora-kde that there's no real emulation mode 18:27:04 "llvmpipe theoretically works for some apps, but not everything" 18:27:39 sgallagh: OK, so it does need 3D which means it's not really a viable desktop for ARM at the moment 18:27:54 That's what I'm hearing from rdieter. 18:28:04 * nirik face palms. 18:28:07 doesn't necessarily explain why even SDDM doesn't start, but what the hell. 18:28:14 it might be on tegra RSN but not for alpha 18:28:42 ok, so, slip? switch blocking to Xfce? demote arm to secondary again? drink? 18:28:46 adamw: if it's expecting specific GPU features and not getting them it would 18:28:52 tbh, I always wondered why a lighter weight DE wasn't the default for arm 18:28:57 nirik: Definitely drink 18:29:03 * pbrobinson already is 18:29:10 roshi: Purely so we didn't add a *third* blocking desktop 18:29:18 ah 18:29:21 nirik, id like to see a light weight desktop for arm. i think the rational was not to add another for PA 18:29:23 right 18:29:26 what about the "A DE has to work" 18:29:31 well, slipping makes fairly little sense if the reason for slipping is that KDE doesn't work and there's no realistic prospect of making KDE work. 18:29:36 then we can fix the least broken one when the time comes :p 18:29:37 * roshi ducks 18:29:50 (02:29:01 PM) rdieter: sgallagh: *if* we choose to block, we'll block for quite awhile... I think it's fixable (building some/all of the stack to support egl instead) 18:29:51 (02:29:33 PM) rdieter: So... my opinion: probably not worth blocking 18:29:51 adamw, or anyone who uses it, save me checking that it works. 18:29:51 adamw: agreed 18:30:25 ok, so do we know if any other desktops work/pass this? 18:30:29 OK so do we sign off XFCE and move on? 18:30:36 mate, xfce and lxde all work 18:30:39 pbrobinson: on a practical level, fine. 18:31:00 on an organizational level, i'm gonna say personally, this crapola seriously decreases my confidence in ARM as a primary arch from a release standpoint 18:31:35 why is this happening *now*? i mean, everyone knows how the release process works, right? if any more crap like this comes up i'd be inclined to talk about ways we can decrease ARM's prominence when it comes to releases 18:31:41 at the very least, we need more people with h/w to test it 18:32:10 there are other meanings to primary arch vs. secondary arch, but if we don't even notice until go/no-go that the supposed release blocking desktop can't possibly work, then things clearly aren't going right 18:32:15 i could definitely use some help testing. 18:32:24 adamw: I've been under so much load I've probably not done the breadth of testing, it ends up being scale 18:32:49 testing is part of it, but knowing that you don't want KDE to be the release blocking desktop isn't testing. 18:32:54 adamw: and I don't follow all the changes to all the desktops, it's simply not possible to keep up with everything 18:32:55 proposal: change arm releasing blocking desktop tests to Xfce for now, -1 blocker the ssdm bug on the basis of it no longer being release blocking, move on for now 18:33:10 I can live with that 18:33:15 as can I 18:33:17 lets have a nice discussion of that on list? I don't think we can solve this today here. 18:33:23 but +1 to adamw's thoughts 18:33:31 yeah, I just wanted to flag up that this is not business as usual. 18:33:49 this should have been known long before now and migrated to another DE if that's what the arm folks want 18:34:11 Didn't F22 ship with Plasma 5? 18:34:11 adamw roshi: agreed, I dropped the ball on that one, sorry 18:34:14 I think we have been leaning on pwhalen too much to do all arm things qa wise. if arm is really primary we should have many more people testing 18:34:20 How did *that* work? 18:34:42 Eh, irrelevant 18:34:48 nirik: I agree 18:34:49 I think we have the same issues in cloud land as well 18:34:53 there are only so many cycles in a day pbrobinson 18:34:59 sgallagh, it worked.. very slowly. but it did work, not sure the change 18:35:06 we're getting that fixed in cloud, at least 18:35:10 dgilmore: yeah, althought there we didn't have images even to test for a while 18:35:13 * roshi is pushing hard on the test front 18:35:38 nirik: the thing is, when i want to do x86_64 testing i do a 'dd' and stick the stick in a machine and boot it up 18:35:52 nirik: right, but they could work on fixing that 18:35:55 when i want to do ARM testing i...go read the wiki for some exotic instructions which always seem to be out of date then find none of it seems to work 18:35:58 true, cloud and arm are more setup for sure 18:36:06 anyway we will not solve the world's problems here 18:36:11 not blaming anyone, but it just seems like it's always difficult to actually get the point where you *do some testing* 18:36:11 adamw: yeah, thats definitely an issue too. 18:36:37 seems like every time i say 'oh hey i'll go do some ARM testing' i wind up surrounded by wiki pages, cables, google search results and whiskey bottles, and with no actual testing happening. 18:36:43 /me wonders if we could leverage Beaker here somehow 18:36:49 adamw, that shouldnt be the case. ping me 18:37:02 adamw: I don't think that's particularly fair, fedora-arm-installer has been the mechanism for a few releases now 18:37:02 or simplify testing in virt 18:37:09 pwhalen wants some of adamw's whiskey :) 18:37:19 * pbrobinson needs a lot 18:37:30 if the wikis out of date, we can fix it. i try to stay on it 18:37:40 pwhalen: well, it doesn't list cubox at all, for instance 18:37:51 ok, so how to deal with it atm ? Wave the bug for now and change the KDE on ARM criterion to something lighter ? 18:38:02 adamw, largely because i dont have it myself. 18:38:06 jkurik: i think we mostly all agreed to switch it to be Xfce for now. 18:38:09 that seems to be the call right now jkurik 18:38:20 adamw: cuboxi support landed in u-boot only a few weeks ago 18:38:40 anyone object to the proposal? votes? 18:38:46 proposal: change arm releasing blocking desktop tests to Xfce for now, -1 blocker the ssdm bug on the basis of it no longer being release blocking, move on for now 18:38:53 nirik: +1 18:38:53 +1 18:38:57 +1 18:38:59 +1 18:39:29 +1 18:39:55 #agreed change arm releasing blocking desktop tests to Xfce for now, -1 blocker the ssdm bug on the basis of it no longer being release blocking, move on for now 18:40:05 (Just to be clear, Xfce wasn't previously release-blocking anywhere, right? So that's its own potential excitement.) 18:40:10 mattdm: right. 18:40:14 yes 18:40:17 but hey, nirik's the maintainer, you're good for it, right? 18:40:35 sure. I have tons of time to work on it. ;) 18:40:36 nirik, i will bribe you appropriately. 18:40:40 * nirik kids 18:40:54 moving on ... 18:40:56 anyhow if the arm folks want a different one or none, thats up to them to change. 18:40:59 #topic Go/No-Go decision 18:41:00 /me is definitely bringing whiskey to Flock 18:41:03 but soon. 18:41:30 So, now that we have lowered the bar to the point where we can step over it... Go? 18:41:33 nirik, thank you, we will discuss it 18:41:34 sgallagh, might be cheaper to buy it there 18:41:53 sgallagh: indeed. go before we trip over the bar. 18:41:55 so we waived the KDE on ARM; we waived the wallpapers; anything else what might blocks ? 18:41:56 Southern_Gentlem: Well, that's kind of what I meant. Acquire it and bring it to the hotel/venue 18:41:59 sgallagh: I'll have a litre of scotch 18:42:16 pbrobinson: I call that an "appetizer" after this week... 18:42:21 jkurik: hell, let's just buy some sharks, slap on a 'Fedora 23 Alpha' label and set them free on a beach somewhere 18:42:32 sgallagh: pussy ;-) 18:42:55 sgallagh: but this week has been hell! 18:43:14 Phoronix can run the photos with the headline 'Fedora 23 Alpha released, several dead' 18:43:29 heh 18:43:35 adamw: "Survivors envy the dead" 18:43:43 * dgilmore hides behind adamw 18:43:45 where does one go to purchase live sharks? 18:43:55 that'd be a TIL I'd be proud of 18:43:55 Sharks R Us 18:43:57 ;p 18:44:05 roshi: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=buy+live+sharks 18:44:09 roshi: you need to hunt some 18:44:12 Err, http://www.sharksupply.com/ 18:44:16 adamw: s/Phoronix/Moronix 18:44:21 This was the first hit. Holy crap 18:44:24 roshi: it's really hard, you may need to settle for agitated sea bass 18:44:25 sgallagh: ah, once again life beats satire. 18:44:50 tflink: Are they ill-tempered? 18:44:58 did i get my quote wrong? 18:45:21 sgallagh: both agitated and ill-tempered 18:46:03 OK, back to the topic at hand 18:46:15 proposal #agreed Fedora 23 Alpha RC2 status is GO by Release Engineering, QA and Development 18:46:22 ack 18:46:24 ack 18:46:31 ack 18:46:48 ack 18:46:51 * adamw determinedly doesn't notice the major firefox security vulnerability we're shipping. 18:46:59 QA acks per the tattered remains of our policy. 18:47:41 pretty much 18:47:41 adamw++ 18:47:41 mattdm: Karma for adamwill changed to 8: https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 18:47:59 #agreed Fedora 23 Alpha RC2 status is GO by Release Engineering, QA and Development 18:48:12 alright, see you all down at the pub 18:48:15 #action jkurik to announce the GO decision 18:48:19 Releng says go 18:48:46 jkurik: you are supposed to get votes from all three teams 18:48:51 dgilmore: sorry 18:48:53 hey look a t that, retroactive agreement 18:49:02 dgilmore: nirik did say ack. :) 18:49:18 adamw: he reperesnts engineering here I think 18:49:25 anyway :P 18:49:27 whatever 18:49:32 * nirik shrugs. sure, ask everyone, whatever works. 18:49:37 * nirik is down on process right now. 18:50:08 #topic Open floor 18:50:15 anything else ? 18:50:32 not here 18:51:12 Good meeting 18:51:12 FWIW, I was covering for dev, so we had acks from all three groups 18:51:32 I do not know some things you mention here but it is interesting to learn 18:51:48 potty: never take a tour of the sausage factory. 18:51:58 Purely hypothetically, if I was to arrive at flock with a trunk full of whiskey.. what brand would it be? 18:52:04 sgallagh: nirik has the power vote from sticker 18:52:13 sgallagh: any 18:52:15 Lol 18:52:16 sgallagh: the smooth stuff - the kind where you get your sight back after five days, guaranteed 18:52:42 * tflink is bringing his bottle of fedora qa brand whisky - "freeze exception" 18:52:43 ^^ that 18:53:07 https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-3525.aspx 18:53:09 /me will shop around for "process exception", then 18:53:27 in the long run it just proved cheaper for QA to distill their own than buy it...even wholesale 18:54:13 the project you know as 'taskotron' is in fact just an elaborate cover for our distillery. 18:54:19 OK, I think everyone is either drunk or punch-drunk at this point. Let's close up shop? 18:54:25 adamw: hush, nobody's supposed to know that 18:54:50 ok, sounds like we can end this meeting 18:55:00 last call .... 18:55:17 :) 18:56:04 #endmeeting