18:00:11 #startmeeting Flock next-gen software 18:00:11 Meeting started Wed Sep 16 18:00:11 2015 UTC. The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:16 #meetingname flocksoftware 18:00:16 The meeting name has been set to 'flocksoftware' 18:00:21 #topic Roll call 18:00:25 .hello pfrields 18:00:26 stickster: pfrields 'Paul W. Frields' 18:00:28 .hello duffy 18:00:33 mizmo: duffy 'Máirín Duffy' 18:00:54 * stickster gives a few minutes for others 18:02:08 but only a few ;-) 18:03:20 hi 18:03:26 doing double duty with fesco 18:03:59 jwb: understood, sorry for the conflict 18:04:13 stickster: hi 18:04:20 #chair mizmo jwb rsuehle croberts 18:04:20 Current chairs: croberts jwb mizmo rsuehle stickster 18:04:46 #topic Reports on software 18:05:43 * stickster looks for link, gah 18:05:49 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flock_2016_software 18:05:59 OK, first thing is to report updates on software we reviewed for next year use 18:06:13 mizmo: I hate monopolizing the mic, are you inclined to start here? 18:06:34 ive only tried the OSEM instance you set up, but i was a bit underwhelmed at the functionality :( 18:07:01 mizmo: It was promising at first -- I had done some pre-setup before you signed in, and that part went pretty nicely 18:07:26 mizmo: But once the initial tasks were done, it was clear the software wasn't ready for some of the execution parts, like setting up a schedule 18:07:56 i'm still not sure replacing sched.org is a priority 18:08:12 the schedule is one of the easiest parts 18:08:14 * spot agrees. that part just works, and works very well. 18:08:22 #chair spot 18:08:22 Current chairs: croberts jwb mizmo rsuehle spot stickster 18:08:25 o/ spot! 18:08:25 ugh im trying to log back in as a refresher and am not able to get in 18:08:57 mizmo: Hang on, let me check 18:09:06 it does handle registration, and it does handle proposal submission and acceptance 18:09:21 does it handle email/notification of various things? 18:09:52 that im not sure - the reason i can't log in is because it never emailed me an account confirmation mail 18:10:02 mizmo: That might be a server config issue :-( 18:10:04 so the first time i logged in and poked around it worked untli the session expired 18:10:16 mizmo: We can try and resolve when finished 18:10:19 stickster, if i make another account now can you give it admin? 18:10:22 Yes 18:10:30 oh 18:10:32 nevermind i just got in 18:10:35 * mizmo scratches her head 18:11:25 The upshot for this software, though, is that mizmo and I tooled around in it for a while, and it was clearly not ready to execute on a conference without a good deal of additional development... 18:11:51 and it's in Ruby, which means we don't have a bunch of skilled people in this circle ready to jump in and finish features 18:11:55 jwb, so it sends emails when the user registers for the conference - it sends an email when proposals are accepted or rejected, it sends emails if a user's proposal is accepted but they haven't registered 18:12:03 all of those proposals are customizable via a template system 18:12:18 * stickster trying to locate *his* creds :-D 18:12:24 it also sends out emails if conference details changed (eg the dates, registration deadline, venue update) 18:12:46 and it sends out call for papers dates / schedule / updates are made 18:12:47 It also sets up a useful front page automatically with conference details, which changes over time as various deadlines pass 18:13:06 none of our existing software does all that 18:13:31 you can set up the types of talks people can give (eg 45 min talk vs 2 hour workshop) and it updates the submission form with what you set up as options 18:14:07 it has a little tool that manages your donors too 18:14:16 so it'll list out the donor and sponsorship level and track that 18:14:31 ok. stickster can you qualify what you just said then? 18:14:33 it has a ticket system too if you want ppl to buy tickets for things (the example in the system right now is a lunch ticket) 18:14:51 i mean, ruby aside, this does way more than anything we currently have 18:15:19 i guess it promised a lot on the website that i didnt see it doing :) 18:15:19 jwb: I'm trying to locate my notes, the problems I saw were on the back side 18:15:34 ARGH dammit 18:15:40 * stickster curses his lack of sysadmin-fu 18:16:57 i'll note we have at least one or two ruby enthusiastic contributors. if the backend doesn't look like hamsters chasing plastic blocks of cheese, we might be able to mitigate our lack of ruby-fu by reaching out to them. 18:17:11 Could be 18:17:24 * stickster will have to work on recovering his login later 18:17:44 i guess voting is the big main thing it doesn't have 18:18:25 We could probably jerry-rig that by doing an appropriate SQL query, loading that into the elections app, etc. 18:20:09 we could. i am not a fan of our elections app 18:20:21 or rather, i am not a fan of our voting method in our elections app 18:20:32 it's very cumbersome for anything more than about 7 choices 18:20:48 yeh thats why we use nuancier for supplemental wallpapers 18:20:57 usually have 50+ to vote from 18:21:33 well if we went OSEM we might have to solve the voting problem with something else besides the elections app 18:21:38 mizmo: Something else I noticed was that not all the rooms showed up on the internal schedule listing 18:21:58 stickster, the internal schedule seemed really funky to me 18:22:03 potentially broken 18:22:18 jwb: ^ Not sure that's important vs. sched.org either -- maybe all of the room/topic stuff is easier to handle there 18:23:24 stickster, oh those rooms are there, you have to scroll waaayy down to see them 18:23:29 but the schedule thing almost seems like a separate appp 18:24:04 mizmo: whoops, you're right! 18:24:32 ohhh when yo uhave accepted talks though you can drag and drop them into different schedule slots and rooms 18:24:33 kind of nice 18:24:34 * stickster can't see how it's supposed to function here. But this is probably getting OT since sched.org is working OK, and this is probably less critical 18:25:10 if you expand your browser width on a humongo screen they do float back up 18:25:11 * stickster notes that he *did* do quite a bit of survey of WP plugins, though, and these were generally single-purpose, not a full integrated system like OSEM 18:25:30 I left notes on the wiki page for these IIRC 18:25:53 maybe its a good contender 18:26:07 its between that, openconference ware, and zookeeper i think had the most potential 18:27:03 So OSEM == worth more research 18:27:33 I admit after the first day or two of testing, I had to drop for other things, and since I can't find my notes (good job stickster) my impressions are not super helpful 18:27:47 mizmo: Did you try openconferenceware? 18:28:06 i think part of the problem is the OSEM website was so polished, i was expecting that level of polish in the UI, but it's more basic. but basic can get the job done 18:28:13 stickster, i didn't, not sure how :-/ 18:30:08 it looks like open conference ware manages proposal submissions / acceptance too 18:30:30 and it lets admin export the proposals to CSV (maybe an option for sched.org import, not sure) 18:31:08 OCW has a voting thing for proposals too, but you have to add individual people to vote as 'selection committee' members 18:31:11 so its not an open vote 18:31:49 it seems more limited compared to OSEM 18:31:59 getting fas integration there doesn't sound _too_ hard? 18:32:34 jwb: FAS integration shouldn't be too hard -- I believe there's a plugin system for auth 18:32:39 it does say users can login via openid 18:32:53 aside from the proposal selection committee voting, any user can 'favorite' a session proposal 18:32:57 mizmo: Especially once the sysadmin does his job and hooks up proper mail delivery ;-) 18:32:59 but i dont think theres limits on that 18:33:27 yehi dont see any mention of the mail nags, etc in the feature list of OCW but maybe they just forgot to mentoin it? 18:33:35 i cant imagine a system with these features working well without that 18:34:00 #info probably more todo to check out OpenConferenceWare -- need a test system 18:35:18 Looking down the list... SCaLE Reg is not going to really solve enough of the problem to be worth using. Plus, its documentation is nonexistent, and no helpful UI to get you through setup 18:35:58 Or at least, I couldn't find one when I tried; I gave up eventually 18:36:04 strike it down 18:36:09 Did anyone here from Jon about Frab? 18:36:15 kwizart: ^ 18:36:30 Oops, sorry kwizart, wrong nick 18:37:17 * stickster wracks brain for right nick <-> person mapping 18:37:21 looks like zookeepr does registration, cfp, paper review, inventory, badge printing, volunteer workflow, social networks, funding, schedule, photos 18:37:29 wow 18:37:41 the paper review system is similar to ocw in that it assumes a review committee 18:37:46 not an open vote 18:37:46 Do you know if Ryan set up a test system for people to try? 18:37:57 i dont, i think he intended to talk to donna benjamin about it 18:38:21 is that the one that rsuehle had recommended at flock? 18:39:06 Not sure, it's the one LCA uses 18:39:22 it gives you reports on proposla submission extensions, the speakers who had talks accepted, which proposers asked for financial assistance, who created an acct and didn't register, who has to be reminded they didn't pay yet, who signed up as a volunteer, who didn't agree to the a/v release, etc 18:39:27 they have a big list of reports they can generate 18:39:28 jwb, it is 18:39:53 yeah, that's the one I mentioned 18:39:54 it apparently generates badges and printed programs and xml metadata to inject into talk videos 18:40:12 mizmo: Looks like I need to get this one up on the server too 18:40:28 this is a ~2011 presentation from one of the developers i got this info from: http://www.slideshare.net/pfctdayelise/zookeepr-homegrown-conference-management-software 18:40:33 #action stickster get zookeepr test instance running 18:41:15 their developers list mailman archives has a permission error tho lol 18:41:20 cant tell how active they are now 18:41:42 * stickster notes they have a bit of "paper chair/reviewer" in there, as long as we can find a way to short-circuit that process this looks pretty interesting 18:42:04 github shows commits within the last month 18:42:11 they let you do arbitrary static pages too which i think is useful, i didnt see that in osem 18:42:21 eg one of their static pages is the code of conduct 18:43:12 mizmo: That is super helpful 18:43:38 #action get mail delivery working properly on host so we can better continue testing 18:43:43 #undo 18:43:43 Removing item from minutes: ACTION by stickster at 18:43:38 : get mail delivery working properly on host so we can better continue testing 18:43:46 #action stickster get mail delivery working properly on host so we can better continue testing 18:44:47 i made an accounton the LCA website but you cant do much from it right now 18:45:34 so the one thing we know OSEM does we aren't 100% how OCW or zookeepr do is the automated email nags 18:46:06 none of the three seem to do anything to enable remote attendees 18:46:26 *nod 18:46:31 ocw and zookeeper have the committee based voting and OSEM has no voting 18:46:41 OK, so IIUC we probably want to keep looking at OSEM, zookeepr, and possibly OCW? 18:46:46 those seem to be the major differences 18:46:49 yeh i think so 18:47:00 I guess neither zookeepr nor OCW has been really setup yet, so I'll try to do that shortly 18:47:11 #action stickster get OCW test site running too 18:47:22 and i think - if we can get one of those three to work, it'll save a lot of the manual email nagging effort because of how integrated they are. i think any custom solution isn't going to do the nagging we want 18:47:38 (by custom, i mean a lego bucket of WP plugins) 18:48:14 mizmo: Would you be able to set up some wiki page/template for these sites with either light "use case" type organization, or a simple table of y/n features we can use to compare apples to apples? 18:48:22 sure i can do that 18:48:30 If anyone else has suggestions, all ears :-) 18:49:11 #action mizmo set up wiki page/template for project comparisons and testing workflows consistently 18:49:47 #agreed continue looking at OSEM, zookeepr, and OpenConferenceWare 18:49:58 #topic Any other information? 18:50:10 #idea when to meet up again 18:50:45 rsuehle: jwb: spot: We don't want to spin wheels forever on software, obviously. Flock wheels have to start turning at some point. Can you help us with timeline? 18:51:31 * spot is unaware of wheels not turning at any point 18:51:40 ha 18:51:53 Yeah, bids are kind of in. So the most relevant date is probably when a decision will be made about venue, because I expect shortly thereafter you'd want a site running 18:52:18 the CFP opened last March. 18:52:39 it would be really swell if whatever solution we were using was well tested before March 1 18:52:56 spot: I think we ought to be able to do that. 18:53:24 What if we set an update meeting for 2 weeks out, to make sure all the actions here got done, and report back results of more testing 18:53:38 mizmo: is that too tight? 18:54:00 * stickster gets set to brush up on his Postfix 18:54:06 stickster, i can do that 18:54:26 #action stickster to schedule a meeting ~2 weeks out, this time not colliding with FESCo ;-) 18:54:42 Anything else before we close? 18:54:51 * stickster sets 60 sec time 18:56:26 OK, thanks everyone 18:56:28 #endmeeting