22:58:44 <echevemaster> #startmeeting Latam Ambassadors meeting
22:58:44 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat May 21 22:58:44 2016 UTC.  The chair is echevemaster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:58:44 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
22:58:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'latam_ambassadors_meeting'
22:59:05 <echevemaster> #topic Roll call
22:59:12 <echevemaster> .fas echevemaster
22:59:12 <zodbot> echevemaster: echevemaster 'Eduardo Javier Echeverria Alvarado' <echevemaster@gmail.com>
22:59:21 <sr_kraken> .fas srkraken
22:59:21 <zodbot> sr_kraken: srkraken 'Efren Antonio Robledo Moreno' <efren.a.rm@gmail.com>
22:59:22 * echevemaster Venezuela, Colombia
22:59:33 <athos> .fas athoscribeiro
22:59:33 <zodbot> athos: ribeiro 'Athos Ribeiro' <athoscribeiro@gmail.com>
22:59:39 * sr_kraken México
22:59:49 * athos Brazil
23:00:27 <alexove> .fas alexove
23:00:27 <zodbot> alexove: alexove 'Alex Irmel Oviedo Solis' <alleinerwolf@gmail.com>
23:00:34 * alexove = Peru
23:00:44 <potty> .hello potty
23:00:45 <zodbot> potty: potty 'Abdel G. Martínez L.' <abdel.g.martinez.l@gmail.com>
23:00:52 * potty got two topics to talk about
23:01:02 <echevemaster> #chair alexove potty
23:01:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: alexove echevemaster potty
23:01:19 <echevemaster> potty: Do you want bring on the table after or before alexove ?
23:01:28 <potty> After alexove
23:01:52 * potty is from Panama
23:01:53 <echevemaster> ok, got it.
23:01:55 <wolnei> .fas wolnei
23:01:56 <zodbot> wolnei: wolnei 'Wolnei Cândido Tomazelli Junior' <e@wolnei.com.br>
23:02:31 <wolnei> Brazil
23:02:40 <echevemaster> today we have only a ticket on the agenda, in addition to the topics that potty want discuss.
23:02:49 <echevemaster> so, let start.
23:03:10 <echevemaster> #topic Funding request for alexove for travel to Puno for FUDCon coordination meetings
23:03:21 <echevemaster> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-latam/ticket/349
23:03:36 * potty is reviewing
23:03:50 <alyaj2a> .fas alyaj2a
23:03:51 <zodbot> alyaj2a: alyaj2a 'Aly Yuliza Machaca Mamani' <alyaj2a@gmail.com>
23:04:24 <echevemaster> alexove: wants visit puno to help Fudcon owners with the venue.
23:04:32 <potty> +1
23:04:54 <echevemaster> alexove: Do you want explain us or add something?
23:05:03 <potty> Nothing to discuss here. I only need that alexove make his progress report after the visit.
23:05:05 <echevemaster> from me +1.?
23:05:20 <itamarjp_> +1
23:05:22 <potty> Could be using the mailing list or the next meeting after the visit.
23:05:24 <echevemaster> +1 here,
23:05:35 <alexove> +1 for me ;-)
23:05:43 <wolnei> +1
23:05:48 <potty> alexove got the experience from previous FUDCon and he is a vital contributor on Peru.
23:05:52 <athos> +1
23:06:03 <potty> But PLEASE remember the progress report.
23:06:13 <echevemaster> alexove: depends on your answer and report we will discuss the call of papers date.
23:06:31 <alexove> Yes I know
23:06:32 <tonet666p> .fas tonet666p
23:06:32 <zodbot> tonet666p: tonet666p 'Tonet Pascualet Jallo Colquehuanca' <tonet666p@gmail.com>
23:06:39 * tonet666p from Perú
23:06:46 <echevemaster> #agreed on ticket 319
23:06:53 <alexove> this is precisely the reason for the visit
23:06:53 <Kohane> Hi!
23:07:09 <potty> Thank you
23:07:10 <alexove> thanks guys
23:07:18 <potty> You are welcome
23:07:23 <echevemaster> ok, next topic, please go ahead potty
23:07:39 <potty> I will mix up both topics because they are related
23:07:42 <echevemaster> sorry #undo
23:07:45 <echevemaster> #undo
23:07:45 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by echevemaster at 23:06:46 : on ticket 319
23:07:52 <echevemaster> #agreed on ticket 349
23:07:55 <echevemaster> done.
23:08:06 <potty> #topic Fedora LATAM budget decision and usage strategy
23:08:13 <potty> Let me set the scenario.
23:08:20 <Kohane> OK
23:09:19 <potty> Council approve LATAM only $11,950 out of the $23,000 we asked for. The main reason is because we overask and underspend. The approved number is the result of misusage of our budget.
23:09:40 <potty> I discussed this topic with some people and got their opinions.
23:09:40 <Kohane> Right.
23:10:02 <Kohane> With whom you discussed with?
23:10:05 <potty> What I identify as the problem is related to three facts:
23:10:08 <Kohane> If I may ask..
23:10:31 <potty> 1. People don't know how to fill the reimbursement tickets.
23:11:14 <Kohane> Yes.
23:11:17 <potty> 2. People don't fill their reports and don't participate on every event we already wrote on the wiki.
23:11:31 <Kohane> Yes.
23:11:35 <potty> 3. The reimbursement strategy is not effective for every country in LATAM.
23:11:55 <Kohane> AGREED
23:12:16 <potty> So to approach this issue I would propose to do some things:
23:12:47 <potty> 1. Make a special meeting were we dedicate some time to explain how to open tickets on Fedora LATAM Trac.
23:13:44 <potty> Including: using Trac, open ticket, edit ticket and upload receipts (including the technique to scan or photo them).
23:14:02 <Kohane> yes
23:14:13 <potty> 2. Write a dedicated wiki page were we transcript what we taught on this special meeting.
23:14:24 <echevemaster> Kohane: sorry, after potty ends, give your comments.
23:14:40 <Kohane> ok, sorry
23:14:44 <potty> Including: all the steps to ask for reimbursements, just like a workflow
23:16:00 <potty> 3. Will ask every country to see which is the best method to get money. Right now we have Paypal, Payoneer, using Red Hat offices, having extra Red Hat cardholders and any other you may suggestZ
23:16:27 <potty> 4. Propose to the council a new (or extra) strategy for reimbursements.
23:16:52 <potty> For what I see, people don't invest on Fedora things because is complex to receive their money back.
23:17:42 <potty> Mainly that is the idea: to make you all concious of the process, learn the proper way to do it and while we do things right propose to Council an extra reimbursement strategy.
23:17:46 <potty> EOF
23:17:52 <potty> Any questions?
23:18:04 <echevemaster> !
23:18:04 <Kohane> Let me read...
23:18:13 <potty> echevemaster: go ahead
23:18:13 <echevemaster> step by step
23:18:41 <Kohane> !
23:18:42 <echevemaster> point one, we have to discuss this point face to face
23:18:56 <echevemaster> via hangout or any videoconference tool
23:19:15 <echevemaster> so, next week meeting could be via hangout
23:19:45 <echevemaster> and we make a chapter, explaining people about how fill their tickets
23:19:51 <echevemaster> EOF
23:20:06 <echevemaster> who is willing?
23:20:06 <athos> would that be in english or spanish? (the hangout)
23:20:13 <itamarjp_> not everyone has a fast connection example -> wolnei has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:20:15 <Kohane> Mmm...  it's really hard to me to get online using wifi on Saturdays.  And 3G is useless for videoconferences
23:20:17 * athos is
23:20:19 <echevemaster> athos, could be in english
23:20:20 <potty> So your idea echevemaster is to have this special meeting to have it in a Hangout.
23:20:41 <echevemaster> only for help to the people in this matter
23:20:43 <potty> I agree with that. The idea could be record it and upload it on Youtube.
23:20:53 <alexove> !
23:20:59 <potty> And share it on the mailing list and on the wiki.
23:21:00 <athos> +1
23:21:04 <echevemaster> IRC doesn't have facilities for explain
23:21:12 <echevemaster> ok.
23:21:15 <potty> Next comments are from Kohane
23:21:27 <potty> Please go ahead. After her is alexove.
23:21:30 <linuxmodder> .hello linuxmodder
23:21:31 <zodbot> linuxmodder: linuxmodder 'Corey W Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@openmailbox.org>
23:21:33 <linuxmodder> (from famna)
23:21:37 <echevemaster> #info next meeting will be held via videoconference
23:22:11 <potty> Kohane: go ahead
23:22:20 * potty waves at linuxmodder
23:22:23 <athos> Question: how do we calculate the requested budget for a FY?
23:22:28 <Kohane> Here PayPal not always work, I don't know what is Payoneer and I'm not aware of any Red Hat office
23:22:39 <Kohane> So I agree that there should be other options
23:22:44 <echevemaster> athos: use ! to talk
23:23:00 <athos> !
23:23:11 <echevemaster> ok, after alexove :)
23:23:56 <linuxmodder> alexove,  still here?
23:24:07 <alexove> Yes I'm here
23:24:09 * potty don't want to know the specifics per country right now, just the way we would approach this situation.
23:24:11 * sr_kraken Ok Potty suena interesante su planteamiento referente a los reembolsos
23:24:11 <linuxmodder> your up
23:24:15 <potty> Kohane: any extra comments?
23:24:16 <Kohane> Besides that, I find that writing a wiki or so with all the information about payments and so, it's a good idea.  Also we should put it in a visible place
23:24:30 <Kohane> I just sent one...
23:24:32 <echevemaster> Kohane: we have to follow the steps, first one, how to fill tickets, second, how to make good reports, third, how will be our new reimbursemnt policy.
23:24:49 <linuxmodder> !
23:25:09 <Kohane> Yes, but people seem not to be aware of its mechanism
23:25:09 <rosset> .hello filiperosset
23:25:10 <zodbot> rosset: filiperosset 'Filipe Rosset' <rosset.filipe@gmail.com>
23:25:25 <linuxmodder> rosset,  welcome
23:25:27 <echevemaster> Because of that, the next meeting Kohane
23:25:28 <yn1v> .fas yn1v
23:25:28 <zodbot> yn1v: yn1v 'Neville A. Cross' <yn1v@taygon.com>
23:25:30 <alexove> Kohane please write EOF when you finish
23:25:34 <echevemaster> linuxmodder: after athos :)
23:25:36 * yn1v Nicaragua
23:25:43 <potty> echevemaster: let Kohane finish
23:25:57 <Kohane> Oh, thanks!
23:25:57 <potty> Kohane: please share your thought then EOF please
23:26:06 <Kohane> yes, thanks
23:27:15 <kathytanai> .fas kathytanai
23:27:15 <zodbot> kathytanai: kathytanai 'Katherine Naima Fernández Valenzuela' <quehondaskn@gmail.com>
23:27:25 * kathytanai Nicaragua
23:27:27 <linuxmodder> kathytanai,  welocme
23:27:28 <Kohane> I agree with everything else said by potty.  I do see complex the process. It's kind of discouraging
23:27:29 <Kohane> EOF
23:27:43 <echevemaster> ok, athos go ahead
23:27:45 <potty> Thank you. Next is alexove
23:27:51 <echevemaster> alexove: sorry
23:27:58 <alexove> No problem
23:28:01 <potty> After alexove, athos
23:28:14 <potty> After athos, linuxmodder
23:28:15 <echevemaster> and after athos linuxmodder
23:28:20 <alexove> potty I have question for you
23:28:22 <alexove> what are the optional reimbursement method that are you propose?
23:28:37 <alexove> second: I can suggest a wiki page with more graphics like bpmn process diagram or some like this
23:28:39 <alexove> EOF
23:28:47 <potty> Let me answer
23:28:51 <echevemaster> alexove: excelent idea!
23:29:13 <echevemaster> BPMN process could be a good way to explain it.
23:29:50 * potty ia typing...
23:30:14 <potty> Paypal: is to maintain the usage of it and teach how to use it.
23:30:15 <echevemaster> potty typing slow, just kidding :)
23:30:45 <Kohane> :v
23:31:27 <linuxmodder> echevemaster,  not everyone types fast :)
23:31:32 <potty> Payoneer: it is a prepaid Master Card. Red Hat could send the reimbursement to that credit card. The only disadvantage is the countries that can not receive the plastic. In that case I propose that someone could receive the plastics and give them on next FUDCon.
23:32:01 <potty> The advantage is that you can withdraw the money using an ATM or use it on the next Fedora expense.
23:32:11 <yn1v> o/
23:32:24 <Kohane> !
23:32:28 <potty> The rule I may suggest using Payoneer is to use it exclusively for Fedora. To not mix things.
23:32:58 <Kohane> Mix things?  Like Fedora with what?
23:33:06 <potty> Red Hat Offices: before time, Red Hat send the budget on their offices. There are in Peru, Colombia, Brasil, Argentina, Chile.
23:33:17 <potty> Kohane: Fedora expenses with personal expenses.
23:33:18 <echevemaster> potty: can I be reimbursed in a USA aacount?
23:33:35 <potty> echevemaster: that is a USA bank account.
23:33:48 <Kohane> Ah, ah! Well, that was obvious to me. But of course you're right.
23:33:58 <echevemaster> yes, but if for example, you have and USA bank account
23:34:03 <echevemaster> an*
23:34:16 <potty> Red Hat Offices: So RH can send the money to the offices and then local ambassadors can redistribute the budget.
23:34:38 <potty> echevemaster: that might be another strategy.
23:34:44 <potty> Next strategy is to use
23:34:51 <yn1v> you can create a paypal account or payoneer credit card linked with a USA bank account. If you have a USA bank account you have no problem at all.
23:34:54 <Kohane> You see potty? There's no Red Hat offices in Uruguay.  And I'm not sure about Payoneer.  I never heard of it.
23:35:06 <potty> Bitcoins
23:35:36 <potty> Bitcoins: this cryptocurrency is popular and some countries have places where you can exchange them for USD (or local currency).
23:35:42 <itamarjp_> !
23:36:06 <potty> The disadvantage is that like any currency its value changes time to time.
23:36:25 <potty> So, you can receive more than expected or less than expected.
23:36:25 <yn1v> If paypal is not working in "X" country, it is most likely that payoneer won't work either. I haven't come across a case where payoneer works and paypal don't
23:36:59 <Kohane> Ah!  That explains I never heard of Payoneer,
23:37:09 <echevemaster> ok these strategies were explained the last meeting, these were added to the wiki potty ?
23:37:30 <potty> yn1v: i have one Payoneer in Panama and I can withdraw money from it.
23:37:36 <linuxmodder> pardon me , diconnected
23:37:37 <linuxmodder> potty,  btc  is  way too high a bar  for all users
23:37:39 * linuxmodder uses them but  explaining it to folks an be  hard
23:37:49 <linuxmodder> 1btc=446USD atm for ex.
23:37:54 <potty> yn1v: i have a paypal account, can receive but not withdraw.
23:38:08 <potty> final strategy proposed is to have extra red hat cardholders
23:38:26 <linuxmodder> potty,  echevemaster  save  my points for  open floor  on second thought pls
23:38:34 <linuxmodder> ^^ what famna does
23:38:35 <potty> This could help current cardholder to leverage the workload but it still represent a problem to receive money.
23:38:37 <potty> EOF
23:38:45 <echevemaster> goit it linuxmodder
23:38:50 <potty> Next is athos
23:38:56 <potty> Go ahead, athos
23:39:12 <athos> so, about the wiki:
23:39:15 <yn1v> it is bank issue, or is a contry situation? Because I have sent paypal reimburses to different people in Panamá
23:39:36 <linuxmodder> yn1v,  most times country
23:39:51 <potty> yn1v: bank issue. To be honest. If we do not have Alejandro, we can not see cash.
23:39:53 <athos> I think it could bring extra information on how the budget for a FY is calculated as well
23:40:18 <potty> If we receive Paypal, we just got virtual money and local places do not accept Paypal.
23:40:20 <athos> also, if we go for payoneer, one of the meetings could be set just to request all the cards
23:40:23 <potty> Sorry athos go ahead
23:40:43 <athos> so no one would have problems requesting their cards and we could also document how to do it for different countries
23:40:46 <athos> EOF
23:41:07 <potty> linuxmodder: go ahead
23:41:18 <linuxmodder> I save mine for opne floor
23:41:23 <potty> If not, then is yn1v
23:41:28 <linuxmodder> its more generic
23:41:34 <yn1v> I have a payoneer card and it is useless
23:41:34 <potty> After him, Kohane
23:41:41 <potty> Then is itamarjp_
23:41:59 <yn1v> I already wrote some lines
23:42:59 <itamarjp_> who is the next ?
23:43:11 <potty> yn1v: EOF?
23:43:13 <echevemaster> linuxmodder: was the next
23:43:16 <yn1v> yes
23:43:21 <potty> Kohane: go ahead
23:43:33 <yn1v> next person in line, please
23:43:34 <Kohane> It's rather a question...
23:43:47 <Kohane> Yeah, yeah, be patient plz!
23:44:16 <Kohane> Aren't any other options aside these ones proposed?
23:44:27 <Kohane> That's my question
23:44:29 <Kohane> EOF
23:44:32 <potty> Kohane: no
23:44:38 <potty> Go ahead, itamarjp_
23:44:59 <Kohane> ok, thanks
23:45:00 <itamarjp_> I don't see RH offices as an option,
23:45:13 <itamarjp_> I made a spreadsheet about reimbursement options,
23:45:16 <Kohane> potty mentioned them
23:45:30 <itamarjp_> I am asking people to help to fill it with correct information.
23:45:36 <itamarjp_> #link https://goo.gl/GbR49q
23:45:47 <itamarjp_> EOF
23:46:16 <echevemaster> ok, please fill the spreadsheet of itamarjp_ , this could help us.
23:46:43 <potty> Thank you itamarjp_
23:46:53 <potty> Do any body got extra ideas?
23:47:04 * alexove need access to se cheatsheet
23:47:11 <itamarjp_> also we have ambassadors from all country's of South America, except 3 ones thats speaks french
23:47:23 <Kohane> Which ones are those?
23:47:30 <echevemaster> potty: ideas here, not will be remembered if anybody do a wiki page with these ones
23:47:39 <itamarjp_> Suriname, and Guianas
23:47:59 <potty> Yes I know echevemaster. My bad for not writing them on the wiki.
23:48:05 <Kohane> Ah! True.  But are them South America or Caribe?
23:48:22 <potty> Kohane: south america. Please focus on the main topic.
23:48:32 <Kohane> ok
23:48:34 <Kohane> sorry
23:48:45 <echevemaster> potty: no problem, usually we don't have time, important is do it :)
23:48:52 <potty> Make it an action
23:49:35 <echevemaster> #action potty will make a wiki page with all the ideas reported by the latam ambassadors about the reimbursement process
23:49:45 <potty> To be sure and action this too...
23:50:25 <Kohane> !
23:50:30 <potty> Do you agree on the proposed approach: 1. Meeting were we teach how to do things 2. Document the process as a BPMN 3. Look for the best reimbursement method 4. Propse to Council
23:50:36 <potty> ?
23:50:42 <potty> Kohane: go ahead
23:50:55 <echevemaster> potty: sounds good
23:51:15 * sr_kraken potty +1
23:51:16 <williamjmorenor> hi
23:51:27 <potty> Hi williamjmorenor
23:51:33 <echevemaster> #action next meeting will be held on Hangout to explain how to do things, (tickets, reports, reimbursement process)
23:51:37 <athos> +1
23:51:43 <williamjmorenor> .fas williamjmorenor
23:51:43 <zodbot> williamjmorenor: williamjmorenor 'William Moreno' <williamjmorenor@gmail.com>
23:51:44 <Kohane> I just found that Payoneer works well in Uruguay.  They request around 30 dollars a year.  But you can use directly without credit cards or bank account
23:51:58 <Kohane> So I see all options as good.
23:52:08 <potty> Good. Thank you.
23:52:24 <echevemaster> yes Kohane, remember those 30 dollars have to be payed by you every year.
23:52:30 <echevemaster> Just to be clear
23:52:37 <Kohane> I just wanted to state that. Because I was a bit of complaining.
23:52:46 <Kohane> Yes, yes, I understand that.
23:52:50 <athos> !
23:52:51 <williamjmorenor> do we really will have meeting vía hangout?
23:53:04 <echevemaster> paid*
23:53:06 <linuxmodder> echevemaster,  again I asked to jus thave mine  pushed to open floor  :)
23:53:16 <potty> williamjmorenor: to explain how to fill tickets, make reports, upload the receipts
23:53:24 <echevemaster> linuxmodder: I know.
23:53:44 <echevemaster> yes williamjmorenor only next meeting
23:53:55 <linuxmodder> potty,  on your  proposal   might  make a  1a .   etherpad or  similiar as a temp doc
23:53:58 <Kohane> I won't be able to do that a saturday night, so you will have to excuse me from hangout
23:54:08 <echevemaster> I will move the next topic.
23:54:16 <echevemaster> #topic Open Floor
23:54:19 <echevemaster> go ahead linuxmodder
23:54:19 <potty> williamjmorenor: meeting is hangout because can be recorded and uploaded
23:54:30 <Kohane> I understand
23:54:37 <Kohane> But it's an internet issue
23:54:56 <Kohane> I haven't wifi on weekend and 3G is useless for videoconferences
23:54:57 <echevemaster> yes, no problem Kohane you can see it after
23:55:02 <Kohane> OK
23:55:06 <Kohane> thank you
23:55:12 <echevemaster> thanks to you.
23:55:17 <linuxmodder> 1) commops  are  looking to get sub projects and fas groups to add join / badge info for respective groups to the etherpad here: https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/commops-power-sessions
23:55:21 <alexove> we can record the meeting and create the wiki page with the bpmn diagrams
23:55:39 <Kohane> What is a BPMN?
23:55:58 <linuxmodder> 2) re: wiki for re-imbursement  consider  the recently  rewritten one for famna as  draft also  feel free to ask us over their in famna to help if needed
23:56:01 <alexove> kohane: Google is your friend :-)
23:56:08 <yn1v> Business process Modeling notation
23:56:16 <Kohane> Ah!
23:56:18 <Kohane> Thanks!
23:56:30 <linuxmodder> Kohane,  the model used in most  'lean startups'
23:56:37 <echevemaster> linuxmodder: thanks for sharing
23:57:00 <potty> linuxmodder: thank you very much!
23:57:13 <linuxmodder> also if any  i18n  folks lingerign  help on  /with edits for the docs for f24  is  appreciated
23:57:17 <linuxmodder> eof
23:57:28 <linuxmodder> unless someone has something for me
23:57:29 <yn1v> it is an over kill, just because it is fashion does not mean is good, it is overly complex.
23:57:41 <linuxmodder> yn1v,  re: ?
23:57:49 <yn1v> we need a flow chart on the wiki, not modeling notation
23:58:00 <echevemaster> yn1v: BPMN is not a fashion
23:58:13 <echevemaster> but yout request is valid
23:58:19 <linuxmodder> don't let 'notation' fool you its a chart
23:58:32 <potty> yn1v: the model is the important thing to do, not the specifics
23:58:46 <echevemaster> a simple graphic could be fine.
23:58:55 <x3mboy> .fas x3mboy
23:58:55 <zodbot> x3mboy: x3mboy 'Eduard Lucena' <eduardlucena@gmail.com>
23:59:05 <alexove> echevemaster: +1
23:59:16 <echevemaster> x3mboy: we're finishing, something to say?
23:59:21 <x3mboy> No
23:59:37 <linuxmodder> !
23:59:44 <potty> linuxmodder: go ahead
23:59:49 <x3mboy> I was out. I'll read the log later
00:00:44 <linuxmodder> any  contributors  looking for  extra work or  outreach  #fedora-diversity is  getting busy in LATAM region  reach out ot tatica or  anyone on the diversity for details
00:01:19 <echevemaster> got it.
00:01:22 <linuxmodder> due to the diversity nature as is in the /topic  umode +g or umode +R is  highly recommended
00:02:07 <linuxmodder> for those unfamiliar with the codes +g  is  all pm msgs not whitelisted are  blocked +r is only Registered users can pm
00:02:29 <linuxmodder> eof
00:02:35 <linuxmodder> really this time :)
00:02:35 <echevemaster> ok, guys, May I finish this meeting?
00:02:45 <linuxmodder> +1
00:02:54 <athos> +1
00:02:57 <potty> +1
00:03:03 <potty> Thank you all
00:03:03 <Kohane> +1
00:03:11 <echevemaster> ok, thanks for attend.
00:03:21 <echevemaster> #endmeeting