14:01:37 <robyduck> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2017-01-25
14:01:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 25 14:01:37 2017 UTC.  The chair is robyduck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:01:37 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:01:37 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2017-01-25'
14:01:47 <robyduck> #meetingname famsco
14:01:47 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
14:01:51 <robyduck> #Roll Call
14:01:58 <robyduck> .hello robyduck
14:01:59 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
14:02:01 <jonatoni> .fas jonatoni
14:02:05 <zodbot> jonatoni: jonatoni 'Jona Azizaj' <jonaazizaj@gmail.com>
14:02:05 <fredlima> .fas fredlima
14:02:10 <zodbot> fredlima: fredlima 'Frederico Henrique Gonçalves Lima' <fred@fredericolima.com.br>
14:02:13 <mailga> .hello mailga
14:02:14 <zodbot> mailga: mailga 'Gabriele Trombini' <g.trombini@gmail.com>
14:02:40 <robyduck> #chair jonatoni fredlima mailga
14:02:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: fredlima jonatoni mailga robyduck
14:03:04 <robyduck> let's wait a bit if anyone else shows up
14:03:17 <bexelbie> .hello bex
14:03:17 <mailga> giannisk sent regrets.
14:03:18 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
14:03:40 <robyduck> .chair bexelbie
14:03:40 <zodbot> bexelbie is seated in a chair with a nice view of a placid lake, unsuspecting that another chair is about to be slammed into them.
14:03:46 <robyduck> ha
14:03:51 <robyduck> #chair bexelbie
14:03:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: bexelbie fredlima jonatoni mailga robyduck
14:05:23 <robyduck> #topic FAmSCo meeting time
14:05:29 * bexelbie does a perfect WWE sell of the hit
14:05:38 <robyduck> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/412
14:06:07 <robyduck> mailga: can you tell us the results?
14:06:14 <Kohane> hi
14:06:18 <Kohane> .fas lailah
14:06:18 <zodbot> Kohane: lailah 'Sylvia Sánchez' <BHKohane@gmail.com>
14:06:32 <robyduck> #chair Kohane
14:06:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kohane bexelbie fredlima jonatoni mailga robyduck
14:06:37 <robyduck> hi Kohane
14:07:06 <Kohane> hi robyduck
14:08:33 * mailga is checking WIS....
14:08:43 <itamarjp> .hello itamarjp
14:08:44 <zodbot> itamarjp: itamarjp 'Itamar Reis Peixoto' <itamar@ispbrasil.com.br>
14:08:57 <robyduck> #chair itamarjp
14:08:57 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kohane bexelbie fredlima itamarjp jonatoni mailga robyduck
14:09:07 <robyduck> hey itamarjp
14:09:59 <itamarjp> hi robyduck,
14:10:15 <mailga> as resuslts the best day for the next meeting is 2017-02-01 at 15,00 UTC, only jonatoni can't attend at that time.
14:10:19 <robyduck> nice we are almost complete again
14:11:02 <Kohane> Good
14:11:12 <robyduck> jonatoni: is this feasible for you anyway or?
14:12:01 * robyduck suggests also considering we are switching to summer time in about 2 months
14:12:02 <mailga> else the days 2017/02/02-03 from 13,00 to 15,00 when both jonatoni and Kohane can't attend.
14:12:08 <mailga> eof
14:12:24 <jonatoni> robyduck it's okay then
14:12:36 <jonatoni> since I'm the only one who can't attend
14:12:37 <robyduck> which means UTC +2 for EMEA folks
14:13:16 <robyduck> jonatoni: great!
14:13:33 <Kohane> jonatoni: what day is better for you?
14:14:13 <jonatoni> Kohane don't worry, we can keep this time as we have
14:14:15 <Kohane> robyduck: it's UTC for me, I'm in UK
14:14:25 <Kohane> jonatoni: oky
14:15:16 <robyduck> jonatoni: actually we have 14 UTC, are you fine switching it back one hour then?
14:15:26 <Kohane> So the next meeting is February 1st at 15:00 UTC. Am I right?
14:16:04 <robyduck> #info FAmSCo meeting time will be wednesday at 15 UTC from now on.
14:16:20 <jonatoni> robyduck 14 UTC works for me
14:16:35 <Kohane> Works for me too, no problem
14:16:36 * bexelbie hopes someone will update fedocal :)
14:16:38 <fredlima> so lets meet 14 utc
14:16:41 <robyduck> #undo
14:16:41 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by robyduck at 14:16:04 : FAmSCo meeting time will be wednesday at 15 UTC from now on.
14:17:29 <robyduck> I'm confused now. mailga, how many people are fine with 14 UTC as now?
14:17:29 * bexelbie will probably miss next week (flying to FOSDEM)
14:18:25 <mailga> robyduck: all the people exept jonatoni can make it at 15,00 on 1st feb.
14:18:33 <bexelbie> I understood that mailga said that everyone except jonatoni could do Wed at 1500.  jonatoni was ok with this.
14:18:49 <mailga> bexelbie: correct.
14:19:07 <robyduck> then let's switch back one hour
14:19:11 <robyduck> #info FAmSCo meeting time will be wednesday at 15 UTC from now on.
14:19:33 <robyduck> #action robyduck to update fedocal for new meeting time
14:19:54 <mailga> robyduck: have you access to fedocal? I have as well.
14:20:12 <robyduck> #info next meeting will be february 1st at 15UTC
14:20:16 <robyduck> mailga: not sure
14:20:30 <robyduck> I hope so, but if you have, please do
14:20:55 <mailga> robyduck: ok.
14:21:22 <robyduck> #topic FAmSCo chair and appointment of vice-chair
14:21:33 <robyduck> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/411
14:22:29 <fredlima> who wanna be vice-chair?
14:22:46 <mailga> fredlima: me not. :D
14:22:46 <robyduck> Thanks for appointing me as chair, I hope I'll make a good job.
14:22:54 <robyduck> fredlima: right
14:23:08 <Kohane> robyduck: you will, no doubt
14:23:30 <robyduck> is there anyone beside giannisk who would like to be vice chair?
14:23:31 <fredlima> robyduck: you are already doing a good job
14:23:49 * robyduck is getting red in face
14:23:49 <mailga> +1 for giannisk
14:24:01 <fredlima> mailga: me neither
14:24:20 <robyduck> ok then
14:24:54 <robyduck> #info giannisk has been appointed as FAmSCo vice-chair
14:25:26 <robyduck> #topic Actions from last meeting: Wiki pages
14:25:43 <robyduck> Kohane: mailga ?
14:25:58 <robyduck> At which point are we with the update?
14:26:05 <mailga> robyduck: Kohane did the job and the mages are updated.
14:26:17 <mailga> s/mages/pages
14:26:26 <Kohane> yes, I updated the wiki
14:26:45 <robyduck> cool, thanks Kohane :)
14:27:05 <robyduck> #topic Plans to migrate the FAmSCo Trac to pagure
14:27:22 <itamarjp> I have invited athos_badConxn, he and jflory7 helped us to migrate latam track to pagure,
14:27:36 <robyduck> As you probably know, Infra will close fedorahosted.org by february 28th
14:27:42 * mailga thinks this is a task for super-robyduck....
14:27:54 <robyduck> itamarjp: ok, thanks, I did the same for the websites trac
14:27:55 <linuxmodder> .fas linuxmodder
14:27:56 <zodbot> linuxmodder: linuxmodder 'Corey W Sheldon' <sheldon.corey@openmailbox.org>
14:28:07 <Kohane> robyduck: I knew but forgot. Thanks for the reminder.
14:28:40 <robyduck> this is rather technical here, because the FAmSCo trac works slightly different to all others
14:28:41 <fredlima> robyduck: athoscr can assist you IF you need.
14:28:51 <Kohane> itamarjp: how it was the migration so far?
14:28:53 <robyduck> fredlima: cool
14:29:13 <itamarjp> robyduck, I think the recommended is to migrate as soon as possible.
14:29:17 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  I'll be taking notes as freemedia is in much the same boat
14:29:28 <robyduck> so, just a small background
14:29:47 <robyduck> FAmSCo trac is for FAS accounts only accessible
14:29:51 <linuxmodder> same here I'm game to help robyduck
14:29:58 * robyduck opens the trac
14:30:26 <robyduck> also, we have CC defaults and tickets per user
14:31:17 <robyduck> these are report_view and ticket_view_self fro those looking
14:31:45 * athoscr listening and available to help with migrations :)
14:31:49 <robyduck> pagure actually is not able to handle the report_view permissions
14:31:54 * bexelbie is not aware of pagure having the ability to limit tickets by FAS ... do we know if this is possible?
14:32:13 <bexelbie> could we solve this with private tickets where needed?
14:32:24 <robyduck> pagure, however is able to handle tickets by FAS, because it has private tickets
14:32:34 <robyduck> bexelbie: correct
14:33:28 <linuxmodder> there was talk of integrating that I thought when famna did theirs
14:33:40 <robyduck> so, for what my personal opinion is: I would like to make our work as transparent as possible, but I understand that some tickets have sensitive informations
14:34:16 <Kohane> yes
14:34:18 <linuxmodder> iirc famna made it  'admins and shippers only' for private tickets
14:34:23 <robyduck> therefor it would be the best to keep the old sensistive tickets closed, and start a new trac on pagure, using private tickets wherever this is necessay
14:34:53 <robyduck> the old DB dump will be archieved somewhere by Infra and made accessible for the trac admins
14:35:15 * robyduck actually is one of the trac admins, so if necessary we will have access to old tickets
14:35:29 <robyduck> furthermore, we have just 2-3 active tickets actually
14:35:56 <robyduck> my proposal is: close the old one, and start a new trac on pagure.
14:36:15 <robyduck> other ideas?
14:36:35 <Kohane> No, I think closing the old one as you say is the best.
14:37:02 <linuxmodder> seems safest / sanest to me
14:37:03 <mailga> no ideas at all
14:37:04 <robyduck> I'm not sure we can cleanly migrate the trac, because we will loose the permissions we have for older tickets (which would become public)
14:37:32 <linuxmodder> infra could make those RO no robyduck ?
14:37:35 <linuxmodder> the old ones
14:37:52 <robyduck> linuxmodder: no, Infra will just keep the database dumps
14:37:59 <linuxmodder> ah
14:38:04 <robyduck> they will kick the whole server
14:38:22 <linuxmodder> kick the whole server?
14:38:26 <robyduck> they will make the DB dumps accessible to the trac admins
14:38:30 <mailga> robyduck: I'm not comfortable to have old tickets public.
14:38:43 <robyduck> linuxmodder: yes, drop anything
14:38:49 <linuxmodder> got it
14:39:17 <robyduck> mailga: that's why I would tend to close the trac and start a new one. I know this is a compromise.
14:39:34 <mailga> robyduck: absolutely +1
14:39:36 <Kohane> Yes, but it's a good compromise from my point of view.
14:39:55 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  assuming someone not an admin wanted to see some older ones who would that work tho?
14:40:09 <linuxmodder> an issue ticket and case by case from an admin?
14:40:27 <robyduck> and we don't need to make a migration at all, just set up the new pagure trac :)
14:40:39 <robyduck> linuxmodder: yes
14:40:49 <robyduck> I don't see any other way
14:41:05 <robyduck> but we will have another problem then
14:41:14 <Kohane> Yes? Which one?
14:41:28 <robyduck> let's assume we start a new trac, how do we want people to open tickets?
14:41:43 <robyduck> private? public? Who cares about that?
14:42:18 <Kohane> Public means everyone, even without FAS can see it?
14:42:30 <robyduck> Kohane: correct
14:42:31 <linuxmodder> public default with option to make private ( cc or address info are auto private? )
14:42:50 <mailga> robyduck: private default, then we decide to make it public, if FAmSCo wants.
14:43:06 <fredlima> robyduck: public with fas isn't a option?
14:43:12 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  is there not a way to make public group members only ? adding fas only to the 'group members' ?
14:43:31 <robyduck> fredlima: no, pagure cannot handle that
14:43:47 <robyduck> linuxmodder: yes, but you have to add all FAS accounts to the group then
14:43:53 <linuxmodder> well then I'm +1 private like mailga  said
14:44:20 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  how costly would that be time and db wise?
14:44:42 <robyduck> linuxmodder: no idea
14:45:07 <Kohane> yes, I guess we have no other option but private
14:45:19 <Kohane> public is too... public, hehe
14:45:31 <fredlima> Kohane: agreed
14:46:18 <linuxmodder> I'd say it moment we default to private and see if we can get numbers on cost for  going fas accounts > group and then go public iwth fas
14:46:24 <robyduck> we can always change the setup once pagure implements new features
14:46:36 <Kohane> yes, that's true
14:48:06 <robyduck> proposal: close the old trac and start a new one, setting pagure to private tickets as default for new issues. FAmSCo will set them eventually as publci, if there is no sensistive data inside.
14:48:24 <robyduck> can we vote about this?
14:48:40 <mailga> lets vote!
14:49:07 <robyduck> +1
14:49:27 <linuxmodder> +1
14:49:32 <fredlima> +1
14:49:34 <jonatoni> +1
14:49:42 <Kohane> +1
14:49:49 <mailga> +1
14:50:00 <itamarjp> no migration of the old data ?
14:50:11 <linuxmodder> but i'd really like to check out the tech debt of a fas only  option
14:50:19 <robyduck> itamarjp: no, just keep the DB dumps
14:50:20 <linuxmodder> itamarjp,  db dumps for admins
14:50:36 <fredlima> itamarjp: and make new tickets private
14:50:49 <itamarjp> -1, I think its important to have the old data migrated,
14:51:04 <robyduck> linuxmodder: I can mark an action to you if you like
14:51:39 <linuxmodder> itamarjp,  the issue is that presently there is no implement to preserve private nature of tickets in old db that need it
14:51:44 <linuxmodder> if we do that
14:51:47 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  sure
14:51:51 <Kohane> itamarjp: Can I ask you why do you think is important to migrate old data?
14:52:03 <robyduck> #info FAmSCo will close the old trac and start a new one, setting pagure to private tickets as default for new issues. FAmSCo will set them eventually as publci, if there is no sensistive data inside.
14:52:34 <itamarjp> Kohane, because I will loose the history,
14:52:44 <robyduck> #action linuxmodder investigating with Infra if there are any options to have a trac on pagure for FAS only
14:52:54 <mailga> robyduck: undo please, itamarjp has doubts about it.
14:53:22 <robyduck> mailga: we have 5 +1s
14:54:14 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  in theory if a fas only option is possible and not too costly could we not set the old stuff to fas and make it a semi happy compromise?
14:54:18 <robyduck> itamarjp: I'm fine with your concern, but the migration would set tickets with sensisble data as public for everyone
14:54:32 <mailga> robyduck: yes, I know, but itamarjp needs more clarificatios.
14:54:39 <fredlima> I voted +1 to make the tickets private, not to don't migrate from fedhosted do pagure
14:55:00 <fredlima> this migration can be important in the future
14:55:47 <linuxmodder> the data is not going anywhere its jsut gonna be public as I understand it itamarjp
14:56:00 <robyduck> linuxmodder: in theory yes, not sure if it is possible though
14:56:01 <linuxmodder> not *
14:56:19 <linuxmodder> I'll probe with infra then and see
14:56:19 <Kohane> fredlima: the idea is to keep the DB dump and start a new trac on Pagure.
14:56:24 <itamarjp> lets file a ticket and ask if its possible to mark old ticket as private,
14:56:42 <robyduck> so, do we want to wait until next meeting and see if linuxmodder has new info about the migration?
14:56:50 <linuxmodder> itamarjp,  assuming the tech debt is not too high and a fas only is possible would that be a happy middle ground for you?
14:56:53 <fredlima> Kohane: yes, but the dump will not be visible to us easily
14:57:19 * mailga thinks we should skip the topic till the next meeting, we're running out of time.
14:57:30 <Kohane> fredlima: Will be for the admins, as I understand it.
14:57:36 * fredlima agreed with mailga and robyduck
14:57:48 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  if so what perms and settings would you invision for the old stuff ? ( fas acount that is  +1/+2 or soemthing else)?
14:57:57 <fredlima> Kohane: we aren't admins
14:58:09 * Kohane agrees to skip the topic until next meeting
14:58:11 <fredlima> that's the point
14:58:19 <Kohane> fredlima: robyduck is
14:58:45 <linuxmodder> and robyduck  is accountable to all of us as members :)
14:58:53 <robyduck> #info Freeze the decision about the FAmSCo trac until next week and consider better options if available
14:58:57 <linuxmodder> as we are to him and the rest of the team
14:59:04 <fredlima> yes, but everybody will have to file a ticket for some admin to see some ticket we don't know how to find
14:59:12 <fredlima> it will not be easy
14:59:23 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  if so what perms and settings would you invision for the old stuff ? ( fas acount that is  +1/+2 or soemthing else)?
15:00:08 <robyduck> linuxmodder: we are speaking about the report_view permission in the old trac
15:00:39 <linuxmodder> yeah how would you envision the pagure side  for a possible fas only group for that
15:01:10 <linuxmodder> MUST be  cla+? or some particular  groups ?
15:01:15 <robyduck> interesting question
15:01:23 <robyduck> no, just a FAS account
15:01:35 <robyduck> you have to be authenticated
15:01:46 <Kohane> That's fine for me.
15:01:47 <linuxmodder> then the issue of spammers comes back ( spam fas accoutns)
15:01:58 <robyduck> I don't have an answer how to solve that actually in pagure
15:02:23 <linuxmodder> so just FAS auth for the moment ?  any other objections from the team
15:02:35 <robyduck> private means, only people that are either 1. admin in the project, 2. assignee, 3. reporter, or 4. watcher to the issue can see them
15:02:54 <linuxmodder> and watcher would require fas no?
15:02:56 <robyduck> and they don't show up even in the list
15:03:02 <robyduck> yes
15:03:18 <robyduck> linuxmodder: we can talk about it also later
15:03:25 <linuxmodder> so in all honesty we need a fas ( no private then)
15:03:34 <robyduck> do we have anything else urgent?
15:03:40 <linuxmodder> on the ML for sure I'll draft soemthing today
15:03:46 <fredlima> linuxmodder: public to fas auth will be the best option, but robyduck says it's not possible at the moment
15:03:55 * robyduck is going to close the meeting
15:04:09 <fredlima> linuxmodder: would be*
15:04:35 <linuxmodder> look for cross post on ML with infra and commops for ideas and pointer in the next 24 hours
15:05:03 <robyduck> see you all next week then, thanks for coming, let's try to keep presence high like our first two meetings :)
15:05:07 <Kohane> robyduck: nothing urgent from side.
15:05:20 <fredlima> robyduck: thanks again.
15:05:32 <robyduck> #endmeeting