15:02:30 <robyduck> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2017-02-15
15:02:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 15 15:02:30 2017 UTC.  The chair is robyduck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2017-02-15'
15:02:38 <robyduck> .meetingname famsco
15:02:59 <Kohane> .fas lailah
15:03:00 <zodbot> Kohane: lailah 'Sylvia Sánchez' <BHKohane@gmail.com>
15:03:06 <jonatoni> .fas jonatoni
15:03:07 <robyduck> #meetingname famsco
15:03:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
15:03:07 <zodbot> jonatoni: jonatoni 'Jona Azizaj' <jonaazizaj@gmail.com>
15:03:21 <robyduck> .hello robyduck
15:03:22 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
15:03:42 <robyduck> #chair jonatoni Kohane mailga fredlima itamarjp
15:03:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kohane fredlima itamarjp jonatoni mailga robyduck
15:04:06 <robyduck> welcome
15:04:10 <fredlima> .fas fredlima
15:04:10 <zodbot> fredlima: fredlima 'Frederico Henrique Gonçalves Lima' <fred@fredericolima.com.br>
15:04:40 <robyduck> agenda is rather full today, let's start with an announcement
15:04:47 <Kohane> ok
15:04:50 <robyduck> #topic FAmSCo term
15:05:43 <robyduck> During the Council meeting one hour ago we decided to apply the existing rule for special election cases (like this one) to all elections
15:05:47 <robyduck> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules#Seats_on_FAmSCo
15:06:07 <robyduck> This applies also to the actual FAmSCo
15:06:33 <robyduck> it is just about serving for one or two release cycles, nothing prevents recandidating
15:07:25 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  follow on mtg ?
15:07:27 * mailga on the phone. Following.
15:07:31 <robyduck> This is one of those clarifications we will make to our rules. From now on we will make them by our own ;)
15:07:45 * linuxmodder here
15:08:12 <robyduck> anything you want to add?
15:09:23 <Kohane> Yes, I'd like to ask something for the sake of clarification
15:09:38 <Kohane> for the sake of clarity, I mean
15:09:43 <robyduck> does anyone want to update the term for the actual FAmSCo members in our wiki?
15:09:49 <robyduck> Kohane: please do
15:11:09 <Kohane> In the Seats on FAmSCo section says  "the 4 highest vote-getters will serve two releases, the lowest 3 vote-getters will serve 1 release. After that, the seats up for election will alternate based on the seats up for election in the prior election."  but some paragraphs below it says  "Members of FAmSCo are elected for a term of two (2) major releases of Fedora. However, a FAmSCo member may resign his/her seat at
15:11:09 <Kohane> any time for any reason by notifying the rest of the committee as well as the Fedora Ambassadors community of their decision."
15:11:38 <robyduck> yes
15:11:53 <robyduck> what's the question?
15:12:28 <Kohane> The paragraph suggests that all members are elected for two major releases. but the first one says that that some will serve only one release.
15:12:32 <robyduck> the first paragraph says: "When for whatever reason all seats are up for election..."
15:12:53 <robyduck> Kohane: no, normally we have 3 or 4 members that end their term
15:12:56 <giannisk> .fas giannisk
15:12:56 <zodbot> giannisk: giannisk 'Giannis Konstantinidis' <giannis@konstantinidis.cc>
15:13:04 * giannisk waves at everyone.
15:13:14 * Kohane waves giannisk
15:13:19 <robyduck> it is a special case all members of the previous FAmSCo were re-elected
15:13:27 <Kohane> Oh....
15:13:28 <robyduck> #chair giannisk
15:13:28 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kohane fredlima giannisk itamarjp jonatoni mailga robyduck
15:13:33 * fredlima waves to all
15:13:41 <Kohane> Okay, was a problem of language.
15:14:10 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  something was brought up offline -- what  mins for community and or a forced +1 cmmunity member is there gonna be
15:14:34 * Kohane waves back to fredlina
15:14:39 <robyduck> linuxmodder: can you rephrase?
15:14:41 <linuxmodder> if community member is absent the perception could be /  would be that the community is being overridden / ignored
15:15:21 <robyduck> linuxmodder: we are just talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules#Seats_on_FAmSCo
15:15:24 <robyduck> nothing else
15:15:57 <Kohane> robyduck:  it was a language/grammar problem then, I understood it in a different way. Thanks for explaining it.
15:16:32 <linuxmodder> again that DOES NOT address that case
15:16:45 <robyduck> #action robyduck will update the FAmSCo page with the release term for each member
15:17:20 <linuxmodder> being an ambassador is not enough im my opinion we could have a markdude case usign that as written ( for however you love/hate him he is a great case study)
15:17:57 <robyduck> linuxmodder: love/hate? Should I?
15:18:24 <robyduck> linuxmodder: what are you talking about?
15:18:47 <jonatoni> linuxmodder: sorry but I don't get your point
15:18:50 <linuxmodder> also there is NO mention of whether that person MUST be a full / campus  ambassador or have soem minimal time on project / event participation ( again a ersume only  title grabber)
15:19:35 <Kohane> Me neither....
15:19:39 <linuxmodder> at risk of hurting feelings that IS WAY TOO VAGUE and open to abuse
15:19:45 <giannisk> Folks, what are we talking about?
15:19:47 <robyduck> linuxmodder: we are talking about the term of FAmSCo members, what are you saying here is off topic.
15:20:06 <robyduck> moving on
15:20:06 <gnokii_> linuxmodder: I assume markdude has a longer time as you have
15:20:14 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  FamsCO_election_rules addresses that but whatever
15:20:33 <giannisk> Our commission normally expires at F27, are there any issues?
15:20:39 <Kohane> Can we focus on this topic, please?
15:20:57 <robyduck> giannisk: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules#Seats_on_FAmSCo
15:21:35 <robyduck> but I cannot repeat all the stuff 3 times
15:21:53 <linuxmodder> so electing folks that are hardly qualified is not as important as how long they will/can be there ok whatevdr
15:21:59 <giannisk> We did not enforce that rule with the previous committee.
15:22:24 <robyduck> giannisk: Council just clarified this paragraph applying to all elections where we elect the full body and not, as usual 3 or 4 members.
15:22:32 <Kohane> linuxmodder: we're discussing a different thing.
15:22:34 <gnokii_> haha you can be damn sure I come in 5 month and get elected
15:23:36 <robyduck> giannisk: it is a clarification of a rule we already had
15:23:41 <linuxmodder> again ignore me and deal with the can of worms later have fun
15:23:56 <robyduck> there is nothig to enforce really
15:24:58 <robyduck> can we move on?
15:25:07 <jonatoni> yes please
15:25:10 <giannisk> robyduck: we sure can, +1
15:25:11 <Kohane> yes
15:25:16 <robyduck> #topic Fill vacant FAmSCo seat
15:25:55 <robyduck> ok so, we have just 3 nomination, my candidate didn't even reply, so we have: mitzie, gnokii and fredlima
15:26:32 <robyduck> I'd like to requalify we need to clarify this rule and make it more simple
15:26:48 <fredlima> C/n
15:26:54 <gnokii_> !
15:27:02 <Kohane> Can I ask who was your candidate, robyduck? Just for curiosity.
15:27:04 <robyduck> actually it permits too many interpretations, but on the other hand I don't like to overrule our community
15:27:14 <Kohane> robyduck: agree
15:27:41 <robyduck> Kohane: that doesn't count here now
15:27:50 <Kohane> yes, sure
15:28:05 <robyduck> fredlima: did you want to say anything?
15:28:15 <linuxmodder> that is what I was getting but screw it noone seems to care what I'm saying
15:29:00 <robyduck> linuxmodder: you need to be on topic, we had another topic before
15:29:10 <fredlima> robyduck: Just to show that I'm already started my mentor process, https://fedorahosted.org/fama/ticket/2197
15:29:24 <robyduck> please respect that
15:29:38 <gnokii_> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:29:39 <linuxmodder> no offense fredlima  but still in the menotr process is a bit green for my tastes
15:29:55 <robyduck> fredlima: fine, but it is not important for the actual issue
15:30:09 <robyduck> gnokii_: I saw you, your turn now
15:30:17 <itamarjp> linuxmodder, fredlima has the same age of kohane in Fedora
15:30:38 <Kohane> I didn't know age was important here....
15:30:46 <robyduck> me neither
15:30:46 <mrunge> both are quite young in the project
15:31:01 <mrunge> but age is not a requirement
15:31:02 <linuxmodder> itamarjp,  again no offense to anyone I'm 2 years + on project and would not nominate myself
15:31:21 <linuxmodder> it should be a minimal consideration
15:31:29 <itamarjp> linuxmodder, when you feel ready do it,
15:31:31 <gnokii_> if you live in a country which has a law that says you allowed to drink alcohol with 21 and yo walk in a bar where noe sign hangs that you are allowed to drink with 21 will you get a beer? So therefore in the replacment rules must not be stated ambassador nothing unclear
15:31:33 <gnokii_> eof
15:31:40 <linuxmodder> too green is a bad thing ( although fresh blood is always good to have)
15:31:50 <giannisk> Guys, I don't want to pour too much cold water on your feet, but this is a FAmSCo meeting.
15:31:57 <giannisk> It's not a public forum.
15:32:03 * robyduck phone
15:32:05 <giannisk> Please respect the guidelines and stay on topic.
15:32:10 <mrunge> giannisk, remind me, why this is not public?
15:32:22 <giannisk> If you have any misc suggestion, there's open floor.
15:32:27 <Kohane> mrunge: He already said it.
15:32:35 <giannisk> mrunge: Being public doesn't mean it can be flooded with off-topic messages.
15:32:37 <linuxmodder> so steering this and the project under its pervy is off topic
15:33:11 <Kohane> This is getting a bit off hand. Can we get back to the topic, please?
15:33:13 <mrunge> giannisk, then it was just poor wording from your side
15:33:46 * robyduck reads backlog
15:33:52 <Kohane> I found giannisk wording perfect. Let's stay on topic.
15:34:04 <linuxmodder> how to fill a vacant seat is topical here but old dog logic seems to prevail
15:34:22 <mrunge> +1 for on topic, and public != open floor
15:34:22 <fredlima> giannisk: agreed
15:34:24 <robyduck> please, let's keep the discussion here topic related, we are going to apply this rule:
15:34:28 <robyduck> If those candidates have been exhausted or FAmSCo does not consider them eligible, FAmSCo will ask Fedora community members that they think would do a good job if they would be willing to hold the open seats.
15:34:34 <linuxmodder> lack of a solid plan and reqs  prior to next election is bad idea and bad practivce
15:34:49 <nb> wait, fredlima is getting removed?
15:34:55 <robyduck> that's all we have, and we can rephrase that afterwards, clarify it, whatever
15:35:05 * nb reads scrollback
15:35:10 <linuxmodder> why punt it dael with it now robyduck
15:35:21 <linuxmodder> clarify NOW not next release
15:35:23 <robyduck> but now we have this rule, which doesn't say anything about being in a group or not, nothing about age or anything like that
15:35:56 <gnokii_> robyduck: again you go to a bar do you get beer with other words if there is a rule you only can be elected into it with the status its the same, you dont get beer until 21
15:35:57 <robyduck> linuxmodder: we cannot change a rule while we are in an issue, that's how it works
15:36:17 <itamarjp> robyduck, there are other candidates that has never been member of famsco on the list
15:36:19 <giannisk> gnokii_: We're an open source community, not a pub.
15:36:58 <itamarjp> so theres no exhausted list
15:36:59 * nb does not understand why fredlima is not an ambassador yet, it appears he has done enough
15:37:18 <nb> so if he became an ambassador, the issue would be mute now
15:37:19 <robyduck> please if we don't keep a on-topic discussion we can move that to the trac and count votes there
15:37:23 <nb> s/mute/moot/
15:37:25 <robyduck> I hope we can discuss it normally
15:37:29 <gnokii_> giannisk: you should apply off-topic to yourself
15:37:55 <robyduck> nb: correct, but that's the situation right now
15:37:56 <giannisk> gnokii_: You should apply cold water to burnt area.
15:38:22 <robyduck> giannisk: gnokii_ please stop that
15:38:24 <Kohane> nb: Because fredlima only pinged Brazilian mentors who doesn't seem to be active. But there other mentors in LATAM.
15:38:27 <gnokii_> giannisk: and you should shut your mouth
15:38:32 <nb> robyduck, is there any rule that says I cannot sponsor people into ambassador group from outside my region?
15:39:00 <robyduck> nb: no
15:39:02 <itamarjp> nb, theres no rule, but theres a case between tatica and kushal das,
15:39:07 <mailga> nb: the question is exacly that. He couldn't been nominated for a seat. At the moment we don't have to find the mistake, that's it.
15:39:29 <gnokii_> yes as we have for india a special rule
15:39:48 <nb> .fasinfo fredlima
15:39:49 <zodbot> nb: User: fredlima, Name: Frederico Henrique Gonçalves Lima, email: fred@fredericolima.com.br, Creation: 2016-06-08, IRC Nick: fredlima, Timezone: America/Sao_Paulo, Locale: pt_BR, GPG key ID: ED8FD974, Status: active
15:39:52 <zodbot> nb: Approved Groups: ambassadors fedora-br famsco fedorabugs packager freemedia cvsl10n cla_done cla_fpca
15:39:56 <fredlima> nb: I didn't know that, I the only country in latam speaiking brazilian portuguese ir Brazil, and here only one mentor in Brazil, an its gone
15:39:58 <itamarjp> we should call the next candidated that has never been member of famsco
15:39:59 <nb> fredlima is now an ambassador.  problem solved.
15:40:07 <itamarjp> nb++
15:40:07 <zodbot> itamarjp: Karma for nb changed to 8 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:40:13 <gnokii_> ok, violation
15:40:13 <robyduck> gnokii_: please control your words here
15:40:28 <robyduck> nb: fredlima has a mentor actually, you should not do that
15:40:31 <gnokii_> me has nothing to control control somebody else
15:40:34 * giannisk chuckles at gnokii_
15:40:48 <itamarjp> mribeirodantas has never been as member of famsco in the case we move to next candidate.
15:41:15 <Kohane> itamarjp: what mribeirodantas has to do with this?
15:41:46 <itamarjp> a seat will be offered to next candidate that has never been of famsco
15:41:59 <Kohane> I didn't see that.
15:41:59 <robyduck> ok, I'm stopping this discussion now. We will vote on trac.
15:42:06 <itamarjp> kohane in this case he is the next one that has never been member of famsco
15:42:18 <nb> robyduck, but now there is not an issue, since fredlima is ambassador now
15:42:22 <Kohane> No. There are three candidates including fredlima.
15:42:31 <Kohane> We should vote for one of them.
15:42:34 <fredlima> robyduck: the voted already happen, 3+ for me
15:42:35 <robyduck> #info Voting for filling the vacant FAmSCo seat has been moved to trac
15:42:42 <gnokii_> nb the american way of democracy?
15:42:48 <robyduck> #action robyduck will call for votes on trac
15:42:58 <Kohane> fredlima: when that vote happened?
15:43:13 <robyduck> nb: there was no problem anyway, we have to apply the rules
15:43:25 <fredlima> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/418
15:43:46 <robyduck> ok moving on
15:43:49 <itamarjp> rule 1 from famsco
15:43:50 <itamarjp> If there are runner-up candidates from the previous election that did not have the opportunity to be on FAmSCo, they will be considered and offered a seat.
15:43:54 <itamarjp> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_election_rules#Filling_Vacant_Seats
15:44:08 <robyduck> itamarjp: stop please
15:44:09 <itamarjp> mribeirodantas has never been on famsco
15:44:13 <fredlima> giannisk, jonatoni, itamarjp +3 for me
15:44:25 <Kohane> itamarjp: it doesn't work that way
15:44:28 <gnokii_> itamarjp: the opportunity means there not, he never served
15:44:50 <robyduck> #topic Move FAmSCo Trac to pagure
15:45:06 <nb> but now fredlima is ambassador, so he is eligible to have a seat
15:45:07 <robyduck> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/413
15:45:25 <robyduck> this is rather important now
15:45:38 <robyduck> test instance is: https://stg.pagure.io/famsco-test
15:46:20 <robyduck> all tickets are set to private, jflory7 volunteered to sort them out an keep only tickets as private which has sensitive data inside
15:47:02 <robyduck> all FAmSCo members have access to the stg instance, please have a look and let us know your feedback
15:47:14 <robyduck> personally I think this is the best option we can have
15:47:26 <Kohane> robyduck: agree
15:47:33 <Kohane> I quite like it
15:47:42 <robyduck> in the near future pagure will probably be able to sync out with FAS accounts, that would solve it
15:47:50 <nb> why is famsco voting for someone to fill an alleged vacant seat? I see no record of any decision yet saying that the seat is vacant
15:48:17 * giannisk will have a detailed look later this date and comment on the trac ticket.
15:48:21 <robyduck> nb: if you like I can resume that for you later
15:48:30 <nb> it seems like in the famsco ticket, more people say to just leave it the way it is
15:48:31 <robyduck> giannisk: ok fine
15:49:02 <robyduck> nb: but he was not eligible in january
15:49:29 <robyduck> anyway, I would appreciate your comments in the ticket and move it to production ASAP
15:49:52 <fredlima> nb++
15:49:52 <zodbot> fredlima: Karma for nb changed to 9 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:50:17 <nb> robyduck, but he is eligible now, so fill his seat with himself.  Yes, he should not have been able to run in January
15:50:28 <nb> but no one apparently noticed that then, so what's done is done
15:50:40 <nb> and IMHO he should have been sponsored already anyway
15:50:52 <robyduck> that's exactly the point, you cannot change a rule post elections :)
15:51:07 <robyduck> but anyway, we are on another topic now
15:51:26 <Southern_Gentlem> robyduck,  and it appears the committee did not think it was a issue to check the candidates for that election either
15:51:44 <robyduck> #action all FAmSCo member give feedback to the trac2pagure migration ASAP
15:51:55 <nb> robyduck, you can't change the results of an election either.  FAmSCo should have checked the candidates before having the election
15:52:08 <Southern_Gentlem> robyduck,  removing someone elected by the community, set aworse presidence in the long run
15:52:13 <nb> Southern_Gentlem++
15:52:15 <robyduck> Southern_Gentlem: it'S not up to the committee
15:52:17 <zodbot> nb: Karma for jbwillia changed to 9 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:52:24 <nb> robyduck, council said it was, iirc
15:52:29 <fredlima> Southern_Gentlem++
15:52:30 <zodbot> fredlima: Karma for jbwillia changed to 10 (for the f25 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:52:56 <Kohane> Are we still discussing the same?
15:53:05 <Kohane> I thought we were talking about Pagure
15:53:12 <Southern_Gentlem> sorry
15:53:13 <robyduck> yes pagure
15:53:42 <itamarjp> I cant see old tickets in famsco-test
15:53:54 <robyduck> anyone: refrain from writing off topic comments, we are in a meeting here
15:54:01 <mailga> nb: probably fredlima would be elected again if you followed the discussion, sorry.
15:54:08 <robyduck> itamarjp: you have to login
15:54:12 <nb> mailga, oh?
15:54:22 <nb> good
15:54:31 <itamarjp> robyduck, :-) sorry man
15:54:35 <Kohane> Folks, can we focus on the topic?
15:55:10 * robyduck already set an action to that
15:55:13 <itamarjp> looks good for me.
15:55:17 <robyduck> last 5 minutes
15:55:18 <Kohane> itamarjp: I can't see old tickets either but I think is intended.
15:55:30 <fredlima> giannisk, jonatoni and itamarjp nominated me. its done, I'm back to fasmco. Or not?
15:55:42 <robyduck> #topic FAmA
15:55:43 <fredlima> https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/418
15:55:49 <gnokii_> fredlima: no you are not
15:55:51 <Kohane> fredlima: we're talking about something else
15:56:02 <linuxmodder> last i checked topic changes were group thing NOT the sole chair with all respect  robyduck
15:56:36 <Kohane> Folks! By the last time! Stay on topic, please
15:56:50 <robyduck> I reached out to FAmA, because we want also to reorganize the mentoring. So starting from there was quite obvious.
15:57:18 <Kohane> Yes? Any results?
15:57:23 <robyduck> linuxmodder: we have just comments off topic here, the last topic was done
15:57:50 <Kohane> robyduck: Did FAmA say anything?
15:58:11 <robyduck> Yes, finding a new FAmA is probably a good moment now, and we need to migrate even the FAmA trac to pagure
15:58:32 <Kohane> I thought they already migrated....
15:58:49 <linuxmodder> fama or famna ? if the later they are already
15:59:02 <robyduck> I can do that at interim and then we can find a new FAmA when we have more time
15:59:04 <linuxmodder> and were the first to do so
15:59:13 <Kohane> Ah, FAmA, okay
16:00:40 <robyduck> linuxmodder: I don't understand why you want to interfere in this meeting with nonsense, I think I always wrote FAmA
16:00:42 <linuxmodder> robyduck,  what ML I never remember seeing jack on famna about fama re-ora
16:00:45 <Kohane> robyduck:  So we should find a new FAmA and then migrate. Any procedure to follow on this? Do you have a link or something where we can look at?
16:01:06 <robyduck> Kohane: no, we don't have the time to find before migrating
16:01:41 <Kohane> So, we're migrating and afterwards we'll see what to do about the new FAmA....
16:01:48 <robyduck> I have looked at the trac and can migrate it too, just because we are very near to the deadline
16:02:03 <Kohane> Let's do so then
16:02:05 <robyduck> yes Kohane that would be my option here
16:02:21 <Kohane> Nice.
16:02:23 <robyduck> I would open a ticket for that too and talk about it off-meeting
16:02:37 * giannisk notices we're running late.
16:02:40 <Kohane> Yes, I think that makes sense.
16:02:44 <robyduck> we run out of time for today
16:02:57 <robyduck> ha, giannisk thanks
16:03:15 <Kohane> robyduck: we ran out of time yet again :-/
16:03:23 <robyduck> btw, I will not be around next wednesday
16:03:34 <robyduck> giannisk: can you run the meeting?
16:03:42 <giannisk> robyduck: yes sure
16:03:48 <robyduck> cool
16:04:06 <robyduck> for anything else, please move it to the trac
16:04:12 <robyduck> see you all soon
16:04:13 * Kohane thinks robyduck needs holidays :)
16:04:28 <robyduck> #endmeeting