15:02:24 <robyduck> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2017-03-22
15:02:24 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 22 15:02:24 2017 UTC.  The chair is robyduck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:02:24 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:02:24 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2017-03-22'
15:02:28 <robyduck> #meetingname famsco
15:02:28 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
15:02:32 <robyduck> #topic Roll Call
15:02:41 <robyduck> .hello robyduck
15:02:41 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
15:02:46 <itamarjp> .hello itamarjp
15:02:47 <zodbot> itamarjp: itamarjp 'Itamar Reis Peixoto' <itamar@ispbrasil.com.br>
15:03:10 <fredlima> .fas fredlima
15:03:11 <zodbot> fredlima: fredlima 'Frederico Henrique Gonçalves Lima' <fred@fredericolima.com.br>
15:03:25 <mailga> .hello mailga
15:03:26 <zodbot> mailga: mailga 'Gabriele Trombini' <g.trombini@gmail.com>
15:03:32 <robyduck> #chair itamarjp fredlima jonatoni mailga
15:03:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: fredlima itamarjp jonatoni mailga robyduck
15:03:37 <jonatoni> .fas jonatoni
15:03:38 <zodbot> jonatoni: jonatoni 'Jona Azizaj' <jonaazizaj@gmail.com>
15:03:55 <robyduck> welcome all
15:04:03 <mailga> hi all
15:04:25 <jonatoni> Hi :)
15:05:10 <robyduck> let's start, other can join later.
15:05:16 <robyduck> #topic Updates for ambassador's status
15:05:40 <robyduck> this is https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/417
15:06:04 <robyduck> jonatoni: can you give us an update at which point we are with that?
15:06:31 <robyduck> brb
15:06:51 <jonatoni> Robyduck helped me identify FAS accounts that had been inactive for more than the last 18 months
15:06:57 <Kohane> Hi!
15:07:01 <Kohane> .fas lailah
15:07:02 <jonatoni> and I send an email to all of them
15:07:03 <zodbot> Kohane: lailah 'Sylvia Sánchez' <BHKohane@gmail.com>
15:07:31 <Kohane> jonatoni: any answers?
15:07:40 <jonatoni> if they want to remain Ambassadors and not be listed as inactive they just need to login to their accounts
15:07:52 <jonatoni> after 2 weeks we will run again the script
15:08:16 <jonatoni> Kohane only one, that said he will not be active because of some personal issues
15:08:30 <Kohane> Oh.
15:08:42 <Kohane> It's not much... :-/
15:08:48 <jonatoni> those ambassadors they will be listed as inactive, after 6 month they will be removed
15:09:09 <jonatoni> all this details I have included at the email that I send to them
15:09:16 <jonatoni> eof
15:09:44 <robyduck> jonatoni: cool, thanks. When did you send out the mail?
15:09:50 <fredlima> thanks jonatoni
15:09:52 <jonatoni> on monday
15:10:11 <Kohane> Ah, well, there's still time.
15:10:22 <robyduck> ok
15:10:29 <robyduck> Kohane: time?
15:11:14 <Kohane> Because she said only one replied. But if it was on Monday it may happen that many of them didn't read or had time to reply.
15:11:42 <Kohane> So there's still time for them to reply,
15:11:54 <Kohane> Sorry if I didn't phrased it correctly.
15:11:58 <robyduck> Kohane: they don't have to reply at all
15:12:15 <Kohane> Yeah, but I would expect some reaction anyway.
15:12:18 <jonatoni> They just need to login to their FAS account
15:12:22 <Kohane> I would react at least.
15:12:24 <robyduck> jonatoni: cannot do anything about their status
15:12:59 <robyduck> they just have to make some activity in Fedora world (login, write a mail to ML or whatever)
15:14:32 <robyduck> ok, as giannisk is not around, we should probably rephrase this kind of process better on the wiki
15:14:55 * robyduck digs up a link
15:16:21 <robyduck> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService#Removal_Process_for_Ambassador.27s_Membership
15:17:47 <robyduck> the wiki says this is still under FAmSCo discussion, but I think this has just been forgotten to fix years ago, as we already applied it
15:18:18 <Kohane> ?
15:18:30 <robyduck> Kohane: yes please
15:18:50 <Kohane> Why does it say  "Remove from marketing list"?
15:19:14 <Kohane> All ambassadors are in the marketing list? Or am I misunderstanding something from this sentence?
15:19:34 <robyduck> because ambassadors *should* subscribe the marketing list too
15:19:39 <Kohane> Ah
15:19:58 <robyduck> that's what the ambassadors application process says
15:20:29 <Kohane> I didn't know. But I started contributing by writing articles in Fedora Magazine, so probably that's why this step was skipped.
15:20:40 <Kohane> Okay. Thanks, and sorry for the silly question.
15:21:03 <robyduck> np
15:21:07 <giannisk> .fas giannisk
15:21:07 <robyduck> are you fine withe "inactive ambassadors" section, and we should just remove the disclaimer "under FAmSCo discussion"?
15:21:07 <zodbot> giannisk: giannisk 'Giannis Konstantinidis' <giannis@konstantinidis.cc>
15:21:10 * giannisk waves at everyone
15:21:23 * Kohane waves back
15:21:28 <robyduck> #chair giannisk Kohane
15:21:28 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kohane fredlima giannisk itamarjp jonatoni mailga robyduck
15:21:35 <robyduck> hi giannisk
15:21:46 <Kohane> Yeah, we should remove the disclaimer.
15:22:25 <mailga> robyduck: it works for me.
15:22:56 <Kohane> robyduck: The section looks fine to me.
15:23:04 <fredlima> robyduck: for me to
15:23:20 <robyduck> #agreed FAmSCo will remove the disclaimer for inactive ambassadors which is still on the wiki
15:23:42 * robyduck will do it in a bit
15:24:18 <robyduck> #topic Updates for mentor's status
15:24:38 <robyduck> #link https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/416
15:24:51 <robyduck> giannisk: just in time, your turn ;)
15:24:52 <fredlima> do you write that after 6 months of inactivity those ambassadors will be removed?
15:25:00 <fredlima> oops, sorry, changed topic
15:25:14 <robyduck> fredlima: yes, that's the rule we always had
15:26:04 <fredlima> k, le'ts move on
15:26:06 <Kohane> But the inactive section doesn't include that part. I think it should be included. That their accounts will be removed after 6 months.
15:26:06 <robyduck> if you are inactive you get removed, which makes totally sense to me, even for other groups
15:26:14 <Kohane> Yes, of course.
15:26:19 <giannisk> !
15:26:26 <robyduck> Kohane: it's written in the section above
15:26:32 <robyduck> giannisk: yeah, sorry
15:28:40 <giannisk_> Bad wi-fi at the university.
15:29:01 <giannisk_> So, I reached out to the remaining mentors (who did not reply back) a few days ago.
15:29:09 <giannisk_> Gave them a deadline to respond until Friday.
15:29:32 <giannisk_> Failure to do so will result into them being listed as inactive (with an option to be reinstated in the future if they wish to)
15:29:48 <robyduck> great. Are we missing many replies?
15:30:23 <giannisk_> The ambassador mentor wiki page is currently up-to-date, based on the input I've been receiving.
15:30:36 <giannisk_> Most of them are either active or temporarily unavailable.
15:30:48 <giannisk_> robyduck: Missing about 1/3 I would say.
15:31:10 <giannisk_> Got replies from about 2/3 of the ambassador mentors.
15:31:16 <robyduck> oh, that's not so good
15:31:34 <Kohane> Yeah, 1/3 is a lot of people.
15:31:36 <robyduck> I mean, let's assume you are a new mentoree....
15:31:55 <giannisk_> Yes, hopefully we will have more news by Friday.
15:31:56 <robyduck> but ok, that's why we are updating that list
15:32:03 <Kohane> Chances are that you won't find a mentor.
15:32:22 <giannisk_> My last e-mail made it explicitly clear they will be set to inactive if they fail to respond once again.
15:33:15 <robyduck> hopefully not too harsh :)
15:33:25 <giannisk_> robyduck: Nope, not at all, hehe :)
15:33:35 <robyduck> giannisk_: great, thanks a bunch for your work on that
15:33:40 <giannisk_> But, like you said, imagine you're an ambassador candidate...
15:33:48 <giannisk_> What if mentors fail to reply back to you...
15:33:59 <Kohane> Well, that happens often in LATAM
15:34:12 <itamarjp> my recommendation is to let ambassador candidate file their ticket
15:35:06 <itamarjp> and a mentor take the ticket.
15:35:07 <robyduck> giannisk_: often people will not insist
15:35:55 <robyduck> or they ask another mentor, which also can create confusion if the first replies after 2 weeks
15:35:55 <fredlima> itamarjp: agreed
15:36:04 <robyduck> anything else?
15:36:06 <giannisk_> That's all from me btw, I will keep you all posted.
15:36:11 <giannisk_> eof and thank you
15:36:13 <robyduck> cool
15:36:21 <fredlima> giannisk_: thank you
15:36:45 <robyduck> #topic Discuss proposals for a more effective mentoring process and its administration (FAmA)
15:36:53 <robyduck> #link https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/415
15:37:26 <robyduck> This is going to be a long discussion I guess, but let's go with it
15:37:52 <robyduck> I'm not sure if you had time to read my idea
15:38:37 <robyduck> It's at least a point from where to start
15:38:55 <Kohane> robyduck: Give me a second to check I'm not missing anything, please.
15:39:12 <robyduck> mailga: you wanted to add your's too, but, would it be much different?
15:39:32 <robyduck> Kohane: ok, giving you all a few to check it out again
15:40:30 <mailga> robyduck: I read your points quickly and (I know, seems strange....) I agreed with you. Maybe when I'll dive in more deeply this can change, but for now it's a good starting point.
15:40:51 <Kohane> robyduck: I like your idea.
15:41:42 <robyduck> mailga: are you sick? :D
15:41:53 <Kohane> LOL
15:42:27 <robyduck> fredlima: itamarjp: comin back to your comments before, which fit here
15:42:56 <robyduck> It's better to have mentors filing the ticket, for several reasons
15:43:01 <mailga> robyduck: it's n option.... :-)
15:43:14 <robyduck> ha
15:43:41 <mailga> s/n/an
15:43:52 <Kohane> Ah, now it makes sense
15:44:00 <robyduck> the main reason is to avoid confusion in the ticketing system. Before that, only the FAmA filed the tickets and closed them as sponsored.
15:44:31 <itamarjp> looks good for me everything said in last comment from robyduck in the ticket
15:45:18 <jonatoni> +1 also from me
15:45:24 <robyduck> well, I didn't expect that at all :)
15:45:26 <fredlima> I agree with all, mainly with that the region can nominate a new mentor
15:45:27 <itamarjp> +1
15:45:29 <fredlima> +1
15:45:34 <Kohane> +1
15:45:54 <robyduck> but this proposal gives some of the responsibilities back to the FAmA
15:46:41 * giannisk_ is checking also.
15:46:46 <Kohane> Well... I'm fine with it...
15:46:53 <robyduck> fredlima: yes, the Region should be able to nominate a mentor, because often only regional ambassadors know the real mentoring situation
15:47:29 <giannisk_> +1, looks good to me
15:47:44 <robyduck> giannisk_: yes, please do, there are too many agreeing today :D
15:48:53 <robyduck> if I am counting right we have an unanimity for this proposal?
15:48:59 <giannisk> robyduck: Maybe 5 +1's from a regional community can be considered too low to nominate a mentor
15:49:07 <giannisk> But it still works.
15:49:11 <Kohane> Appparently today is our  "agreeing day"  :-D
15:49:41 <giannisk> My thought is, ideally we would probably want to avoid extremely too many nominations.
15:50:10 <robyduck> giannisk: yes, I thought the same, but on the other hand 5 +1s from a Region are the same a one mentor or FAmSCo member, it's just for nominating
15:50:21 <Kohane> giannisk:  I think is fine because it often happens that very few people attend regional meetings.
15:50:32 <giannisk> robyduck: That's true, it's for nominating.
15:50:43 <Kohane> If it becomes a problem, and there are too many nominations, well... we can rise the bar
15:50:46 <Kohane> Me think
15:50:51 <robyduck> giannisk: for sure, that's why nominations have to be explained with concrete reasons
15:52:14 <robyduck> Kohane: yes, we are going towards a new process, if we feel this is getting in the wrong direction, we can adjust it a bit, although I would avoid too many changes because people get confused
15:52:31 <Kohane> Yes, of course.
15:52:56 <Kohane> But I prefer to start with a low minimum and rise it if it's needed than the other way round.
15:53:35 <robyduck> Kohane: I thought about 5 votes, because regions already have that in their head (needed for ticket approvals)
15:53:49 <Kohane> Yes, I know.
15:54:22 <Kohane> I don't think is low, I'm just saying this because giannisk found it low.
15:54:59 <robyduck> before agreeing and changing the wiki, communicating it outside to all regions and ambassadors, we need to set also a new FAmA
15:55:16 <Kohane> Yes.
15:55:49 <robyduck> Tuan stepped down and I took over most of the permissions to get the stuff done we needed to do for migration etc, same for the FAmA repo
15:56:43 <robyduck> FAmA has really a lot of stuff to do, if we make this proposal happening, even for the Ambassadors ML
15:58:21 <robyduck> we have just two mentors in FAmSCo, and FAmA should be a mentor IMHO, because he also is responsible about the mentors' activities
15:58:49 <Kohane> Yes, that makes sense.
15:59:37 <robyduck> I can take it, and would be happy to do that, but, giannisk: you? or any idea who could make a good FAmA?
16:00:23 <robyduck> it's probably the best if we start with one between me and giannisk, as we have a new process that needs to be probably adjusted
16:00:46 <robyduck> but, really not sure
16:01:15 * giannisk is reading back the logs
16:01:16 <robyduck> we can also discuss that next time, as we are out of time for today
16:01:42 <giannisk> robyduck: Sure, I can help with mentors' activities
16:01:49 <Kohane> Yes, I think is better to leave it for the next meeting.
16:01:58 <robyduck> ok
16:02:41 <robyduck> I'll add a comment to the ticket, that we agreed about the proposal, and we can just try to find the new FAmA there
16:02:57 <robyduck> anything else?
16:03:06 <robyduck> (skipping Open Floor)
16:03:27 <mailga> nope
16:03:42 <jonatoni> no
16:03:45 <Kohane> Not from my side.
16:04:02 <robyduck> ok then, thanks to all for coming, was productive today ;)
16:04:21 <jonatoni> thanks for chairing :)
16:04:33 <jonatoni> bye everybody
16:04:38 <robyduck> I will be traveling next wednesday, and probably cannot attend
16:04:52 <Kohane> Oh, that's bad.
16:05:01 <giannisk> robyduck: I can take the next one, no worries.
16:05:02 <robyduck> next time is also UTC +2 for EU members
16:05:09 <robyduck> cool, thanks giannisk
16:05:10 <Kohane> Doh...
16:05:10 <giannisk> Hope the university wi-fi will be nice to me...
16:05:23 <robyduck> #endmeeting