15:00:06 <giannisk> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2017-07-26
15:00:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 26 15:00:06 2017 UTC.  The chair is giannisk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2017-07-26'
15:00:11 <giannisk> #meetingname famsco
15:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
15:00:17 <giannisk> #topic Roll Call
15:00:21 <giannisk> .hello giannisk
15:00:22 <zodbot> giannisk: giannisk 'Giannis Konstantinidis' <giannis@konstantinidis.cc>
15:00:27 <jonatoni> .fas jonatoni
15:00:28 <zodbot> jonatoni: jonatoni 'Jona Azizaj' <jonaazizaj@gmail.com>
15:01:04 <itamarjp> .fas itamarjp
15:01:05 <zodbot> itamarjp: itamarjp 'Itamar Reis Peixoto' <itamar@ispbrasil.com.br>
15:01:35 <giannisk> Hello and welcome to yet another regular FAmSCo meeting. :D
15:01:45 <mailga> .hello mailga
15:01:46 <giannisk> Let's wait for a few more minutes for other members to show up as well...
15:01:49 <zodbot> mailga: mailga 'Gabriele Trombini' <g.trombini@gmail.com>
15:02:54 <giannisk> Just FYI, before we start with our topics for today, Elections are coming.
15:02:57 <giannisk> #link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/elections-august-2017-nomination-open/
15:03:02 <mailga> #info Sylvia sends regrets but she's not able to addend today.
15:03:20 <giannisk> Three seats will be available for FAmSCo.
15:03:37 <fredlima> .fas fredlima
15:03:38 <zodbot> fredlima: fredlima 'Frederico Henrique Gonçalves Lima' <fred@fredericolima.com.br>
15:03:47 <giannisk> As per the FAmSCo election rules these members finish their term and their seats are up for re-election: Itamar Reis Peixoto (itamarjp), Frederico Lima (fredlima) and Silvia Sanchez (kohane).
15:03:58 * mailga is not chair, please giannisk copy/paste the info about Sylvia.
15:04:27 <giannisk> You can nominate yourselves until 31 Jul, by adding your names to the wiki page below:
15:04:35 <giannisk> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_nominations
15:04:55 <giannisk> #info August Elections - Nomination Period Open
15:05:06 <giannisk> #chair jonatoni itamarjp mailga fredlima
15:05:06 <zodbot> Current chairs: fredlima giannisk itamarjp jonatoni mailga
15:05:27 <giannisk> #info Quorum Reached (5/7)
15:05:44 <giannisk> #info Kohane and robyduck send regrets
15:06:09 * giannisk is talking a look at Pagure.
15:06:22 <mailga> giannisk: thanks (I forgot Robert, as usual in my life... :-D )
15:06:30 <giannisk> mailga: hehehe :P
15:07:12 <giannisk> .famsco 429
15:07:13 <zodbot> giannisk: Issue #429: Remove Mark Terranova (markdude) as mentor - famsco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/429
15:07:30 <giannisk> #topic Issue #429: Remove Mark Terranova (markdude) as mentor
15:08:01 <giannisk> I realise we are all familiar with the situation here
15:08:34 <mailga> I tried to reach Mark also by facebook a couple of day ago. No replies. So I think we should move forward and give our +1 to the region's request.
15:09:09 <giannisk> Yes, people have been telling he has neither responded to individual messages nor has he bothered to reply on the actual tickets.
15:09:16 <giannisk> #link https://pagure.io/ambassadors-na/tasks/issue/178
15:09:33 <giannisk> ^The issue submitted at NA's repo.
15:10:52 <giannisk> NA asks that he is removed, I see no negative votes and I also see no replies from markdude.
15:11:25 <mailga> let's vote (we have quorum).
15:11:53 <giannisk> FAmSCo can choose whether to "honor" that request.
15:12:12 <giannisk> +1 from my side.
15:12:13 <mailga> +1 for remove markdude
15:12:28 <itamarjp> +1
15:12:38 <jonatoni> +1
15:13:07 <giannisk> fredlima: thoughts?
15:14:14 * mailga knows also robyduck agrees the removal.
15:14:21 <giannisk> fredlima: This is approved (4/7), but your input would be more than appreciated.
15:14:26 <fredlima> +1
15:15:14 <giannisk> #agreed FAmSCo confirms NA's decision to remove markdude as mentor (5/7 Votes)
15:15:37 <mailga> nb: around?
15:15:40 <giannisk> FAmA can handle next steps, i.e. removing markdude as ambassadors sponsor, etc.
15:16:23 <giannisk> #action nb giannisk robyduck (FAmA) remove markdude as ambassador mentor
15:16:27 <fredlima> giannisk: sorry, I'm working right now :-(
15:16:34 <giannisk> fredlima: no worries :)
15:17:10 <giannisk> Anything else here, folks?
15:17:15 * mailga forgot giannisk was also a FAmA :-( sorry..
15:17:46 <mailga> giannisk: no.
15:18:40 * giannisk is looking at the Pagure.
15:19:56 <mailga> I'm checking the #431, I thing we can vote on this.
15:20:43 <giannisk> mailga: thanks, was just looking at #432 which needs extra discussion
15:20:48 <giannisk> .famsco 431
15:20:50 <zodbot> giannisk: Issue #431: Need approval for APAC budget requests - famsco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/431
15:21:03 <giannisk> #topic Issue #431: Need approval for APAC budget requests
15:21:52 <giannisk> APAC is asking us to help them with reviewing their regional budget requests
15:22:12 <giannisk> There are three separate requests, let's have a look at one at a time:
15:22:20 <giannisk> #link https://pagure.io/ambassadors-apac/issue/268
15:22:46 <giannisk> This is for producing media for their region
15:23:02 <giannisk> Costs seems to be split per area
15:23:46 * giannisk reads through the replies on the ticket.
15:24:05 <mailga> seems they accepted 450/500 USD including shipping. It's not a big amount IMO.
15:24:14 <nb> hi
15:24:18 * nb is here now
15:24:53 <giannisk> nb: hi, FAmSCo confirmed NA's decision to remove markdude - we can move ahead with the next steps
15:25:10 <nb> great!
15:25:19 * nb will take care of it
15:25:26 <mailga> nb++
15:25:26 <zodbot> mailga: Karma for nb changed to 9 (for the f26 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:25:26 <giannisk> nb++
15:25:29 <zodbot> giannisk: Karma for nb changed to 10 (for the f26 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:26:03 <giannisk> mailga: I see one person agreeing with the idea of 450-500 USD but no further input from others
15:26:41 * giannisk brb for a minute
15:27:05 <jonatoni> I have seen the comments on that ticket and I have followed the discussion, I agree with robyduck to approve 450-500 USD
15:27:17 * giannisk is back.
15:27:37 <giannisk> I also share robyduck's thoughts related to costs and time efficiency
15:27:52 <mailga> giannisk: yes but the one that agreed is the same person will get in touch with the supplier.
15:28:44 <giannisk> mailga: Aha, I see
15:29:18 <giannisk> We could vote for 500 USD maximum, fair enough
15:29:19 <mailga> giannisk: and we also know that DVD are still useful for some regions.
15:29:27 <giannisk> FAmSCo members, any other thoughts?
15:29:43 <giannisk> mailga: Indeed
15:30:05 <mailga> for me is +1 for 500USD max.
15:30:17 <giannisk> Also +1 for 500 USD max
15:30:19 <fredlima> +1 also
15:30:22 <jonatoni> +1
15:31:13 <giannisk> #agreed 500 USD maximum approved by FAmSCo for F26 Media production in APAC
15:31:23 <itamarjp> +1 too
15:31:28 <giannisk> Next one
15:31:38 * mailga thinks that if we approve also the #272 we can approve the whole #431
15:32:27 <giannisk> mailga: these are two separate requests for different release parties, aren't they?
15:32:34 <jonatoni> yes
15:32:48 <giannisk> #link https://pagure.io/ambassadors-apac/issue/269
15:33:04 <jonatoni> btw I need to go, +1 from my part for both tickets because I have already checked them
15:33:09 <jonatoni> bye all :)
15:33:22 <mailga> see ya soon jonatoni
15:33:23 <giannisk> jonatoni: thanks, see you!
15:33:40 <giannisk> Okay, #269 requests 100 USD for a release party
15:33:54 <giannisk> Sounds reasonable, +1 from me
15:34:15 <fredlima> +1
15:34:23 <itamarjp> +1
15:34:24 <mailga> giannisk it was approved for 100 USD max in the last meeting.
15:34:25 <giannisk> Btw, it looks like the event already took place: http://sumantrom.blogspot.gr/2017/07/fedora-26-release-party-bangalore.html
15:34:51 <giannisk> mailga: Thanks mailga, didn't remember with too many tickets going around xD
15:35:02 <fredlima> https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jwQkePJ9ZQw/WXca4ESopsI/AAAAAAAAGhQ/Ac0q5toL5vsLh6_60zFzjRkkx0I_EMoZQCLcBGAs/s640/photo6025904563455895748.jpg
15:35:10 <fredlima> cake /\
15:35:15 <fredlima> cool
15:35:53 <mailga> giannisk: I really hate tickets grouped.
15:35:54 <giannisk> #info #269 already approved
15:36:16 <giannisk> #link https://pagure.io/ambassadors-apac/issue/272
15:36:32 * giannisk is becoming crazy with all those open tabs in his browser
15:37:11 <giannisk> robyduck approved this already as a FAmSCo member
15:37:12 <mailga> giannisk the 272 is approved by robyduck because it was urgent, but I have no problem to gine my +1 as well.
15:37:38 <giannisk> up to 100 USD is totally fine for a release party
15:37:50 <itamarjp> 272 looks better than previous one, because they said how many attendees they are expecting.
15:37:51 <giannisk> +1 from me additionally
15:37:52 <itamarjp> +1
15:38:03 * mailga thinks giannisk's not becoming crazy.... he's yet....
15:38:05 <mailga> +1
15:38:22 <giannisk> jonatoni also gave her +1
15:38:35 <giannisk> #agreed FAmSCo confirms #272's approval
15:38:51 <mailga> so we can approve #431 as a whole?
15:38:55 <giannisk> And that's how we took care of #431
15:39:06 <giannisk> It's done, will update it after the meeting
15:39:41 <giannisk> #agreed FAmSCo's #431 resolved, all APAC tickets reviewed
15:39:49 <mailga> giannisk++ without becoming (too) crazy.. :-D
15:39:49 <zodbot> mailga: Karma for giannisk changed to 1 (for the f26 release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
15:40:03 <giannisk> Inception, ticket within a ticket, two levels
15:40:12 <giannisk> :D
15:40:45 <giannisk> We have about 20 minutes left, let's have a look at $432
15:40:58 <giannisk> s/$432/#432
15:41:03 <giannisk> .famsco 432
15:41:04 <zodbot> giannisk: Issue #432: Cleaning Up - famsco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/432
15:41:15 <giannisk> #topic Issue #432: Cleaning Up
15:42:11 <giannisk> As robyduck explained, the list gets updated from time to time and includes ambassadors who are active on FAS.
15:42:24 <giannisk> So, not much to be done on that side I presume
15:42:26 <mailga> I simply agree with bex and robyduck, nothing more to say by my side.
15:43:01 <giannisk> There is an issue indeed that Africa is not displayed as part of EMEA.
15:43:37 <giannisk> We should probably FWD to the Infra team and ask for a fix.
15:43:40 <giannisk> Thoughts?
15:44:21 <mailga> giannisk: this is an Infra issue, iMO.
15:45:07 <giannisk> FAmA is also involved, probably those two should co-ordinate
15:45:51 <mailga> Is there any FAmA pagure? I don't recall..
15:46:09 <giannisk> mailga: there is
15:46:21 <giannisk> #link https://pagure.io/fama
15:46:27 <bexelbie> .hello bex
15:46:28 <zodbot> bexelbie: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' <bex@pobox.com>
15:46:54 <mailga> so my proposal is to close the FAmSCo one and open the ticket in FAmA or Infra.
15:47:06 * mailga waves to bexelbie
15:47:31 <bexelbie> ?
15:47:51 <giannisk> Do we agree that FAmA/Infra are to be informed and asked to deploy a fix (related to Africa not being displayed as part of EMEA)?
15:48:33 <mailga> before voting, let's hear bexelbie, maybe is related to this issue.
15:48:45 <mailga> bexelbie: go ahead
15:48:50 <giannisk> bexelbie: feel free :)
15:48:53 <bexelbie> not related to Africa's placement (which for the record I agree with the statement by giannisk )
15:48:59 <bexelbie> but about the ticket in general: I thought FAmA was for mentors .. is this wrong?  Also, will having the script re-run really clean up the activity?  For example, I was told there most of hte ambassadors listed for NA are not active - they shouldn't be listed then.
15:49:10 <bexelbie> I am worried about the names on the lsit too
15:50:02 <mailga> bexelbie: Fedora Ambassadors Administration = FAmA. So it's not only for mentors.
15:50:45 <giannisk> bexelbie: FAmA is related to the Ambassadors' Membership, generally
15:51:31 <bexelbie> then FAmA sounds like they are the right body - if they actually get the list cleaned up to just active ambassadors :)
15:51:50 <giannisk> bexelbie: It's hard to define who is active and who is not, also what the criteria are. Currently, as long as someone even logs into his FAS account, he is considered active by the system.
15:52:25 <bexelbie> giannisk, isn't this a question FAmSCo or FAmA should be able to answer.  We can set the criteria :)
15:53:06 <bexelbie> We shouldn't allow a situation where we claim we have lots of ambassadors in some cases and none in others meanwhile we allow people outside of Fedora to get lost contacting people who won't respond.
15:53:19 <bexelbie> I don't want to create a rabbit-hole or hijack this meeting - but this is a rather serious problem
15:53:30 <bexelbie> if it isn't a FAmSCo problem, then lets get it to those who can solve it
15:53:31 <bexelbie> eom
15:53:38 <giannisk> bexelbie: Last time we did that, we agreed that any recorded FAS activity over 18 months "justifies" activity. This was like a year ago, if my memory serves me correctly.
15:54:03 <giannisk> We can surely open up another round and review that again.
15:54:16 <mailga> bexelbie: FAmSCo is the decisional power, FAmA the administrative power.
15:55:17 <bexelbie> I offer this link: https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/126#comment-447856
15:55:28 <bexelbie> in it there is a statement made about how there are 10 ambassadors in NA
15:55:31 <bexelbie> the list has over 120 listed
15:55:41 <bexelbie> I don't know that FAS activity is a sufficient marker of activity
15:56:02 <bexelbie> mailga, that makes it sound like FAmSCo needs to make this decision not FAmA
15:56:19 * bexelbie didn't realize there was so much administrative work in ambassadors - I look forward to finding the FAmA logs
15:57:58 <mailga> bexelbie: yes, correct. FAmSCo make decisions, FAmA applies the decisions if they are relate to admin the group.
15:58:17 * giannisk notes that FAmA doesn't hold meetings
15:58:45 <giannisk> Alright, so, we have a few minutes left - less than two in, fact.
15:58:48 <bexelbie> again, I don't want to rabbit-hole on this or hijack the meeting - but the goal of my ticket was to get this list cleaned up, not just move Africa
15:59:31 <giannisk> What I suggest is voting on deploying the fix to display Africa properly on that wiki page.
15:59:37 <mailga> bexelbie: there's (if I understand your point) a small routine who matches Fedmesg and FAS account. If for a long period a contributor doesn't show up, it is market inactive.
15:59:57 <giannisk> And we could open up a discussion on FAmSCo's pagure over re-defining ambassadors activity.
16:00:28 <giannisk> So, do we agree that FAmA/Infra are to be informed and asked to deploy a fix (related to Africa not being displayed as part of EMEA)?
16:00:38 <mailga> +1 agree
16:00:45 <bexelbie> As ticket submitter, but not a voter in this group, I am ok with fixing Africa and having you all open a new ticket to fix inactive names in the list
16:00:53 <bexelbie> I've got opinions htere if you all want them when the time comes
16:01:18 <giannisk> +1 to fix "Africa"
16:01:24 <fredlima> Sorry, I have to go, bye
16:01:39 <mailga> +1 to fix "Africa"
16:01:47 <giannisk> Couldn't he vote before leaving? :D
16:02:17 <giannisk> jonatoni is also gone, right
16:02:22 <mailga> giannisk: we don't have the quorum anyway.
16:02:25 <mailga> yes.
16:02:45 <giannisk> No quorum now, I will post a reply at #432 to resume efforts
16:03:04 <mailga> we can update ticket for the lazy consensus.
16:03:07 <giannisk> #action giannisk respond to #432 with latest feedback
16:03:25 <giannisk> mailga: Sure, we can
16:03:44 <giannisk> Okay, anything else, related to #432 or generally?
16:03:55 <giannisk> If not, I should end the meeting in 2 minutes
16:04:37 <giannisk> Thanks so much everyone for coming today
16:06:07 <giannisk> #endmeeting