15:18:55 <robyduck> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2017-08-23
15:18:55 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 23 15:18:55 2017 UTC.  The chair is robyduck. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:18:55 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:18:55 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco_2017-08-23'
15:19:02 <robyduck> #meetingname famsco
15:19:02 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
15:19:07 <robyduck> #topic Roll Call
15:19:11 <robyduck> .hello2
15:19:12 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
15:19:30 <robyduck> #chair Sumantro jonatoni mailga nb
15:19:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sumantro jonatoni mailga nb robyduck
15:19:31 * Sumantro is here
15:19:32 <jonatoni> .fas jonatoni
15:19:32 <zodbot> jonatoni: jonatoni 'Jona Azizaj' <jonaazizaj@gmail.com>
15:20:05 <robyduck> sorry for being late, I tried to reach out to mailga
15:20:31 <robyduck> #info Welcome to all new members, Sumantro is the only one here AFAICS
15:20:50 * mailga is still working, but I can give a glance.
15:20:51 <robyduck> It's good to have a representative from every region, finally
15:21:21 <Sumantro> Yes!
15:21:31 <robyduck> so, as for every release cycle, and after elections, we need to appoint a chair
15:21:39 <nb> hi
15:21:48 <Sumantro> Hi nb
15:21:55 <robyduck> #topic FAmSCo chair for F27 release cycle
15:21:55 * nb is at work but hopefully will be at his desk for a while
15:22:02 <robyduck> Hi nb and welcome to FAmSCo
15:22:02 * nb nominates robyduck
15:22:29 * Sumantro nominates robyduck
15:23:48 <robyduck> I can make it again if you wish, not sure if anyone else wants to nominate himself
15:25:02 <robyduck> I think I can open a ticket and we can make the same process as last time.
15:25:21 <Sumantro> Robyduck +1
15:25:39 <robyduck> I will accept the nominations and we can see if giannisk or whoever wants to add himself too
15:26:03 <robyduck> #action robyduck to open a ticket for election of the chair
15:26:35 <robyduck> #topic Split treasurers and CC holder roles
15:26:42 <robyduck> this is ticket...ehmm
15:27:12 <robyduck> (pagure is not working here)
15:27:52 <robyduck> Sumantro: nb: did you have any time to read something in the FAmSCo pagure?
15:28:12 <robyduck> https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/434
15:28:24 <Sumantro> Nopes will do it tomorrow robyduck
15:29:20 <robyduck> resuming: NA and APAC have the same person as treasurer and CC holder
15:29:54 <robyduck> this leads to conflicts, and blocks activities and reimbursements if that person is not around
15:30:07 <robyduck> we have this problem actually in APAC
15:31:08 <robyduck> the proposal is to avoid this by asking the COuncil to set a rule for that
15:31:27 <robyduck> and split those roles between two different persons
15:31:57 <Sumantro> Robyduck that will be good.
15:32:01 <robyduck> furthermore, bexelbie said we could think of putting a time limit to those roles
15:32:42 <robyduck> he proposed 2 years, so 4 release cycles, although storically this would be aweful when thinking about issuing new credit cards
15:33:27 <robyduck> he replied, RedHat is changing the procedure and we can ask for whatever we like, now. Not when things are baked..means in 5 months
15:33:34 <robyduck> thoughts?
15:34:18 <robyduck> we agreed mainly about splitting the two roles, but didn't discuss if we want this for 2 years or not
15:34:34 <Sumantro> Robyduck the time constraints is a good idea
15:35:05 <robyduck> the thing here is> is a time limit a pro? Why? Or is that creating issues more than advantages?
15:36:28 <robyduck> I think I spoke too much, all sleeping :D
15:37:05 <Sumantro> If there is a time sensitive approach , we all can kinda decide on the right people
15:37:20 * jonatoni is at Nextcloud conference but she will comment on the ticket later
15:38:11 <robyduck> Sumantro: that's true, but will we always find the people easily?
15:38:18 * robyduck hopes yes
15:38:42 <Sumantro> Me too hopes
15:40:04 <robyduck> not sure if we can collect more thoughts here, so let's add them to pagure and then decide before Flock
15:40:26 <Sumantro> +1
15:40:44 <robyduck> as we are going to make an advice, I would also make a lazy consensus call
15:41:22 <robyduck> #action robyduck will ask for concrete thoughts about time limits and the go for lazy consensus
15:41:48 <robyduck> #topic Discuss alignment of ambassador efforts
15:41:56 <robyduck> https://pagure.io/famsco/issue/435
15:42:02 <robyduck> this is rather important
15:42:13 <robyduck> https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/ambassadors-fedora-strategy/
15:42:35 * Sumantro is having less bandwidth
15:43:06 <nb> sorry, i am here now
15:43:26 * nb is strongly against requring a separate treasurer and CC holder
15:43:32 <nb> we have operated that way for quite a while in NA
15:43:56 <nb> there is no conflict, at least in NA, because the treasurer/card holder only operates as directed at our meetings
15:44:03 <nb> they do not approve expenses themselves
15:44:24 * nb thinks time constraint is not good
15:44:34 <nb> if it works, and if the region wants to keep the same person, why force a change?
15:44:53 * nb doesn't see a lot of people wanting to step up to be cc holder and/or treasurer in NA, it's a lot of work, so why kick award3535 out?
15:45:59 <robyduck> nobody wants to kick anybody, but there is a hige possibility things can be blocked suddenly, just think if that person has some family matters
15:46:10 <robyduck> or working issues, or whatever
15:46:25 <nb> yes, but how will a time limit solve that?
15:46:35 <nb> the new person who just took over may have a family matter or working issue
15:46:45 <nb> I think any time limits should be set by the region
15:46:57 <nb> and if there is ap roblem with the current treasurer/card holder, the region can replace them
15:46:57 <robyduck> we are not saying the persons who do that actually do the work bad, we want to be sure (or limit) the possibility that things get blocked in some way
15:47:10 <nb> robyduck, how would replacing the person every 2 years help not get blocked?
15:47:14 <nb> the new person could have an issue too
15:47:26 <robyduck> nb: I am not really for a time limit, because I also think it's difficult to find te right persons every 2 years
15:47:29 <nb> leave it up to the region, whatever works for them
15:47:35 <robyduck> (although you can just confirm them too)
15:47:36 <nb> but I am also against requiring the roles be split
15:47:54 <robyduck> nb: no, I don't want to let all up to the region
15:48:03 <robyduck> nb: why
15:48:12 <nb> that requires us to find more people to do the work
15:48:24 <nb> I think it makes more sense for the roles to be combined since they are similar
15:48:32 <nb> treasurer documents what is spent, cc holder spends it
15:48:40 <nb> so why can't the cc holder document it when they spend it?
15:48:40 <robyduck> yes
15:49:13 <robyduck> because it leads to a possible conflict of interests
15:49:29 <nb> how? doesn't someone have to review the cc holder's report?
15:49:40 <robyduck> and it doesn't resolve my problem, if that person is not around from time to time (as happening in APAC)
15:49:48 <nb> and the cc holder, at least in NA is not authorized to spend money without the meeting saying to
15:49:56 <nb> robyduck, but splitting the roles wouldn't solve the problem either
15:50:03 <nb> the problem would be solved by replacing cardholder
15:50:12 <nb> if there is problem with a cardholder, then replace them
15:50:34 <robyduck> yes, but then I have to replace just the cardholder
15:50:38 <robyduck> not also the treasurer
15:50:55 <robyduck> I see these roles different
15:50:59 <nb> robyduck, /me is not saying that they should have to be the same
15:51:08 <nb> if a region wants a separate cardholder and treasurer, fine
15:51:14 <robyduck> nb: you said that until now
15:51:15 <nb> but I do not think that FAmSCo should require it
15:51:28 <robyduck> nb: not FAmSCo, the Council
15:51:46 <nb> Council is requiring this?
15:51:59 <robyduck> we are asked to discuss this and advice the Council if this is something we should do or not
15:52:12 * nb suggests we advise the council that it should not be mandatory
15:52:24 <nb> the roles could be separate or could be combined, depending on what the region desires
15:52:25 <robyduck> nb: FAmSCo doesn't handle the budget anymore
15:52:45 <nb> robyduck, true
15:53:10 * nb proposes we recommend that the roles may be separate, but are not requried to be separate
15:53:14 <robyduck> nb: that's the point, we want to make the same rules for all, not let every country make their own thing
15:53:17 <robyduck> or region
15:53:30 <nb> ok, let me rephrase my proposal
15:53:43 * robyduck listening
15:54:03 <nb> Treasurer and Card Holder are separate roles, but there should be nothing prohibiting both roles from being held by the same person, if desired.
15:54:44 <nb> that way it clarifies that they are separate
15:54:52 <nb> but that the region may select the same person for both, should they desire
15:54:57 <robyduck> ok, can you add this to the ticket too, together with your concerns about time limits?
15:55:04 <nb> ok
15:55:46 <robyduck> we can then discuss it further there or make it ready for votation
15:56:12 <robyduck> I feel we can also talk about it @Flock with the FCAIC to make the right thing
15:57:00 <robyduck> anything else for today?
15:57:18 <robyduck> oh yes, the meeting time!!
15:57:31 <robyduck> #topic Meeting time
15:57:59 <robyduck> nb: Sumantro jonatoni mailga are you fine with this time or should we reschedule?
15:58:10 <jonatoni> it's fine for me
15:58:27 <Sumantro> Fine for me too
15:58:47 <robyduck> nb: for you it's noon more or less, right?
15:59:33 <nb> should be ok usually
15:59:39 <nb> I might have to miss sometimes, if I am busy at work
16:00:22 <robyduck> ok, then let's meet at the same time in two weeks and then see if it workd even for the others, still
16:00:33 <robyduck> thank you all for coming and sorry again for being late today
16:00:48 <robyduck> nb: Sumantro cool you were able to make it today
16:01:12 <robyduck> we will meet wedensday after Flock, next week's meeting is cancelled.
16:01:17 <robyduck> #endmeeting