13:00:15 #startmeeting workstation 13:00:15 Meeting started Mon Jun 18 13:00:15 2018 UTC. 13:00:15 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 13:00:15 The chair is mcatanzaro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 13:00:15 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 13:00:15 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation' 13:00:20 #meetingname Workstation WG 13:00:20 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg' 13:00:26 #topic roll call 13:00:30 .hello catanzaro 13:00:31 mcatanzaro: catanzaro 'Michael Catanzaro' 13:00:45 .hello ryanlerch 13:00:46 ryanlerch: ryanlerch 'Ryan Lerch' 13:03:43 .hello mclasen 13:03:44 mclasen: mclasen 'Matthias Clasen' 13:05:16 we need some more people 13:05:26 Yup 13:05:37 no cschaller here, don't see owen online either 13:06:14 I understand kalev is on vacation 13:06:55 oh, he's back today 13:06:58 lets find him 13:06:58 kalev is back! 13:07:16 OK, now we are four... need one more 13:07:29 cschaller just walked in here 13:07:59 Westford? 13:08:06 Anyway, I'll count him as five... let's start 13:08:28 * cschalle hi 13:08:34 #topic VS Code repo as external repo 13:08:35 * cschalle sorry I am late 13:08:38 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/52 13:09:18 This one has been tagged for meeting for two months, with no activity. I missed last week, but I don't remember discussing it. 13:09:24 ok, so I been in touch with Microsoft and I think I am speaking with the right people now. Haven't gotten over the finish line yet though 13:09:43 OK, so still being handled by cschalle... anything to discuss this week? 13:09:45 mcatanzaro, ah, I think it was supposed to be tagged for me :) 13:10:09 mcatanzaro, not really apart from that update. I mean they have a fully functional RPM YUM repo, we just need to convince them to add the metadata 13:10:24 cschalle: Could you remove the meeting tag please, and add some comment to the issue to update us as to the status of it? We'll move on to the next agenda item, then. 13:10:33 will do 13:10:46 #topic PyCharm repo doesn't work 13:10:49 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/55 13:11:41 Is this another one for cschalle? What's the status here? 13:11:55 I thought that got resolved as he updated his repo? 13:13:08 yep, this one should be resolved 13:13:31 hmm, still broken when I just tried. Ok let me reach out to the maintainer 13:13:35 not sure the social issue around this is resolved though? is the copr repo author still ok with it being an official workstation 3rd party repo? 13:14:01 kalev, he didn't respond to my comment when I pointed out to him he agreed to it in 2015, but I will find out 13:14:36 ok, taking this ticket too :) 13:14:41 great, thanks cschalle :) 13:14:47 #action cschalle to follow up with repo maintainer 13:14:50 Yes, thanks cschalle 13:15:07 Please update the ticket too 13:15:10 Moving on 13:15:21 #topic firefox-wayland desktop file 13:15:25 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/59 13:15:40 We now have two different Firefox icons... I don't like it 13:16:10 they are the same icon... 13:16:12 My preference would be for the testing icon (Firefox on Wayland) to be moved to a subpackage, so that it's opt-in instead of seen by all our users. Thoughts? 13:16:29 OK, one icon, two launchers. Violates our rule that the launchers must have a unique icon, anyway. :P 13:17:01 I would prefer the icon to be different in some way, if we have to keep it 13:17:07 hmm, I got search in GNOME Software, I only see one Firefox offered 13:17:19 mcatanzaro: +1 -- i get confused now when i install a flatpak and the same application as an RPM 13:17:21 s/got/just/ 13:17:30 having this by default with firefox is not ideal 13:17:41 cschalle: It's only one package, so you'll only see it once in Software, but you should have it twice on your desktop. 13:17:58 I have two different applications in my overview: "Firefox" and "Firefox on Wayland" 13:17:59 oh, I hadn't even noticed ;) 13:18:39 #chair rdieter cschalle ryanlerch mclasen kalev 13:18:39 Current chairs: cschalle kalev mcatanzaro mclasen rdieter ryanlerch 13:19:33 hi 13:19:47 I think we should ask the firefox team to remove it, or move it to a subpackage, as you say 13:20:02 * kalev agrees. 13:20:07 Hi rdieter! Anyway yes, I agree with mclasen's proposal. 13:20:15 +1 to a subpackage from me 13:20:26 ok subpackage seems fine to me too +1 13:20:45 OK, I'll update the ticket. Final agenda item next! \o/ 13:20:52 #topic Wayland remoting 13:20:56 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/60 13:21:21 Do we support the proposal to (a) install gnome-remote-desktop by default, and (b) make the pipewire service socket-activated? 13:21:40 I assume "yes" to both as this seems uncontroversial 13:21:59 +1 from me 13:22:02 side-question, why was it removed? 13:22:11 why was what removed ? 13:22:38 the bug says "bring back" 13:22:53 desktop sharing was always supported under X, and so far, not under wayland 13:23:04 mclasen: ah -- okies thanks! 13:23:05 so the change to wayland by default 'removed' it 13:23:31 +1 to the proposal(s) from me 13:23:38 +1 from me as well, naturally 13:23:58 I'm not sure if there are technicalities for socket-activation - does that need fesco approval ? kalev ? 13:24:00 +1 13:24:49 mclasen: One sec, I'll get you the policy. It's not too difficult. 13:25:08 thanks sgallagh 13:25:14 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:DefaultServices 13:25:39 is it a system or user service ? 13:25:50 (of former, then it will require approval, otherwise not) 13:25:54 if former... 13:26:08 I looked into that awhile back when researching pulseaudio activation 13:27:23 rdieter: Even if it's a user service, if it's opening a port for other computers to talk to, it should follow this policy. 13:28:00 it doesn't 13:28:11 But I'll note that FESCo *has* delegated the right to make such decisions to the Workstation WG for things that are exclusive to Workstation installs 13:28:37 e.g. Workstation WG explicitly disables sshd-by-default 13:29:48 OK it's half past... I'm going to have to turn over the meeting chair to a "volunteer." I nominate mclasen since this is the last issue and he created the ticket. OK, mclasen? 13:30:07 sure. but ... aren't we done ? 13:30:32 I saw 3 +1's so far 13:30:35 mclasen: FWIW, my reading of the pipewire service suggests that it probably will pass the criteria to skip FESCo/WG approval 13:30:35 +1 13:30:54 +1 13:30:58 +1 13:31:10 So just file the BZ using the template at the bottom of that wiki page and I'll get it processed for F29 13:31:38 #action: mclasen to file a bz for the pipewire socket activation change 13:31:45 any volunteer for the comps change ? 13:31:49 kalev, can you do that ? 13:31:55 sure 13:32:56 #action: kalev to add gnome-remote-desktop to comps 13:33:07 #topic: open floor 13:33:16 ok, so I have an item 13:33:20 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/61 13:33:45 So Ferral Interactive released a tool to change the CPU governor due to problems with game performance under the default one 13:33:59 I been discussing it with various people internally and I also talked to Valve 13:34:45 I think we should ship it at this point, only downside is that while it is active your battery will drain faster, but on the other hand you are playing a performance sensitive game battery life is probably not your main concern 13:36:01 how will this work with flatpak sandboxes ? 13:36:09 is there a dbus api ? 13:36:51 I don't think they have a dbus API currently, but maybe they would be open to adding it 13:38:52 any other questions about this ? do we vote on it ? 13:39:34 kalev? ryanlerch? rdieter ? mcatanzaro ? any comments? 13:40:03 makes sense to ship it I think 13:40:04 How are games supposed to use it if there's no D-Bus API? 13:40:09 is this something that is 'safe' to allow apps to do ? fiddle with the governor ? 13:40:12 Anyway, if it's open source, it's fine by me 13:40:32 I'm ok with it in general, will need to test it out of course 13:40:43 It would be packaged for Fedora, not a third-party repo? Probably CPU governor tools should not be third-party. :) 13:40:44 mcatanzaro, it is open, BSD license 13:40:52 mcatanzaro, yeah in Fedora proper 13:41:28 I think it makes sense to have a way for apps to say 'need maximum performance' 13:42:16 well, yes 13:42:23 mclasen, I don't think its unsafe in the sense that it is just a on/off switch and no risk of system corruption or sometihng like that 13:42:28 but does the user need to have a way to say yes or no ? 13:42:52 mclasen, no the games just use it I think if its available on the system 13:43:03 mclasen, the games do complain about it not being there though if it isn't 13:43:22 I would expect that users may have some desire to be in control of their battery life 13:43:46 and random apps fiddling with governors seems a step in the wrong direction for htat 13:43:58 mclasen, if they are they are probably not playing a high performance game :) 13:45:07 mclasen, the thing is that once you load one of those games on your system, you probably don't want to be on battery regardless 13:45:24 mclasen, because even with the default governor your GPU will have your battery for lunch 13:45:49 does this thing have bugs ? are we confident that it doesn't leave the 'eat batteries' governor turned on ? 13:46:28 mclasen, well that would be part of our evaluation when packaging it, but so far I seen no public complaints about it 13:46:47 oh, it isn't even packaged ? 13:47:00 what would we be voting on then ? 13:47:23 mclasen, to get it packaged and included 13:47:47 ok 13:48:01 shall we bring it up again when there's a package to include ? 13:48:22 as you say, package review will give it some scrutiny 13:48:35 any volunteers to package it ? 13:48:46 mclasen, no so you and I will have to find someone 13:48:58 thats what I'm doing right now... 13:50:40 alright, lets bring it back up when we have a package in fedora that can be included 13:50:44 ok, so action item for me and mclasen: find packager and get this reviewed 13:51:11 #action cschaller/mclasen to find a packager for the gpu governor tool thing 13:51:20 anything else for open floor ? 13:52:13 if not, then 13:52:16 #endmeeting