13:00:45 <mclasen> #startmeeting silverblue
13:00:45 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep  3 13:00:45 2018 UTC.
13:00:45 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:00:45 <zodbot> The chair is mclasen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:00:45 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:00:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'silverblue'
13:00:52 <mclasen> #topic roll call
13:00:57 <kalev> morning
13:01:05 <sanja> .hello2
13:01:06 <zodbot> sanja: sanja 'Sanja Bonic' <sanja@redhat.com>
13:01:09 <mclasen> hey kalev!
13:01:13 <ksinny> .hello sinnykumari
13:01:14 <zodbot> ksinny: sinnykumari 'Sinny Kumari' <ksinny@gmail.com>
13:01:19 <sanja> Hi everyone!
13:01:32 <mclasen> might be light attendance today. Its the rare us-only vacation day...
13:03:02 <misc> o/
13:03:10 <misc> .hello2
13:03:11 <zodbot> misc: misc 'None' <misc@zarb.org>
13:04:04 <rishi> .hello2
13:04:08 <zodbot> rishi: rishi 'Debarshi Ray' <debarshir@redhat.com>
13:04:19 <juhp> .hello2 petersen
13:04:20 <zodbot> juhp: Sorry, but you don't exist
13:04:34 <rishi> :)
13:04:40 <mclasen> ok, some folks are here :)
13:04:50 <mclasen> lets start by collecting agenda topics
13:04:53 <juhp> another shock ;)
13:05:03 <mclasen> :)
13:05:14 <mclasen> I have one item in pagure thats marked as meeting
13:05:32 <juhp> .hello2
13:05:33 <zodbot> juhp: Sorry, but you don't exist
13:05:47 <mclasen> since we have kalev back, we could discuss the state of gnome-software vs rpm-ostree for f29
13:06:10 <mclasen> and since debarshi is here, we could discuss the state of toolbox containers for f29
13:06:14 <mclasen> anything else ?
13:06:19 <juhp> great
13:06:54 <ksinny> I wanted to discuss F29 Silverblue Test Day, we have a ticket opened for it
13:07:00 <sanja> not for me for now
13:07:20 <mclasen> oh, right. test day
13:07:28 * mclasen adds that to the agenda
13:07:36 <mclasen> lets get started then
13:07:59 <mclasen> #topic yelp in silverblue, https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issue/31
13:08:26 <mclasen> somebody pointed out that we dropped yelp, with a bunch of other applications
13:08:54 <kalev> oh, how did that happen? did it get dropped from regular workstation or just from silverblue?
13:08:54 <mclasen> which is not a problem for flatpaked apps from flathub, since yelp is in the runtime, so their help works
13:09:20 <mclasen> there was a bunch of apps dropped (there's a discussion about it on discourse)
13:09:24 <mclasen> let me find that
13:09:55 <mclasen> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/changes-in-fedora-silverblue-29/325/28
13:10:07 <mclasen> well, drop the /28 at the end
13:10:50 * kalev nods.
13:11:17 <mclasen> I think we can get all of those apps built as flatpaks in koji, since owen is going to unveil his flatpak build support this week
13:11:45 <mclasen> the reason that yelp was called out in the ticket is that we need it for the initial-setup welcome part
13:11:57 <mclasen> after the first login
13:12:19 <kalev> oh wow, flatpak build support this week? awesome stuff
13:12:20 <mclasen> and since we won't have preinstalled flatpaks in f29, building it as a flatpak is not going to fix this case
13:12:43 <mclasen> #info building flatpaks in koji is expected to start this week
13:13:02 <mclasen> so I would suggest that we should put yelp back in the base image for f29
13:13:27 * kalev agrees.
13:13:33 <misc> +1
13:13:48 <ksinny> +1
13:13:53 <rishi> +1 (can I vote?)
13:14:02 <sanja> +1
13:14:20 <mclasen> +1
13:14:38 <mclasen> alright, I think thats a clear vote
13:14:53 <mclasen> now, how do I record that for the minutes
13:14:59 * mclasen looks for the cheat sheet
13:15:18 <juhp> +1
13:15:29 <mclasen> #agreed We will put yelp back in the base image for F29
13:16:15 <mclasen> #action mclasen will write the patch to put it back
13:16:40 <mclasen> #topic test day for silverblue
13:17:04 <mclasen> ksinny: what timeframe are we looking at ?
13:17:09 <ksinny> #link https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issue/28
13:17:40 <ksinny> mclasen: I think it will nice to have it soon after F29 Beta release
13:18:13 <ksinny> But, it's totatlly upon when Silverblue community memebers will be free
13:18:24 <mclasen> so... September 20 or so ? thats a thursday
13:19:00 <mclasen> that would be my suggestion
13:19:16 <kalev> +1 from me, if it works for QA
13:19:30 <rishi> 20th September works for me too.
13:19:42 <rishi> I am not very particular.
13:19:56 <ksinny> Works for me as well
13:19:57 <mclasen> right, we should perhaps confirm with qa
13:20:24 <paragan> Are those 4 test cases enough or they can be increased now?
13:20:32 <ksinny> yeah, if we are fine with 20th Septemeber then I will drop a comment to QA ticket
13:20:47 <mclasen> paragan: where are the test cases ?
13:20:54 <paragan> http://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/39
13:21:01 <paragan> Atomic Workstation
13:21:03 <mclasen> I'm sure we can add a few more between now and September 20
13:21:15 <ksinny> Yeah, that will be great
13:21:45 <ksinny> mclasen: can we have all new tests we want to get tested listed in our Test day link?
13:22:02 <mclasen> ksinny: will you announce the test day when the date is finalized ?
13:22:06 <ksinny> Later, QA can form proper Test Case with that
13:22:28 <mclasen> #link http://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/39
13:22:57 <mclasen> whats the best place to collect test case input, the test day ticket ?
13:23:37 <ksinny> mclasen: Sure, I can work on writing a Fedora Magazine article for Silverblue Test Day. Will first ask in silverblue-apac meeting to see if anyone else wanted to pick it
13:23:53 <mclasen> excellent, thanks!
13:24:11 <mclasen> #action ksinny will publicize the silverblue test day for (tentatively) September 20
13:24:39 <mclasen> #topic status of rpm-ostree support in gnome-software for Fedora 29
13:24:48 <mclasen> kalev: putting you on the spot on your first day back :)
13:25:28 <kalev> eeks :)
13:26:42 <kalev> soooo, I have a WIP item that is adding package layering support to gnome-software
13:27:32 <kalev> before I went away, I was playing with some rpm-ostreed patches to add the needed dbus API to make it possible
13:27:38 <mclasen> how close are you to having that working ?
13:28:31 <kalev> I think it should be fairly close, pretty sure this should be working before F29 enters the freezes at least
13:28:42 <mclasen> ah, nice
13:28:59 <mclasen> the main place where this will show up in the ui is add-ons, I think ?
13:29:21 <mclasen> do we have the metadata we need to populate the ui for that ?
13:29:56 <kalev> the most visible thing that should change is that the front page gets back to fully functional, with categories showing up and all that
13:30:23 <kalev> that's nonfunctional out of box right now because we don't show up anything that can be layered
13:30:24 <mclasen> oh, is that related to package layering ?
13:30:26 <kalev> yeah
13:30:51 <kalev> it's all empty there because there are no apps to show up
13:30:53 <misc> do we want to have package layering on the front page ?
13:31:04 <mclasen> that would be rpm-packaged apps showing up again?
13:31:09 * kalev nods.
13:31:42 <mclasen> could send the wrong message, and make everybody create big layers ?
13:32:00 <kalev> I think we need to try to do something for the next cycle where flatpak souces get preferred treatment on the front page
13:32:04 <kalev> Allan had some ideas for that
13:32:29 <kalev> but at this stage, I think anything is better than empty front page :)
13:32:29 <sanja> Can we make an informational layover screen that explains and allows to tick a checkbox to enable flatpak and show the apps to layer but yu gotta click it away first and enable it?
13:32:45 <mclasen> right. better treatment of multiple sources for the same app is on my wishlist for next cylce
13:33:16 <kalev> sanja: I think this is dependant on getting flatpaks built in Fedora
13:33:32 <kalev> once we have that, we can add them either by default or opt-in or whatever
13:33:37 <mclasen> hopefully, this week
13:34:04 <misc> also, layering requires a reboot to have a package present, or use the livefs feature, so the UX will ask to restart I guess ?
13:34:05 <sanja> ok
13:34:09 <mclasen> I am not sure if owen was comfortable with enabling the registry as source by default
13:34:14 <sanja> why not?
13:34:20 <mclasen> but it is a good thing to add to the test day testcases
13:34:45 <mclasen> just because its all new, and using less tested code paths in flatpak (oci...)
13:34:48 <misc> also, we need to have packages as flatpak once they are possible to create, not sure if we have a plan for that
13:34:56 <mclasen> but if we find it works, we should enable it
13:36:04 <mclasen> kalev: anything else to add to rpm-ostree status ? what about rebases ?
13:36:14 * sanja has to go to school pickup - if there's any action items for me, let me know afterwards. Bye for now!
13:36:21 <mclasen> bye, sanja
13:37:54 <kalev> mclasen: I hooked up distro upgrade support in gnome-software before I left, so that it uses the same metadata as regular distro upgrades
13:38:21 <mclasen> ok. I forget - is this something we can test before f29 is released, or do we lack metadata for that ?
13:38:23 <kalev> and then tries to rebase to a hardcoded ostree branch name, just replacing the distro number in there
13:38:53 <kalev> this needs latest gnome-software for F28. I can try setting up a COPR for that.
13:39:06 <mclasen> it would be nice if we could figure out a way to make it testable for the test day
13:39:12 * kalev nods.
13:39:29 <mclasen> can you look at that ?
13:39:32 <kalev> sure, will do
13:39:52 <mclasen> #action kalev will look at making rebase in gnome-software testable for the test day
13:40:31 <mclasen> #info kalev hopes to have package layering working in gnome-software in  time for the final freeze
13:40:53 <mclasen> #topic toolbox containers
13:40:58 * rishi waves
13:41:11 <mclasen> rishi: want to give a quick update ?
13:41:40 <rishi> So, I put up a Git repo for the toolbox script and Dockerfile: https://github.com/debarshiray/fedora-toolbox
13:42:32 <mclasen> #info toolbox container materials here: https://github.com/debarshiray/fedora-toolbox
13:42:35 <rishi> We are still ironing out the bugs in rootless podman. eg., it currently fails to map the UID from the host to the container.
13:43:02 <rishi> But you can create the container, enter it and get a shell.
13:43:34 <mclasen> have you gotten some people to try it out ?
13:43:41 <mclasen> I did
13:43:53 <rishi> Hopefully, we will have some kind of fedora-toolbox image in the Fedora registry as the base for creating these containers.
13:44:01 <rishi> That's tracked here: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/7698
13:44:37 <rishi> Although, I have a feeling that the releng ticket has gotten derailed a bit.
13:44:55 <rishi> mclasen: misc already sent a pull request!
13:45:05 <mclasen> misc: +1
13:45:18 <rishi> But I think it can only realistically be advertised once the UID mapping is fixed.
13:45:38 <rishi> eg., running rootless, one can't even 'sudo dnf ...' inside the toolbox, which is a bummer.
13:46:06 <mclasen> but the sudo approach works for now ?
13:46:40 <rishi> There's also a thread about reviewing the Dockerfile for creating the base toolbox image: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/an-image-for-a-fedora-toolbox-container/286/5
13:46:44 <rishi> Comments welcome, etc..
13:47:05 <rishi> mclasen: Yes, the sudo approach works for now, but that's not so easy to set up. :/
13:47:50 <rishi> Good thing is that gscrivano is already chasing down the runc bug that prevents us from moving forward with the UID mapping: https://github.com/opencontainers/runc/pull/1862#issuecomment-417784925
13:48:05 <mclasen> that is great news
13:48:59 <mclasen> so do you envision we will get this on people's systems ?
13:49:07 <rishi> In short, we found that it works with 'podman run', so that validates our approach, but due to various details it breaks with 'podman create' and 'podman exec', which is what the toolbox uses.
13:49:13 <mclasen> I guess the ultimate goal would be to have this preinstalled somehow ?
13:49:24 <rishi> mclasen: Yes, I am hopeful.
13:49:41 <rishi> I guess it will be part of the base image? Like podman, buildah, etc..
13:49:54 <mclasen> is there going to be a package that we need on the host ?
13:50:19 <rishi> Yes, we do. RPMs are our currency, so ... :)
13:50:30 <rishi> Although, I am not sure about the naming.
13:50:48 <mclasen> whats the current candidate ?
13:51:10 <rishi> It's fedora-toolbox.git at the moment. But I am not attached to it or anything.
13:51:14 <rishi> When we discussed toolbox containers with the Fedora CoreOS gang, there was a suggestion ...
13:51:59 <rishi> ... to fork off coreos/toolbox.git and work on that, but coreos/toolbox.git has a bunch stuff around governance, etc. which I wasn't sure what to do about.
13:52:13 <rishi> So I threw in fedora-toolbox to avoid too much bikeshedding.
13:52:30 <mclasen> seems fine to me, fwiw
13:52:56 <rishi> Although, fedora-toolbox does seem to assume that both Silverblue and Fedora CoreOS will use the same thing, because it takes over the "fedora" namespace.
13:53:40 <juhp> Is it intended for both or ?
13:53:47 <rishi> For those reading along, here's some context from the Fedora CoreOS side of the issue: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/38
13:53:58 <rishi> juhp: Hopefully/ideally, yes.
13:54:00 <mclasen> we discussed that a bit in the coreos meeting last week
13:54:04 <juhp> okay
13:54:16 <rishi> But CoreOS' requirements are a bit different from ours.
13:54:17 <mclasen> seems we have somewhat different use cases, but quite a bit of overlap too
13:54:25 <rishi> Yeah.
13:54:38 * mclasen needs to run to the next meeting... some vacation day :(
13:54:59 <rishi> My understanding  is that we will use the same underlying bits - podman, buildah, etc..
13:55:22 <rishi> But, for example, CoreOS is fine with asking the operator to type in the root password to get the container ...
13:55:31 <mclasen> I'll end this meeting, and we can all move to #silverblue to continue chatting ?
13:55:43 <rishi> ... which is not ideal if we want people to get a toolbox prompt in Silverblue easily.
13:55:45 <mclasen> thanks for the update, rishi!
13:55:52 <rishi> mclasen: Yes, sure!
13:55:55 <mclasen> #endmeeting