13:02:38 <sanja> #startmeeting silverblue
13:02:39 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Sep 17 13:02:38 2018 UTC.
13:02:39 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:02:39 <zodbot> The chair is sanja. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:02:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:02:39 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'silverblue'
13:02:56 <sanja> .hello2
13:02:57 <zodbot> sanja: sanja 'Sanja Bonic' <sanja@redhat.com>
13:03:24 <sadin> .hello
13:03:24 <zodbot> sadin: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
13:03:26 <zbyszek> I'm here just as a guest, but my recommendation would be to avoid manual work like that, and just post a link to https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/sresults/?group_id=silverblue&type=team
13:03:35 <rishi> .hello
13:03:35 <zodbot> rishi: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
13:03:44 <rishi> .hello2
13:03:45 <zodbot> rishi: rishi 'Debarshi Ray' <debarshir@redhat.com>
13:03:51 <sadin> .hello2
13:03:53 <sanja> mmmh I like that @zbyszek
13:03:54 <zodbot> sadin: sadin 'Zachary Snyder' <sadin.fpo@gmail.com>
13:04:25 <sanja> #topic roll call
13:04:37 <otaylor> .hrllo otaylor
13:04:42 <ksinny> .hello sinnykumari
13:04:43 <otaylor> .hello otaylor
13:04:43 <zodbot> ksinny: sinnykumari 'Sinny Kumari' <ksinny@gmail.com>
13:04:45 <zodbot> otaylor: otaylor 'Owen Taylor' <otaylor@redhat.com>
13:05:05 <aday> .hello aday
13:05:06 <zodbot> aday: aday 'None' <aday@redhat.com>
13:05:10 <aday> boo
13:05:12 <aday> i lose
13:05:25 <sanja> Ok, what's on the agenda for today?
13:06:03 <sadin> Not sure, twitter told me to be here :)
13:06:16 <zbyszek> I was hoping to get some answers for https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1989
13:06:19 <zbyszek> .fesco 1989
13:06:21 <zodbot> zbyszek: Issue #1989: Decide status of "Rename Atomic Workstation to Silverblue" change - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1989
13:07:41 <sanja> mclasen is in meetings today, otaylor any update?
13:08:38 <sanja> I don't have a status on whether it's done
13:08:40 <sanja> let me ping mclasen
13:08:41 <otaylor> zbyszek: Unfortunately, I dropped the ball on following up with mclasen :-(
13:08:49 <juhp> .hello petersen
13:08:50 <zodbot> juhp: petersen 'Jens Petersen' <petersen@redhat.com>
13:08:58 <mclasen> its partially done
13:09:22 <mclasen> there's definitively pieces that are left
13:09:35 <zbyszek> So... the default resolution that we seem to be moving forward is "leave things as they are".
13:09:49 <sanja> well no
13:09:56 <sanja> if there is any mention of fedora atomic workstation still
13:10:00 <sanja> can't we get that out?
13:10:06 <sanja> what's the pieces that are left?
13:10:17 <mclasen> I think whats missing is the /etc/os-release piece, for example
13:10:18 <otaylor> mclasen: Do you think you'll have time over the next day or so to update the ticket with the exact status -what is needed to finish it before the final release?
13:10:23 <mclasen> that still says "Workstation"
13:10:30 <mclasen> I'll look this afternoon
13:10:48 <zbyszek> mclasen: we really need this before the FESCo meeting today at 15:00 UTC
13:10:57 <sanja> which is in < 1 hour
13:10:58 <mclasen> I'll do my best
13:11:05 <mclasen> oh, then maybe not
13:11:13 <mclasen> I am in interviews for another 2 hours
13:11:24 * cverna is around
13:11:26 <sanja> zbyszek what exactly is happening on your side
13:11:36 <sgallagh> sanja: just under two hours, not one
13:11:55 <zbyszek> Well, there is no clarity what has been done, and what needs to be done.
13:11:58 <sanja> hmmm, I thought I'm in UTC, might be UTC+1 now with summertime, it's confusing
13:12:04 <sanja> or -1
13:12:14 <sanja> Ok, tech-wise or content-wise?
13:12:16 <zbyszek> The fesco meeting is 2h later than this one.
13:12:30 <zbyszek> Both.
13:12:41 <mclasen> things that are done: refs in the repo are renamed, the iso is renamed
13:14:57 <sanja> zbyszek what exactly happens after this issue is decide upon?
13:15:57 <zbyszek> sanja: we are trying to figure out if there's going to be anything broken when GA happens, and if yes, if we need to back some changes out.
13:16:16 <zbyszek> Alternatively, if it's all done, we'd like a confirmation.
13:16:43 <zbyszek> The biggest problem is lack of clarify what the list of things that need to happen for this to be complete is.
13:16:46 <sanja> ok so let's say we tell you it's all done and fix things this week on those parts where it's not
13:16:52 <sanja> yeah i don't have that list either
13:16:53 <otaylor> zbyszek: I think the status is more like: it's not all done, but it's not broken, and reverting to FAW wouldn't make sense
13:17:04 <sanja> no definitely not, otaylor +1
13:17:24 <zbyszek> OK.
13:17:29 <zbyszek> I'll go with that.
13:17:58 <otaylor> zbyszek: hopefully mclasen will be able to identify if there are particular pieces that are high impact that we need to prioritize getting done before GA
13:17:59 <zbyszek> I don't want to drag this out, but I'd apperciate if otaylor or mclasen could put a short summary in #1989 later on.
13:18:13 <mclasen> will do
13:18:18 <zbyszek> thanks!
13:18:20 <sanja> ok, then the topic with the missing help is fixed by now?
13:18:24 <sanja> it's still tagged with meeting
13:18:31 <sanja> https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issue/31
13:19:16 <sanja> I have 2 more topics after that, one is contributions as seen on Twitter today and the other is OKD as suggested by misc
13:20:05 <sanja> no comments, removing meeting tag, and checking out that PR linked later
13:20:09 <sanja> #topic contributions
13:20:43 <sanja> If we have volunteers for contributions, we need a list of those things that need to be fixed
13:20:51 <sanja> that are somewhat more helpful than the issues on pagure
13:21:13 <sanja> https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issues
13:21:29 * sadin waves
13:21:31 * rishi looks up the Twitter handle
13:21:37 <sadin> where might I be of help?
13:21:39 <sanja> Hi sadin!
13:21:49 <sanja> that's exactly what we'll try to figure out now, thanks for coming
13:22:05 <sadin> No worries, and np!
13:22:11 <sanja> Sometimes we have people asking where and how to contribute which is great but we don't really have much in place in terms of friendliness for that
13:22:21 <sanja> so let's say we'll start that now
13:22:36 <sadin> cool
13:22:50 <sanja> for one we could introduce tags "newcomer-friendly" or something shorter where the issues obviously need to be described better so newcomers can pick it up
13:23:40 * cverna like the good-first-issue or help-wanted tags
13:23:42 <sanja> which means one of us (otaylor, mclasen preferably since they know it best) can go through the issues and add a tag "newcomer" or something and edit the issues to be more descriptive, on the website side we need clearer links and content (my responsibility to have that and I'll get to it this week)
13:23:55 <sanja> yeah help-wanted or good-first-issue sounds good
13:24:12 <sanja> sadin which wording would you prefer since you'd basically be the one seeing that?
13:24:15 <cverna> that's what is recommended on github if I am not mistaken
13:24:18 <sanja> is it coding you want to help with, website stuff, content?
13:24:48 <sanja> we need it all ;)
13:25:28 <sadin> When looking for stuff to do, ive usually seen projecs use good-first-issue
13:26:04 <sadin> either works for me really, but ive seen that done more prominently
13:26:20 <sanja> Ok, let's go with that then. I'll talk to mclasen so we can add those tags by tomorrow latest - if otaylor or someone else can help introduce those, please do so.
13:26:33 <sanja> But it's not just adding the tag, also explaining the issues more and where exactly to go to fix them
13:26:49 <rishi> This seems like an ideal newcomer candidate: https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issue/39
13:26:57 <rishi> Although it's probably already fixed.
13:27:39 <sadin> sanja Im a python developer and a web developer at work so I could help in those areas, Id like to become more familar with low level programming so im teaching myself C
13:28:00 <sadin> I dont mind helping with docs as well
13:29:03 <sanja> I've just added the tag as a tag to use in the repo. Also, I'll change all links to https://pagure.io/fedora-silverblue and migrate the issues over, just as information
13:29:09 <sanja> if anyone is against that, please say it now
13:29:17 <sanja> i'll also announce it on twitter and discourse, not just this meeting
13:29:29 <rishi> https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issue/1 is another one.
13:29:34 <sanja> but it makes more sense - the website will also move over to Pagure since we're using that for issues all the time
13:29:56 <sanja> sadin thanks - that's cool, then Silverblue makes sense as there's high and low level things to help with
13:30:27 <sadin> awesome
13:30:43 <sanja> sadin, the docs are on https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/silverblue and use AsciiDoc
13:31:10 <sanja> the website itself will be moved to Pagure and is currently on GitHub but it uses raw HTML and a Go server
13:32:01 <sanja> alternatively we make it a blog and use GitHub pages
13:32:03 <sanja> opinions
13:32:04 <sanja> ?
13:32:41 <sadin> If its mostly text docs and links using some sort of static site would be nice
13:32:44 <sadin> for speed
13:32:52 <sanja> that's what's happening right now yeah
13:33:02 <sanja> so rishi has linked this https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issue/1 as a good entry issue
13:33:11 <sadin> but Id also say most of fedoras stuff is being moved to pagure
13:33:26 <sanja> but we'd need information on where to add and what not - although maybe you can figure that out sadin (I don't know either, would search it as well)
13:33:38 <rishi> sanja: This sounds like something between the people making the website and those running the infra' for it. As in the doers get to decide sort of thing. :)
13:33:39 <sanja> so if you wanna take that over as your first issue, it should be doable
13:33:53 <sanja> rishi sounds good :P I'm all for that strategy
13:34:16 <sadin> rishi++
13:34:17 <zodbot> sadin: Karma for rishi changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:34:27 <sanja> rishi++, sadin++
13:34:27 <zodbot> sanja: Karma for sadin changed to 4 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:34:46 <sadin> sanja the media writer issue I could certainly pick up
13:34:48 * rishi grabs a cookie
13:34:51 <sanja> ok, sadin if you need more pointers, let me know via DM, moving on to next topic, sounds great
13:35:00 <sanja> and thanks :)
13:35:08 <sanja> misc around?
13:35:12 <misc> sanja: kinda
13:35:21 <sanja> ok let me link what you wrote on the forums
13:35:38 <sanja> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/okd-on-silverblue-by-default/396
13:36:44 <sanja> quick summary: add okd as default and use that for pet containers etc
13:36:57 <sanja> anyone have any opinion yet or want to digest and talk about it next meeting?
13:37:24 <sanja> #topic okd by default
13:37:40 * rishi clicks that link
13:40:04 <sanja> waiting for 2 more mins and moving on to open floor
13:41:05 * dustymabe reads scrollback
13:41:15 * otaylor thinks that okd by default is a *big* stretch for newcomers, not at all a good fit for all development workflows (not everything is a server app), and oc cluster-up seems to have a question mark over its future
13:41:59 <otaylor> I don't think it's the answer to the pet container question, especially since kubernetes is very much about non-pet-containers
13:42:11 <sanja> misc any comments on that?
13:42:27 <misc> well, the point is not about kubernetes to deploy
13:42:33 <misc> but okd to build
13:42:56 <misc> cause kubernete do not do the build, so yes, kube is out of question, cf what I said at the end of the post
13:43:28 <otaylor> I don't see how okd helps with building  - s2i is even more just a corner of what people will want to do with Silverblue
13:43:29 <misc> and for "not all is server," for sure, but then we can also do nothing, because for whatever initiative proposed, there will always be something which is outside
13:43:53 <misc> otaylor: okd to build the per container automatically
13:43:58 <misc> the s2i is just a bonus
13:44:10 <otaylor> That doesn't mean we can't make things super-okd/kubernetes/s2i integrated, for where they are a good fit
13:44:40 <misc> cause again, if we decide to let people build the per container like a regular system, we can as well just get a regular system
13:44:49 <otaylor> misc: If your pet container is really pet, then you don't want it rebuilt automatically, since what you rae keeping as a pet is the *container* not the imgae
13:45:07 <misc> otaylor: true, there is some limit
13:46:22 <dustymabe> misc: re: pet containers.. i've been thinking of making something like vagrant, but for pet containers
13:46:25 <otaylor> misc: I might have to see some "day in a life" story with an openshift centric setup, but it just seems very heavyweight to me (as you say, when you have openshift running, it's constantly taking 10-20% of your cpu - we do need silverblue to work on battery!)
13:46:48 <otaylor> maybe rishi should present on his toolbox work at the next meeting?
13:47:06 <misc> otaylor: yeah, I would love to get a way to have openshift tuned to be less battery heavy
13:47:24 <misc> and while not everybody will use it, some people will and for those, that's a issue :/
13:47:40 <misc> so I kinda ssume the bug should be fixed (how, i do not know)
13:47:44 <aday> dustymabe, how would that be different from downloading a pre-made image?
13:48:12 <otaylor> misc: Probably step 1 would be seeing if minishift has the same issue there as oc cluster up, or whether things have been tuned differently
13:48:15 <dustymabe> aday: basically it can use a premade image or take a base image and customize it
13:48:27 <rishi> otaylor: I already did introduce at the last meeting.
13:48:30 <misc> otaylor: that's kinda default kubernetes setup
13:48:32 <dustymabe> either way, when you 'up' in a directroy you get consistent behavior
13:48:42 <rishi> https://github.com/debarshiray/fedora-toolbox, etc..
13:49:21 <otaylor> rishi: last meeting was during a public holiday here, missed it
13:49:28 <otaylor> rishi: but great! :-)
13:49:36 <rishi> otaylor: Oh, yes, I recall.
13:49:58 <sanja> Is there a way to link only this part of the discussion to the post on Discourse? It'd be a shame if this discussion got lost in meeting logs most people will never read as opposed to Discourse. We're clearly not done but the points here are really important.
13:49:59 <sanja> Thanks for the link again, rishi!
13:50:16 <misc> we can discuss on discourse then :p
13:50:42 <sanja> Ok, good it's introduced here, though and we have some more viewpoints.
13:50:57 <sanja> Moving on to open floor unless someone wants to add anything?
13:50:59 <otaylor> dustymabe: I think everybody has ideas about that, with toolbox, we're cutting off the smallest corner of the pet container space initially, but it's clear that you want something more for development - and eventually get get into docker-compose / kurbernetes land...
13:51:02 <dustymabe> yeah I'll add a comment to the discourse
13:51:28 <sanja> I definitely don't want to get into docker anything
13:51:45 <otaylor> sanja: "podman-compose" but that's vaporware
13:51:50 <sanja> :D
13:52:18 <sanja> ok, open floor, this discussion continues on discourse where it's more available to others
13:52:20 <aday> dustymabe, otaylor: right, the toolbox was intended to solve a very specific well-defined problem. if we go further we need to figure out how it aligns with the rest of the container story
13:53:19 <sanja> #topic open floor
13:53:26 * ksinny has one
13:53:36 <sanja> Go ahead, Sinny
13:53:45 <ksinny> We have F29 Silveblue test Day comming up on 20th September(Thursday)
13:53:55 * sadin cheers
13:53:57 <ksinny> #link http://testdays.fedorainfracloud.org/events/47
13:54:11 <ksinny> Test wiki page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2018-09-20_Silverblue_Testday
13:54:53 <ksinny> It seems people have already started filling up test results
13:54:54 <ksinny> Can we get Test cases reviewed and have addition test cases added (if there are any)?
13:55:08 <ksinny> s/addition/additional/
13:57:22 <ksinny> It doesn't need to happen right now, but we need it before Test Day. If we have some test cases to add, get them listed at https://pagure.io/teamsilverblue/issue/28 and I will co-ordinate with QA to get it added
13:57:40 <sanja> Ok, Sinny, I'll ping mclasen also about that.
13:58:09 <ksinny> sure :)
13:58:24 <sanja> Anyone else, otherwise meeting closing in 1 minute?
13:59:02 <sanja> Thanks all for coming!
13:59:07 <rishi> Nothing from me. I just replied to the OKD thread (https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/okd-on-silverblue-by-default/396/3)
13:59:12 <sanja> thanks rishi
13:59:16 <rishi> Thanks for running the show, sanja !
13:59:22 <sadin> thank you sanja!
13:59:29 <sanja> Cheers
13:59:32 <sanja> #endmeeting