14:06:17 <ryanlerch> #startmeeting Workstation WG
14:06:17 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 14 14:06:17 2019 UTC.
14:06:17 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:06:17 <zodbot> The chair is ryanlerch. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:06:17 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:06:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg'
14:06:32 <mcatanzaro> .hello catanzaro
14:06:33 <zodbot> mcatanzaro: catanzaro 'Michael Catanzaro' <mcatanzaro@gnome.org>
14:06:35 <ryanlerch> #topic roll call
14:06:41 <ryanlerch> .hellow ryanlerch
14:06:48 <otaylor> .hello otaylor
14:06:49 <zodbot> otaylor: otaylor 'Owen Taylor' <otaylor@redhat.com>
14:06:56 <mclasen> .hello mclasen
14:06:56 <zodbot> mclasen: mclasen 'Matthias Clasen' <mclasen@redhat.com>
14:07:50 <juhp> .hello petersen
14:07:51 <zodbot> juhp: petersen 'Jens Petersen' <petersen@redhat.com>
14:08:09 <ryanlerch> .hello ryanlerch
14:08:10 <zodbot> ryanlerch: ryanlerch 'Ryan Lerch' <rlerch@redhat.com>
14:08:25 <ryanlerch> that's 5 so far
14:08:33 <ryanlerch> who are we missing?
14:08:51 <mcatanzaro> Rex (meeting chair :)
14:08:52 * cschalle hi
14:08:58 <ryanlerch> stickster ?
14:09:13 <mcatanzaro> stickster said he couldn't make the meeting time.
14:09:17 <ryanlerch> okies
14:09:33 <ryanlerch> mcatanzaro: yeah, its midnight here, so i decided to just start the meeting
14:09:43 <ryanlerch> sorry, was impatient
14:10:02 <ryanlerch> okies, there isonly one ticket with the meeting tag
14:10:06 <otaylor> kalev: around?
14:10:43 <mclasen> cschalle should be here any second
14:11:13 <ryanlerch> #topic issue #45 -- drop workstation install tree
14:11:23 <ryanlerch> #info https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/45
14:13:05 <mclasen> anything to say there ?
14:13:06 <kalev> hello
14:13:17 <mclasen> I don't think we need to do anything there
14:13:55 * kalev nods.
14:14:22 <otaylor> It was never voted on, but no dissenting voices - we clearly don't need the Workstation install tree, and if the netinstall ISO for the workstation vanishes as a side effect of removing it, I don't think we care
14:14:39 <mcatanzaro> ryanlerch: Thanks for keeping things moving :)
14:14:42 <juhp> So the tree will be removed?
14:14:57 <mcatanzaro> What's an install tree? :P
14:15:16 <juhp> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/development/rawhide/Workstation/x86_64/os/
14:16:12 <kalev> mcatanzaro: it's a directory with all the rpms that are in a Workstation install
14:16:20 <juhp> I believe that is the x86_64 tree
14:17:27 <ryanlerch> so nothing to discuss really on this one?
14:17:54 <mclasen> no
14:18:07 <otaylor> I don't think so, somone should think about the question "if I wanted to kickstart Fedora workstation, to get something identical the Live CD install, where do I go to find docs about how to do that"
14:18:19 <ryanlerch> okies, removing the meeting tag from it
14:19:29 <juhp> otaylor: right
14:19:45 <ryanlerch> okies, nothing else is tagged meeting
14:20:19 <mclasen> cschalle: do we have an update on openh264 ?
14:21:05 <ryanlerch> mclasen: this one? https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/84
14:21:21 <cschalle> mclasen, yes, I talked to Centricular last week. The required patches to get Main/High support should be submitted in final form to Cisco within two weeks, and then hopefully there will be a new upstream release shortly afterwards
14:21:53 <mclasen> ryanlerch: yes, that was the one that triggered my question
14:21:59 <ryanlerch> #topic issue #84 - openh264 codecs
14:22:09 <ryanlerch> #info https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/84
14:22:37 <cschalle> I will update the ticket
14:23:10 <ryanlerch> thanks cschalle !
14:23:23 <ryanlerch> anyone else have a ticket or tpoic to bring up?
14:23:28 <ryanlerch> *topic
14:25:18 <mclasen> otaylor: do you have an update on flatpaks ? did we get any more built ?
14:27:37 <otaylor> mclasen: We have not gotten any more built (ok, I added one more myself), I've been working some on a) flatpak-common - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flatpak:Easy now shows what packages are in flatpak-common  b) moving flatpaks to their own namespace to avoid having to file manual releng tickets (https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/7496)
14:28:28 <otaylor> I'm planning to get together with some of the Red Hat desktop folks in Brno before devconf to help them work on flatpak'ing their packages
14:29:14 <mclasen> alright
14:29:48 <mcatanzaro> Oh wow, MP4 support for OpenH264 by way of Centricular? Thanks for funding it cschalle!
14:30:39 <mcatanzaro> But I seem to recall fdk-aac was ruled nonfree by FSF, so what's the status there? Are we out of luck for audio?
14:30:46 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, well it is funded in part by Red Hat, in part by Endless and in part by Cisco; and also Centricular are doing it at a very reasonable rate so they deserve credit for that too
14:31:23 <mcatanzaro> Ah wait: fdk-aac was ruled free by GPL incompatible, right?
14:31:32 <mcatanzaro> So we can't put it into a GStreamer plugin, which sucks
14:32:15 <mcatanzaro> (If you put it into a GStreamer plugin, it will get loaded by GPL applications, of course)
14:33:06 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, well it is a little more nuanced by that. Yes, on the face of it the text is not GPL friendly, but since there are no patents involved anymore it is actually compatible (meaning that a statement of no patent grant and a statement of full patent grant actually means the same when there are zero patents involved)
14:33:31 <cschalle> but we are having discussions about how to commmunicate that etc.
14:33:38 <mcatanzaro> Patents affected GPL compatibility???
14:34:14 <cschalle> yes, because at least with GPL3 there is a requirement for explicit patent grant while the fdk-aac license and an explicit non-patent grant
14:34:41 <cschalle> but of course if there are no longer any patents to be granted those clauses are moot
14:34:53 <mcatanzaro> But it's AAC, of course there are patents
14:35:22 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, not anymore (at least not for the versions of AAC we look to support), and expired patents can not be granted
14:35:40 <cschalle> I even have a letter from Via licensing clearly stating that the AAC low complexity patents have all expired
14:36:12 <mcatanzaro> "the versions of AAC we look to support" == "the versions of AAC used by MP4" ?
14:37:08 <cschalle> mcatanzaro, the versions supported by the source tarball that Wim produced, which yes will support most AAC used by MP4
14:37:37 <mcatanzaro> Amazing!
14:37:39 <mcatanzaro> But what does "most" mean? :(
14:38:13 <cschalle> the problem with AAC (and H264) for that matter is that they are continually evolving standards so there is always a chance you meet a file you can't support, for H264 for instance we do not support the SVC version of the codec for instance
14:38:58 <cschalle> so what we have done is to go back far enough in time to ensure all patents have expired and then support that, which from what we can tell covers 99% of files out there, but of course I am sure someone will find a file using a AAC version we don't support and file a bug :)
14:40:29 <cschalle> in theory I guess even Mp3 got that issue as there was this thing called Mp3 pro Frauenhoffer tried to push for a while, but I have never seen such a file in reality
14:44:05 <cschalle> luckily though the GStreamer capabilities descriptions should have the granularity needed to describe things, so if you do hit a file we can't support it should fail with a proper message and even allow you to install any other AAC plugin you might be able to find if they do support it
14:44:57 <cschalle> Are we done? I got another meeting 'waiting' for me :)
14:46:33 <juhp> Lot of tickets open... we should maybe do some cleanup?
14:47:15 <juhp> I guess we could close https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/74 (f29 talking points)
14:52:13 <mcatanzaro> Yeah :P
15:06:04 <juhp> end the meeting?
15:09:36 <mclasen> yes
15:09:51 <juhp> #chair
15:10:03 <juhp> ryanlerch: still there?
15:11:51 <juhp> #endmeeting
15:11:53 <juhp> ...
15:18:05 <mclasen> late for him...
15:19:26 <juhp> yes\p
15:21:06 <nirik> #endmeeting