13:06:04 <mcatanzaro> #startmeeting workstation_wg
13:06:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Apr 22 13:06:04 2019 UTC.
13:06:05 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
13:06:05 <zodbot> The chair is mcatanzaro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:06:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:06:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg'
13:06:11 <mcatanzaro> #meetingname Workstation WG
13:06:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg'
13:06:18 <petersen> mcatanzaro: thanks
13:06:28 * mcatanzaro wonders if he got the commands backwards
13:06:31 <mcatanzaro> #topic Roll call
13:06:34 <mcatanzaro> .hello catanzaro
13:06:34 <zodbot> mcatanzaro: catanzaro 'Michael Catanzaro' <mcatanzaro@gnome.org>
13:06:50 <petersen> .hello2
13:06:51 <zodbot> petersen: petersen 'Jens Petersen' <petersen@redhat.com>
13:07:15 <mcatanzaro> I see we have cschalle... do we have ryanlerch?
13:07:23 * cschalle hi
13:07:26 <mcatanzaro> I see stickster is at least in the room
13:08:47 <bcotton> .hello2
13:08:48 <zodbot> bcotton: bcotton 'Ben Cotton' <bcotton@redhat.com>
13:09:33 * stickster here, is anyone else?
13:10:10 <mcatanzaro> Well we're up to four WG (plus Ben), need one more for quorum
13:11:06 <cschalle> hmm, so maybe no meeting today then
13:11:09 <mcatanzaro> mclasen and kalev are not online at all
13:11:35 <mcatanzaro> owen is on GIMPNet but probably just idling; he sent a mail to call this meeting just last night though
13:11:55 <petersen> Yeah
13:13:18 <petersen> Some people may be away for Easter
13:15:37 <otaylor> Sorry to be late - kid drop off went slowly this morning (electrical trolley lines out of service, roads blocked with depowered trolleybuses)
13:16:16 <mcatanzaro> Trolleys sound fun
13:16:26 <mcatanzaro> Anyway, otaylor makes quorum
13:17:06 <petersen> Just about? :)
13:17:15 <mcatanzaro> And otaylor is today's scheduled chair (and final scheduled chair, the schedule ends today)... want to take over? I liked your email proposal to discuss schedule, meeting time, WG membership after two r esignations...
13:17:38 <mcatanzaro> Oh crap, I miscounted didn't I
13:17:40 <mcatanzaro> We're onlyfour
13:18:13 <mcatanzaro> Yeah I miscounted, I don't think we're going to make quorum today
13:18:22 <petersen> ah no sorry stickster replied :)
13:18:28 <mcatanzaro> stickster! Yes!
13:18:31 <mcatanzaro> That's five
13:18:34 <mcatanzaro> OK, phew :P
13:18:48 <petersen> my bad
13:19:23 <stickster> The EU holiday is the only reason I can be here today... all the people I'd be talking to right now are not working :-)
13:20:25 * mcatanzaro wonders if "Monday after Easter" is really a holiday
13:20:40 <mcatanzaro> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_European_Union <-- so it is
13:21:20 <mcatanzaro> And all the holidays are weird, apparently different cultures have different holidays
13:21:30 <mcatanzaro> "Maundy Thursday" Thursday before Easter...
13:22:41 * stickster looks at clock and wonders if there's an agenda
13:23:06 <otaylor> sorry for lack of preparedness here -
13:23:06 <mcatanzaro> I think we may have briefly lost otaylor :)
13:23:09 <otaylor> https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues?status=Open&tags=meeting
13:23:35 <mcatanzaro> Default disk partitioning can wait until the next meeting
13:23:51 <otaylor> is there anything we need to discuss about mode setting? It seems that was heavily discussed on list
13:23:55 <stickster> Ah, I see above. Well, on the note of schedule/meeting time/membership... I had mentioned in an email to some members (I don't think it was on list) the idea of nominating langdon for the WG
13:24:30 <stickster> I can hold that for later in the meeting if needed.
13:24:41 <mcatanzaro> I didn't follow the nomodeset conversation on list so I don't know what the status there is, but surely it's been handled by adamw and the blocker bug process
13:24:53 <mcatanzaro> schedule/meeting time/membership seems like most important agenda item for now?
13:25:45 * langdon looks around
13:26:00 <otaylor> yeah - but I'm not entirely sure we can resolve the meeting time issue now
13:26:57 <bcotton> mcatanzaro: the modesetting issue hasn't really been resolved. we're dealing with specific bugs through the blocker process, but we'd like more clarity on whether or not the criterion should continue to exist and in what form
13:26:58 <stickster> Let's instead think about membership without regard to fixing the schedule.
13:27:17 <petersen> yes
13:27:20 <stickster> It's not clear whether the schedule is in desperate need of change in the case of moving members around
13:27:26 <mcatanzaro> Meeting time probably has to wait until we have replenished our membership, of course, but we can of course try to find a time that works for our current members
13:27:40 <otaylor> to clarify one thing-  I didn't have a clear sense - did you have a preference between 13:00 Monday or 12:00 Monday - sounds like neither was your favorite :-)
13:27:47 <stickster> mcatanzaro: Are other people chaired here?
13:27:55 <otaylor> (question for mcatanzaro)
13:27:56 <mcatanzaro> otaylor, the rest of us can't see your poll results, I fear, so we don't know whether dropping two members makes it easier to find a time that works for everyone
13:28:01 <stickster> i.e. #chair nick1 nick2 nick3
13:28:08 <mcatanzaro> Oh so, sorry
13:28:12 <otaylor> let me see if there's a public link
13:28:27 <mcatanzaro> #chair otaylor stickster petersen bcotton langdon cschalle
13:28:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton cschalle langdon mcatanzaro otaylor petersen stickster
13:28:30 * mcatanzaro forgot
13:28:33 <stickster> \o/ thanks
13:28:34 <otaylor> http://whenisgood.net/7gh3jsg/results/qsbi72b - can people see that?
13:28:41 <mcatanzaro> *Oh no
13:28:42 <stickster> #meetingname workstation
13:28:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
13:28:52 <mcatanzaro> otaylor: Nope, it's private
13:29:05 <stickster> #topic Clearing up Monday meeting time for the moment
13:29:17 * mcatanzaro prefers Doodle polls, same thing but a bit nicer and everyone can see the results
13:29:35 <mcatanzaro> otaylor: I have another meeting starting... um, right now, so 13:00 Monday isn't the best for me
13:30:01 <mcatanzaro> But on the other hand earlier is harder to wake up for, so I suppose I prefer 13:00 overall
13:30:07 <langdon> mcatanzaro: what tz are you talking in? utc?
13:30:07 <otaylor> OK, try again - I think it's public now
13:30:45 <mcatanzaro> That must be UTC (relative to summer time), probably better to just discuss in Eastern time since meetings are scheduled in Eastern time and hop around relative to UTC
13:31:00 <bcotton> #link http://whenisgood.net/7gh3jsg/results/qsbi72b
13:31:01 <otaylor> that, of course, isn't a fixed property
13:31:11 * stickster notes he is one of the pips in red in both cases, so things get better either way if you disregard me
13:31:26 <bcotton> stickster: i've been doing that for years ;-)
13:31:33 <stickster> eggggggscactly
13:32:08 <mcatanzaro> Ah, my response in the poll was inconsistent with my stated preferences here :P
13:32:22 <otaylor> Basically, all times are bad, some worse than others :-)
13:32:50 <langdon> you need less popular people...
13:33:12 <mcatanzaro> Let's try again with a Doodle poll, that way we have a "if need be" option we can use to mark times we don't want to attend but can if we really must
13:33:19 <mcatanzaro> That might help us find a new time
13:33:29 <mcatanzaro> But let's recruit our two new members first, of course
13:33:30 <stickster> langdon: you're usually commuting/walking during the 8am Eastern hour, IIRC
13:33:43 <stickster> mcatanzaro++
13:33:44 <zodbot> stickster: Karma for catanzaro changed to 1 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:34:23 <langdon> im am not in love w/ 8am eastern.. but can make it work if nec.
13:34:51 <otaylor> OK, in terms of membership, langdon would be, IMO, be a good candidate given time/interest,  other ideas do people have? Does it make sense to put out a call-for-interested people to catch people we're not thinking of?
13:34:52 <stickster> langdon: don't worry about it, you can just use the Doodle poll that mcatanzaro is going to setup
13:35:25 <stickster> Also, I'm not trying to stack the deck against a call for people... just to be clear :-)
13:35:57 <stickster> I just happen to know langdon has a bunch of interests that dovetail extremely closely with those of Workstation WG
13:36:10 <langdon> as an aside, oddly an irc meeting is *least* inclusive if attempting to commute during it :)
13:37:25 <petersen> langdon: haha yeah
13:37:57 * otaylor thinks we should try to keep any meeting participants from being run over by a bus
13:38:02 <mcatanzaro> Regarding exclusivity... while adding langdon to the WG is fine with me, we should probably put out a catch-all with a goal of increasing diversity in the WG, e.g. finding people who (a) don't work for Red Hat or (b) aren't all white men
13:38:06 <langdon> otaylor: +1
13:38:08 <mcatanzaro> *inclusivity
13:38:23 <mcatanzaro> See I get words wrong when trying to do two things at once :P
13:39:02 <langdon> im hoping i would be able to bring the view points of boston uni cs students to the team.. which are definitely more diverse.. but also, i share the sentiment in general
13:39:44 <mcatanzaro> So if we add langdon, that will give us only one more person to meet either goal (a) or (b)
13:39:44 <petersen> It would be good to have a non-Red Hatter to replace rdieter
13:40:29 <petersen> mcatanzaro: +1
13:40:41 <mcatanzaro> We could also go crazy and hold an election, risk breaking up our cabal and meet neither goal xD
13:41:26 <otaylor> I don't know who would vote in an election :-)
13:43:05 <mcatanzaro> chrismurphy has a lot of expertise and would meet goal (a)... but I just thought of his name right now, maybe I should ask people if they would be interested *before* mentioning their names at meetings....
13:43:18 <stickster> Working Groups being democratically elected is only useful if there's a big enough populace for a people's will to be reflected.
13:43:29 <stickster> Not really the case here AFAICT.
13:43:33 <petersen> I think the idea of a call for participation with a bias towards diversity is interesting
13:43:34 <mcatanzaro> desktop@ is a pretty quiet list, yeah
13:43:40 <otaylor> I think an open call might be good - a few ideas I have (don't know if any of these people would be interested - but they have good activity around workstation/silverblue) would be Stephen Snow, Chris Murphy, Sinny Kumari
13:43:56 <stickster> I do agree with the diversity aspect. One way or another we need more diverse inputs included.
13:44:17 <petersen> yes
13:44:18 <stickster> I think langdon's pipeline to BU students is highly valuable for SB/WS
13:44:44 <stickster> because that's definitively a more diverse group than we currently have paying attention on desktop@ for example
13:45:01 <stickster> But would also like to see a non-RH person in a WG seat
13:46:42 <mcatanzaro> otaylor: Do you know those three people well enough to reach out and see if they're interested?
13:47:27 <mcatanzaro> I guess Chris meets goal (a), Sinny (don't know her but she's DuckDuckGo-able) goal (b), not sure about Stephen
13:48:44 <otaylor> I don't particularly know any of them well, but could reach out :-)
13:48:45 <petersen> It wouldn't really hurt to have 3 more members?
13:48:59 <stickster> Having more people isn't a problem :-)
13:49:02 <mcatanzaro> Probably best to have an odd number of people though
13:49:15 * otaylor wonders how many 5-4 votes we've had over the last few years :-)
13:49:23 <stickster> Has Ryan been able to make it regularly? I haven't been here to see
13:49:30 <stickster> otaylor++
13:49:31 <zodbot> stickster: Karma for otaylor changed to 5 (for the current release cycle):  https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any
13:49:31 <mcatanzaro> OK, probably zero close votes, that's true :P
13:49:41 <mcatanzaro> Doesn't ryanlerch show up sometimes?
13:49:47 <petersen> mcatanzaro: he does
13:49:57 <mcatanzaro> But inconsistently :(
13:50:13 <stickster> Nothing wrong with asking him if he's still interested to continue
13:50:15 <otaylor> stickster: He's been more regular than some others, but I think the shift with the time zone takes the meeting entirely out of his comfort zone, though
13:50:19 <petersen> Specially during EST is it pretty tough for him
13:50:22 <stickster> Def more regular than me
13:50:58 <mboddu> cccccccduivjbefgdbrcrfgbuvfdtlgvdbrvukldkvku
13:51:04 <langdon> ubikey!
13:51:19 <mboddu> Sorry, yubibomb :(
13:51:51 <stickster> ha
13:52:14 <stickster> Anyway, what's the next action here? We're coming to top of the hour.
13:52:51 <otaylor> Let me take the action to a) post a call for participation on the desktop@ mailing list (maybe on the silverblue forum too)  b) reach out to the people above to see if they are interested
13:53:12 <langdon> otaylor: who is the current wg member ship?
13:53:23 <langdon> is sanja an option? or is she already a member?
13:53:39 <langdon> speaking of silveblue..
13:53:45 <langdon> that gets "b)" at least
13:53:47 <otaylor> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation
13:54:39 <otaylor> Sanja would be another possible option, yes
13:54:54 <petersen> Yes I was just thinking the same
13:56:11 <otaylor> langdon: rdieter has decided he doesn't have time to continue, and stickster has very few openings in his schedule that work for other people
13:56:23 <petersen> How about we ask them all, and see who is interested?
13:56:30 <stickster> +1
13:57:03 <langdon> otaylor: yeah.. thanks.. i was more just asking if sanja was already on the list..
13:57:53 <petersen> When is the Silverblue meeting btw?
13:58:34 <otaylor> silverblue meeting was canceled because of lack of topics to discuss - it didn't seem very useful. We used to hold it opposite weeks to this meeting
13:58:53 <petersen> okay, right - I hadn't seen it for a while..
14:00:05 <stickster> #action otaylor a) post a call for participation on the desktop@ mailing list (maybe on the silverblue forum too)  b) reach out to the people above [Chris, Sinny, Sanja, Stephen, Langdon] to see if they are interested
14:01:01 <otaylor> thanks stickster. I think we can wrap up now. Sorry for being late and lack of agenda :)
14:01:34 <otaylor> #endmeeting