12:08:32 <jibec[m]> #startmeeting L10N
12:08:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Nov 18 12:08:32 2019 UTC.
12:08:32 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
12:08:32 <zodbot> The chair is jibec[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:08:32 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
12:08:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'l10n'
12:08:47 <jibec[m]> #meetingname L10N
12:08:47 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'l10n'
12:09:02 <jibec[m]> #chair suanand jibec bkm
12:09:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: bkm jibec jibec[m] suanand
12:09:03 <jibec[m]> #topic Phase 1 - weblate beta period
12:09:51 <jibec[m]> I'm a little bit confused about the translation memory of Weblate, here is what Michal told me (he is the Weblate dev)
12:09:58 <jibec[m]> "By default it does only import new translations done in Weblate, not existing ones. You can import existing translations for each project on the page you've mentioned."
12:10:30 <jibec[m]> I feel like this is a real issue for us, migrating many existing projects, I don't want to manually import all previous translation
12:10:45 <bkm> Am not fully sure of the development model that weblate will have.
12:11:03 <bkm> It may be helpful to consult with translation experts on how the store data.
12:11:40 <bkm> A translation memory interface similar to the one for automatic translation would probably be useful
12:13:11 <bkm> This would also allow for some use of translations from external projects.
12:13:16 <jibec[m]> I think they will focus on PostgreSQL database to improve text indexation for research and translation memory purposes
12:13:49 <jibec[m]> here is the article: https://weblate.org/fr/news/archive/why-already-care-about-weblate-40-now/
12:14:55 <bkm> Will there be some way to separate web page internationalization from translation?
12:15:31 <jibec[m]> bkm: what do you mean?
12:16:47 <bkm> Some of the material for Fedora contains html code for which one can change colors, left to right or right to left formatting etc. - these are useful changes, but no translation is done
12:17:42 <jibec[m]> yes, we'll try to fix it with adam
12:18:21 <jibec[m]> so, about translation memory
12:18:53 <jibec[m]> I'll ask the weblate team to add a feature to automatically update the weblate translation memory with existing translation
12:19:24 <jibec[m]> #action jibecfed open a github issue to ask to automatically update the weblate translation memory with existing translation when a new component is created and manually
12:19:31 <jibec[m]> #topic Set-up a contract with the Weblate company
12:19:31 <bkm> Would there be some way to use existing material from other open source projects?
12:20:09 <jibec[m]> bkm: yes, I can already import an existing translation memory in weblate's translation memory
12:20:25 <jibec[m]> still no news about contract, if bex / Brian don't fix it, our server will be erased at end of month...
12:20:35 <jibec[m]> I stopped adding new projects for now, because I don't have approval from Brian to move forward.
12:20:44 <jibec[m]> #topic Phase 2 - Weblate in production
12:21:28 <jibec[m]> the change proposal was validated by Fesco: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Translation_platform_migration_to_Weblate
12:21:55 <bkm> I mean, without importing into the Fedora weblate instance as this creates a secondary copy.
12:21:56 <bkm> Ok. Will Brian's approval be forthcoming?
12:21:57 <bkm> Great
12:23:54 <jibec[m]> Brian's approval is forthcoming, but the question is when? :/ I have no idea when I'll finish this
12:24:04 <bkm> Will production be on Fedora communishift?
12:24:26 <jibec[m]> nope, it will be hosted in Weblate's infrastructure, as today, why ?
12:24:59 <bkm> Ok. Wanted to know if that is something else that needs to be planned for.
12:26:04 <jibec[m]> ok
12:26:05 <jibec[m]> #topic Fedora docs localization
12:26:48 <jibec[m]> So, we have issue with the embedded HTML of the first page, the one you were unhappy with
12:27:08 <jibec[m]> we have a bug in French :https://docs.stg.fedoraproject.org/fr/docs/
12:27:22 <jibec[m]> same in oriya: https://docs.stg.fedoraproject.org/or/docs/
12:27:39 <jibec[m]> we'll have to rewrite it with the help of Adam
12:27:55 <jibec[m]> so we don't provide HTML code to translate, but only actual content
12:28:59 <bkm> Full internationalization for webpages can require HTML rewrite. Things like color highlighting, date formats etc. are best when changed to the local situation.
12:29:32 <bkm> However, not everyone can do this, and in many cases translating the content is sufficient.
12:29:42 <jibec[m]> #action rewrite the homepage using asciidoc only (https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/pages/blob/master/f/homepage/modules/ROOT/pages/index.adoc) to prevent bugs in translation
12:30:09 <jibec[m]> I also played with statistics: https://jibecfed.fedorapeople.org/docs-l10n/localization/
12:30:23 <bkm> Will this work well for all languages?
12:30:33 <jibec[m]> yes
12:30:35 <bkm> Asciidoc (like markdown) is helpful.
12:30:52 <bkm> Will the web page template also be available for internationlization?
12:30:53 <jibec[m]> all languages code detection have their own page
12:31:34 <jibec[m]> I don't think so, is there some content we can't translate that are part of the web page template?
12:32:14 <bkm> Static site generators take markdown like content and generate a website using a specified template.
12:33:06 <jibec[m]> it's the same here, here is the template: https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/fedora-docs-ui
12:33:29 <jibec[m]> but no content is coming from the template
12:33:39 <bkm> Thus red is typically used as a warning color in US, but has different connotation in China. Things like this can be helpful to switch in a website template - essentially CSS like classes for warnings etc.
12:34:57 <jibec[m]> like the warnings of this page? https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f31/install-guide/install/Preparing_for_Installation/
12:35:40 <jibec[m]> I'm unsure this color really is an issue. Have we ever received questions or complaints about it?
12:36:03 <jibec[m]> I'm more worried about image translation as I have no idea how to provide support for it
12:37:09 <bkm> Am giving this as an example. Perhaps might ask on mailing list. Images and icons are also important - but would primarily need a storage location for Fedora, and then in the translation interface update the url for the image
12:38:04 <jibec[m]> I'll  add it to the backlog then
12:38:09 <bkm> I do not think Weblate will have image support directly, though urls for image locations should be something that can be worked into documentation.
12:38:36 <jibec[m]> #action add to backlog to ask translation if template's colors and icons requires internationalization too
12:39:53 <jibec[m]> bkm: for images, we could easily add every images in https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/translated-sources/ but it would make it hudge
12:40:48 <jibec[m]> and translation would manually push images there, but the process would be really manual, and I'm sure we'll hit more bug than anything
12:41:09 <bkm> I do not think there is currently a uniform place to put Fedora related images
12:41:22 <bkm> Design team seems to use a number of different git repositories.
12:42:08 <bkm> However, version control for images does not work so well.
12:42:33 <jibec[m]> I'd like to have a tool based process, where we push new images to translate for translators. Translators will come and say if it requires a translation, if so, update a new file
12:43:05 <jibec[m]> And if the source image change, Translators will say if they prefer to keep their translated image or use the new one
12:43:12 <bkm> This is a good idea.
12:43:19 <jibec[m]> I have no idea if such a tool exist, but I would love so
12:46:09 <bkm> Ok. I think for Weblate, this would just be changing a URL in a translation field.
12:46:29 <bkm> A preview of the image would be nice in the web version, but not necessary in the command line interface
12:46:54 <bkm> Would probably be upto individual projects on where they store their images.
12:49:19 <jibec[m]> yep
12:49:37 <jibec[m]> #topic open discussion
12:49:52 <jibec[m]> any other subject you would like to discuss bkm ?
12:50:04 <jibec[m]> have you had progress in testing machine translation tools?
12:50:05 <bkm> Is there much interaction with other projects used in Fedora?
12:50:24 <bkm> Gnome, KDE, etc. all have some translation required
12:50:30 <jibec[m]> for now, none
12:50:47 <jibec[m]> ah
12:51:13 <jibec[m]> GNOME, KDE and other big projects use their own translation platform and processes
12:51:16 <jibec[m]> we don't host them
12:51:16 <bkm> I suspect there is alot of redundant translation across such components
12:52:37 <bkm> Ok, but might we be able to use some of their existing translations to improve translation memory and/or machine translation?
12:52:47 <bkm> Most of them still use .po files
12:53:08 <jibec[m]> yes, I sent you this link last week: https://github.com/translate/amagama-updater
12:53:20 <jibec[m]> you'll find a lot of script to take their translation
12:53:27 <jibec[m]> have you had time to give it a try?
12:53:43 <bkm> No I have not, Thanks for the reminder.
12:53:57 <jibec[m]> ok, it's a great place for you
12:54:12 <jibec[m]> let me know if it works fine, I never really tried it
12:54:14 <jibec[m]> #endmeeting