12:08:32 #startmeeting L10N 12:08:32 Meeting started Mon Nov 18 12:08:32 2019 UTC. 12:08:32 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 12:08:32 The chair is jibec[m]. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 12:08:32 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 12:08:32 The meeting name has been set to 'l10n' 12:08:47 #meetingname L10N 12:08:47 The meeting name has been set to 'l10n' 12:09:02 #chair suanand jibec bkm 12:09:02 Current chairs: bkm jibec jibec[m] suanand 12:09:03 #topic Phase 1 - weblate beta period 12:09:51 I'm a little bit confused about the translation memory of Weblate, here is what Michal told me (he is the Weblate dev) 12:09:58 "By default it does only import new translations done in Weblate, not existing ones. You can import existing translations for each project on the page you've mentioned." 12:10:30 I feel like this is a real issue for us, migrating many existing projects, I don't want to manually import all previous translation 12:10:45 Am not fully sure of the development model that weblate will have. 12:11:03 It may be helpful to consult with translation experts on how the store data. 12:11:40 A translation memory interface similar to the one for automatic translation would probably be useful 12:13:11 This would also allow for some use of translations from external projects. 12:13:16 I think they will focus on PostgreSQL database to improve text indexation for research and translation memory purposes 12:13:49 here is the article: https://weblate.org/fr/news/archive/why-already-care-about-weblate-40-now/ 12:14:55 Will there be some way to separate web page internationalization from translation? 12:15:31 bkm: what do you mean? 12:16:47 Some of the material for Fedora contains html code for which one can change colors, left to right or right to left formatting etc. - these are useful changes, but no translation is done 12:17:42 yes, we'll try to fix it with adam 12:18:21 so, about translation memory 12:18:53 I'll ask the weblate team to add a feature to automatically update the weblate translation memory with existing translation 12:19:24 #action jibecfed open a github issue to ask to automatically update the weblate translation memory with existing translation when a new component is created and manually 12:19:31 #topic Set-up a contract with the Weblate company 12:19:31 Would there be some way to use existing material from other open source projects? 12:20:09 bkm: yes, I can already import an existing translation memory in weblate's translation memory 12:20:25 still no news about contract, if bex / Brian don't fix it, our server will be erased at end of month... 12:20:35 I stopped adding new projects for now, because I don't have approval from Brian to move forward. 12:20:44 #topic Phase 2 - Weblate in production 12:21:28 the change proposal was validated by Fesco: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Translation_platform_migration_to_Weblate 12:21:55 I mean, without importing into the Fedora weblate instance as this creates a secondary copy. 12:21:56 Ok. Will Brian's approval be forthcoming? 12:21:57 Great 12:23:54 Brian's approval is forthcoming, but the question is when? :/ I have no idea when I'll finish this 12:24:04 Will production be on Fedora communishift? 12:24:26 nope, it will be hosted in Weblate's infrastructure, as today, why ? 12:24:59 Ok. Wanted to know if that is something else that needs to be planned for. 12:26:04 ok 12:26:05 #topic Fedora docs localization 12:26:48 So, we have issue with the embedded HTML of the first page, the one you were unhappy with 12:27:08 we have a bug in French :https://docs.stg.fedoraproject.org/fr/docs/ 12:27:22 same in oriya: https://docs.stg.fedoraproject.org/or/docs/ 12:27:39 we'll have to rewrite it with the help of Adam 12:27:55 so we don't provide HTML code to translate, but only actual content 12:28:59 Full internationalization for webpages can require HTML rewrite. Things like color highlighting, date formats etc. are best when changed to the local situation. 12:29:32 However, not everyone can do this, and in many cases translating the content is sufficient. 12:29:42 #action rewrite the homepage using asciidoc only (https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/pages/blob/master/f/homepage/modules/ROOT/pages/index.adoc) to prevent bugs in translation 12:30:09 I also played with statistics: https://jibecfed.fedorapeople.org/docs-l10n/localization/ 12:30:23 Will this work well for all languages? 12:30:33 yes 12:30:35 Asciidoc (like markdown) is helpful. 12:30:52 Will the web page template also be available for internationlization? 12:30:53 all languages code detection have their own page 12:31:34 I don't think so, is there some content we can't translate that are part of the web page template? 12:32:14 Static site generators take markdown like content and generate a website using a specified template. 12:33:06 it's the same here, here is the template: https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/fedora-docs-ui 12:33:29 but no content is coming from the template 12:33:39 Thus red is typically used as a warning color in US, but has different connotation in China. Things like this can be helpful to switch in a website template - essentially CSS like classes for warnings etc. 12:34:57 like the warnings of this page? https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f31/install-guide/install/Preparing_for_Installation/ 12:35:40 I'm unsure this color really is an issue. Have we ever received questions or complaints about it? 12:36:03 I'm more worried about image translation as I have no idea how to provide support for it 12:37:09 Am giving this as an example. Perhaps might ask on mailing list. Images and icons are also important - but would primarily need a storage location for Fedora, and then in the translation interface update the url for the image 12:38:04 I'll add it to the backlog then 12:38:09 I do not think Weblate will have image support directly, though urls for image locations should be something that can be worked into documentation. 12:38:36 #action add to backlog to ask translation if template's colors and icons requires internationalization too 12:39:53 bkm: for images, we could easily add every images in https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/translated-sources/ but it would make it hudge 12:40:48 and translation would manually push images there, but the process would be really manual, and I'm sure we'll hit more bug than anything 12:41:09 I do not think there is currently a uniform place to put Fedora related images 12:41:22 Design team seems to use a number of different git repositories. 12:42:08 However, version control for images does not work so well. 12:42:33 I'd like to have a tool based process, where we push new images to translate for translators. Translators will come and say if it requires a translation, if so, update a new file 12:43:05 And if the source image change, Translators will say if they prefer to keep their translated image or use the new one 12:43:12 This is a good idea. 12:43:19 I have no idea if such a tool exist, but I would love so 12:46:09 Ok. I think for Weblate, this would just be changing a URL in a translation field. 12:46:29 A preview of the image would be nice in the web version, but not necessary in the command line interface 12:46:54 Would probably be upto individual projects on where they store their images. 12:49:19 yep 12:49:37 #topic open discussion 12:49:52 any other subject you would like to discuss bkm ? 12:50:04 have you had progress in testing machine translation tools? 12:50:05 Is there much interaction with other projects used in Fedora? 12:50:24 Gnome, KDE, etc. all have some translation required 12:50:30 for now, none 12:50:47 ah 12:51:13 GNOME, KDE and other big projects use their own translation platform and processes 12:51:16 we don't host them 12:51:16 I suspect there is alot of redundant translation across such components 12:52:37 Ok, but might we be able to use some of their existing translations to improve translation memory and/or machine translation? 12:52:47 Most of them still use .po files 12:53:08 yes, I sent you this link last week: https://github.com/translate/amagama-updater 12:53:20 you'll find a lot of script to take their translation 12:53:27 have you had time to give it a try? 12:53:43 No I have not, Thanks for the reminder. 12:53:57 ok, it's a great place for you 12:54:12 let me know if it works fine, I never really tried it 12:54:14 #endmeeting