15:23:28 <aday_> #startmeeting Workstation WG (2020-02-25)
15:23:28 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 26 15:23:28 2020 UTC.
15:23:28 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:23:28 <zodbot> The chair is aday_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:23:28 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:23:28 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2020-02-25)'
15:23:30 <aday_> #meetingname workstation
15:23:30 <aday_> #chair aday cmurf
15:23:30 <aday_> #topic Rollcall
15:23:30 <aday_> #info present:cmurf, mclasen, otaylor, jens, mcatanzaro, tpopela, feborges, guests from the Anaconda team
15:23:30 <aday_> #info regrets: kalev
15:23:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'workstation'
15:23:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: aday aday_ cmurf
15:23:32 <aday_> #info missing: langdon
15:23:34 <aday_> 
15:23:36 <aday_> #topic Approve minutes from 18 Feb
15:23:38 <aday_> #info Approve meetbot 2020-02-20-10.09
15:23:42 <aday_> #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2020-02-20/workstation.2020-02-20-10.09.html
15:23:45 <aday_> #topic Announcements
15:23:47 <aday_> Status update on in-progress action items:
15:23:49 <aday_> #info Enabling and autoinstalling the OpenH264 codec - https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/workstation-wg-1/us/16 . Some progress on getting the repo enabled, but it's not resolved yet. Neal's been working on it and is now waiting on releng. Is going to need a freeze exception.
15:23:53 <aday_> #info Proposal to switch the default editor to Nano: https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/workstation-wg-1/task/30 . No progress.
15:23:56 <aday_> #info Enabling earlyoom by default - https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/workstation-wg-1/task/28 - this is pretty much done. Needs non-critical tweaking and there are some comments in the issue
15:23:59 <aday_> #info Banners in Software - https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/workstation-wg-1/task/34 ; initial proposal made, likely needs developer time next cycle.
15:24:02 <aday_> #info Including fedora-workstation-repos on the install media - https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/workstation-wg-1/task/35 - submitted to the council ( https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/289 )
15:24:05 <aday_> #info Our kanban in-progress work items have been split into the current release ("doing") and the next release ("doing F+1"). See https://teams.fedoraproject.org/project/workstation-wg-1/kanban
15:24:10 <aday_> #info Updated meeting procedures
15:24:12 <aday_> Chris: we've had a bit of an issue with interuptions in meetings, partly due to latency on the video chat
15:24:15 <aday_> In future each topic will be introduced by one person, who will have 2 minutes, then we will take turns to speak having 1 minute each, in alphabetical order.
15:24:18 <aday_> The topic owner can ask questions of individual WG members
15:24:20 <aday_> #topic Remove LibreOffice Draw from default install
15:24:22 <aday_> #info Background is https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/129
15:24:24 <aday_> #info This has been completed
15:24:26 <aday_> #topic Reconsider updates policy
15:24:28 <aday_> #info Background is https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/107
15:24:30 <aday_> Matthew Miller has been contacted; we're yet to hear back
15:24:32 <aday_> #agreed Defered
15:24:34 <aday_> #topic Hibernation support, swap-on-ZRAM, swap space
15:24:36 <aday_> #info Background is https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/120 , https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/121 , https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/127
15:24:41 <aday_> #info Resolving these issues is necessary for us to resolve https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/54 , https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/82 , https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/101
15:24:44 <aday_> #info Proposal for F33: drop the swap partition, enable swap-on-ZRAM
15:24:46 <aday_> Michael: 64 GB of RAM results in 64 GB of swap. Suggests 2 or 4 GB of Swap
15:24:48 <aday_> Chris: Swap on ZRAM - IoT has been using it for 2 years with no problems. Anaconda has been using it on net installs and live. systemd zram generator is making progress.
15:24:51 <aday_> Chris: hibernation - based on conversation with Matthew Garrett and Joey Lee (?) at SUSE, it seems like the answer is encrypted hibernation images. This would allow hibernation while secure boot is on. It would depend on having a TPM to seal the key used for encrypting and signing the hibernation image. We all want hibernation to work, the reality is that it's not something we can support while supporting UEFI with secure boot
15:24:56 <aday_> enabled, at least at the moment.
15:24:58 <aday_> Anaconda room [sorry, I didn't catch names]: for zram, Anaconda uses a custom script, but it doesn't do anythnig particularly special, so if there's a systemd implementation that shouldn't be a problem. There is a boot option so this would need to be replaced or deprecated.
15:25:02 <aday_> Chris: what about dropping the swap partition for workstation? Anaconda: not against it, and it's not too hard. If the user manually creates a swap partition, hibernation would be enabled.
15:25:05 <aday_> Matthias: questions the concept of live installs. They seem fragile and would like us to move away from them.
15:25:10 <aday_> [Neal joins]
15:25:12 <aday_> Neal: why isn't there a dedicated hibernation partition/image? Chris: hibernation is handled by the kernel, and it seems that there's no one working on splitting hibernation out from swap.
15:25:15 <aday_> Anaconda: one of the reasons the swap partition is so big is to allow hibernation. An on-demand file could be a promising alternative.
15:25:18 <aday_> Allan: we shouldn't assume that a hibernation file is a viable way forward without doing more investigation and planning around it.
15:25:21 <aday_> Allan: what are the advantages of swap-on-ZRAM? Chris: this is in #98 (better interactivity). Advantages are: we don't have to create a partition, it's faster, everybody gets some swap. He can review the pros and cons for the group.
15:25:25 <aday_> Neal: doesn't feel that he knews enough about zram to make a decision. Has seen concerns around s3 with zram (on mailing lists).
15:25:28 <aday_> Chris: could we run a zram test day? Or a test week? Before we put it into rawhide. Michael: agrees that this is a good idea. We need bug reports because the s3 issue is new to us.
15:25:31 <aday_> #action Chris to post instructions for testing zram
15:25:33 <aday_> #action Organize a zram test day early in the F33 cycle
15:25:35 <aday_> Anaconda: neither IoT nor Anaconda expect people to be suspending, so their experience with zram isn't relevant here
15:25:40 <aday_> Allan: are there any setups (devices, configurations) where we might expect to see problems? Need to ensure a diversity of hardware and so on.
15:25:43 <aday_> Michael: suggests advertising the test day to ensure wider participation
15:25:45 <aday_> Chris: it could be hard to disentangle suspend issues from zram issues
15:25:47 <aday_> #endmeeting