04:36:56 #startmeeting Workstation WG (2020-08-25) 04:36:56 Meeting started Wed Aug 26 04:36:56 2020 UTC. 04:36:56 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 04:36:56 The chair is cmurf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 04:36:56 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 04:36:56 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation_wg_(2020-08-25)' 04:36:58 #meetingname workstation 04:36:58 The meeting name has been set to 'workstation' 04:37:00 #chair cmurf 04:37:00 Current chairs: cmurf 04:37:25 #topic Rollcall 04:37:27 #info present wg members: cmurf, tpopela, aday, mclasen, kalev, neal, mcatanzaro, langdon 04:37:29 #info regrets wg members: petersen 04:37:31 #info present guests: 04:37:33 #topic Approval of 17 Aug minutes 04:37:35 #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/workstation/workstation.2020-08-19-18.13.log.html 04:37:37 Langdon: not happy with a line in the minutes, about renaming downstream apps. Feels that it lost context. How to deal with that? 04:37:39 Neal: Agrees. 04:37:41 Chris: could reply to the minutes email when it goes out. Alternatively, could overwrite the record of the minutes in meetboot, with an updated version. 04:37:43 Langdon: would prefer to have the permanent record amended. 04:37:45 #action Langdon to provide Chris with the amendment, then we'll re-approve 04:37:47 #topic Announcements 04:37:49 #info Today is beta freeze 04:37:51 #topic Follow-ups & Status reports 04:37:53 #info Workstation F33 image is still a bit oversize 04:37:55 #info kalev has submitted a PR to make gnome-shell non-removable 04:37:57 #info GNOME upstream release happened on August 22 (beta 2?). Kalev is turning the wheels to get the updates in. 04:37:59 #topic Meta issue: pre-installed programs+apps for F33 04:38:01 Changes will require freeze breaks. 04:38:03 #topic Make a small core of packages non-removable with DNF 04:38:05 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/165 04:38:07 #topic Remove Photos and Rhythmbox from the default apps 04:38:09 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/164 04:38:11 Bastien made totem not play audio for the upcoming release. Michael suggests that we just defer to upstream. 04:38:13 Allan: there's no urgency on this and there are other moving parts which are giving us reason to pause and rethink. We can wait. 04:38:15 Neal: it's late in the cycle to be making changes - let's leave any changes until F34. 04:38:17 #agreed We'll wait to do anything with Photos - Allan to speak to Debarshi about the change first 04:38:19 #topic Remove Boxes from default install 04:38:21 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/179 04:38:23 langdon: Boxes meets a developer need 04:38:25 kalev: some people might prefer virt-manager 04:38:27 neal: reason virtual box is not in Fedora is an out of tree kernel module; pre-installing Boxes encourages qemu-kvm usage 04:38:29 tomas: Concerned about too many pre-installed application changes, and users being unable to find GNOME Boxes; in favor of including free software that's mostly OK rather than putting users in the position of choosing something proprietary. 04:38:31 langdon: no indication that anything is pre-installed; can we do a better job of indicating what's available? Dash? We don't tell a very good story what we're promoting 04:38:33 Neal: We don't tell a good story about why users should use desktop, broadly. Not just Workstation. 04:38:35 Tomas: I agree but where and how to do that? 04:38:37 langdon: ways we can go down that path, could be a series of blog articles, asking the user for the profile they'd like to start with: admin, media, developer; we've never discussed how to approach this. I always have a mental block about how we tell this story better. 04:38:39 Neal: Windows macOS, first start highlights what's preinstalled, draws attention; tour 04:38:41 tomas: they have a big marketing department 04:38:43 langdon: if we have the idea, the potential for making it happen; if we had the resources, what would we do? Should we ask the community how to promote them? There might be more resources than we know about. 04:38:45 Langdon: Twitch stream. Easier to do on Fedora. 04:38:47 #agreed Deferred until F34 04:38:49 Langdon: wouldn't like to see Boxes removed, on the basis that it would deviate from the PRD (and a mission of supporting developers) 04:38:51 Matthias: reasons to remove Boxes are mostly technical; could be resolved in libvirt. 04:38:53 WG discusses Boxes, VirtualBox, developer focus. What sort of applications do we want to have installed by default? 04:38:55 #action: Chris to talk to Daniel about networking problem on live image. 04:38:57 #action: Chris to talk to Mark Pearson about Lenovo's needs for default apps. 04:38:59 Installing applications by default allows us to promote them. How do we promote Boxes if it's not installed by default? 04:39:01 #topic Make a small core of packages non-removable with DNF 04:39:03 #link https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/165 04:39:05 #info Making gnome-shell non-removable is in-progress 04:39:07 #action Neal to talk to bootloader team to make grub nonremovable 04:39:09 #topic Open Floor 04:39:25 #endmeeting