22:45:11 <jflory7> #startmeeting Fedora CommOps Hack Session (2016-06-08)
22:45:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun  8 22:45:11 2016 UTC.  The chair is jflory7. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:45:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
22:45:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_commops_hack_session_(2016-06-08)'
22:45:13 <jflory7> #meetingname commops
22:45:13 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'commops'
22:45:17 <jflory7> #topic Roll Call
22:45:39 <jflory7> .hello jflory7
22:45:40 <zodbot> jflory7: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' <me@justinwflory.com>
22:45:48 <jflory7> #chair omiday
22:45:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: jflory7 omiday
22:45:59 <jflory7> Hiya!
22:46:12 <omiday> howdy
22:46:59 <jflory7> *Might* just be me and you tonight - maybe Wednesday wasn't the best day. In either case, I think we can knock some work out tonight.
22:47:03 <jflory7> #topic Getting started
22:47:06 <jflory7> #link https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/commops-power-sessions
22:47:29 * omiday is there
22:47:34 <jflory7> The release announcement was the *big ticket* item tonight, but that's blocking on decause, mattdm, jzb, and bkp.
22:47:53 <jflory7> I think I had some other tickets earmarked for the next hack session, though.
22:48:01 * jflory7 is getting tabs open
22:48:33 <omiday> ticket 227?
22:49:07 <jflory7> omiday: That's not in the CommOps Trac, is it? Marketing, I think?
22:49:13 <jflory7> #link https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/227
22:49:16 <jflory7> Yeah, there it is.
22:49:43 * jflory7 looks over just to be sure there isn't anything we can do
22:50:29 <jflory7> Even if we can't work on the main announcement, there's a few other things we could try tackling.
22:50:34 <jflory7> omiday, do you happen to already be on F24?
22:50:59 <omiday> I do
22:51:06 <omiday> why?
22:51:37 <omiday> I do have other boxes on F23 tho
22:52:13 <jflory7> omiday: Do you remember how you upgraded to F24? Was hoping to get a sanity check on the upgrade guide for F24 so far. https://fedoramagazine.org/?p=13090&preview=1&_ppp=68bc6904e9
22:52:42 <jflory7> Ah, we also have our vFAD plans
22:52:50 <jflory7> Not sure if you saw this ticket yet: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/10
22:53:02 <omiday> jflory7: followed the guide in the wiki
22:53:32 <omiday> back when we had the alpha release
22:54:28 <jflory7> omiday: Are these the commands you ran? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_package_manager#Fedora_23_-.3E_Fedora_24
22:54:38 <jflory7> Hmmm, odd. I thought we had the system-upgrade plugin.
22:54:50 <jflory7> I may need to spend more time checking that and confirming if it's still a thing
22:55:05 <omiday> IIRC there is an issue with graphical upgrade
22:56:31 <jflory7> It's not in F23 officially yet. It's unclear whether it will make it, but if it does, we're hoping to document it
22:56:40 <omiday> jflory7: I upgraded by going to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading then follow the DNF link to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DNF_system_upgrade
22:56:41 <jflory7> But it may just be late, so we may recommend the traditional way
22:56:49 <jflory7> omiday: Okay, I see, perfect.
22:57:08 <omiday> that is because there some cleanup tasks you'd want to do
22:57:13 <omiday> *post-cleanup* tasks
22:58:09 <jflory7> I'm going to add those into the article now. :)
22:58:16 <jflory7> omiday++
22:58:23 * omiday sticks to command line because his 77 years old mother living far away needs something that just works ;)
22:58:44 <jflory7> :)
22:59:03 <omiday> she's been on fedora since f16 :)
23:01:12 <jflory7> Not bad at all!
23:01:17 <jflory7> Pretty impressive, actually.
23:01:37 <jflory7> If you want to take a look at the ticket linked above, that's something you might be interested in (Ticket #10 about the vFAD).
23:01:53 <jflory7> I think we're close to moving on to choosing some dates.
23:02:39 * omiday looking
23:08:38 <omiday> jflory7: I'd change the bullets to numbers as it's easy to reference
23:08:58 <omiday> f.e. got a question about 'stray git repos...'
23:09:16 <omiday> are those commops apps?
23:09:38 <jflory7> Yeah, that is true. I can edit the wiki page for that.
23:09:58 <jflory7> I don't think git repos are *as* big of a problem for us, but I think the decentralization with things like Etherpads is a bit.
23:11:27 <omiday> btw, talking about grandparents you've ever come across http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.ca/?
23:11:50 <omiday> not to hijack our session though, just a note ;)
23:11:53 * jflory7 updated the wiki page for an ordered list
23:11:57 <jflory7> No, I haven't!
23:12:15 * jflory7 stores for checking out in a bit :)
23:12:33 <omiday> disclaimer: hse is not my mother :)
23:13:36 <omiday> was there any discussion around storing etherpads?
23:13:43 <jflory7> Looks like a good blog, I'll have to give it a read. :)
23:13:44 <jflory7> Not yet.
23:14:06 <jflory7> I think part of the question is if we want to use Etherpads for long-term storage of information in the first place or if we just want to better promote what pads we're using.
23:14:14 <jflory7> It's a little bit confusing about where they all live now.
23:15:16 <omiday> I think Etherpad is good when we work together on stuff but then we need a permanent storage - versioning would be also good
23:15:57 <jflory7> Versioning would be useful... wonder if there's a clever way we can do that within Etherpad.
23:17:35 <omiday> I only see an export option - plain text - and that can go into our tool of choice
23:18:24 <jflory7> That would be useful if we had a place to parse them or place them.
23:19:02 <omiday> https://github.com/ether/pad/issues/53
23:19:11 * jflory7 is working on some catching up on the Community Blog editing right now btw
23:19:12 * jflory7 looks
23:20:30 <omiday> here: https://github.com/ether/pad/issues/53#issuecomment-12918955
23:21:45 * omiday is testing the demo
23:23:34 <omiday> jflory7: if you want to join https://oasis.sandstorm.io/shared/91mNsjX4-aKE6zzv_zZdRGbz4BmWpFLulWmJniDjHXA
23:24:53 <omiday> jflory7: the only think with ehterpads is that we need the app installed on Fedora infrastructure so the changes are persistent, methinks?
23:25:29 <jflory7> omiday: I think so, but there's some reluctance for a Fedora official Etherpad, I think. I can't remember why, but there was a reason Infra was avoiding having an official one for Fedora.
23:26:24 <jflory7> It might have been a security concern.
23:26:39 <jflory7> For example, if you try exporting a pad on the GNOME Etherpad as an Etherpad, it crashes the entire instance
23:27:06 <jflory7> I found the saved revision feature. It's the star towards the top.
23:27:48 <omiday> jflory7: I've seen other groups switching to SOPs stored on Pagure
23:28:09 <jflory7> Yeah, Pagure is where a lot of development / documentation is moving towards.
23:28:22 <jflory7> I think it would be a good idea if we could take advantage of having repos there in our own workflow.
23:28:22 <omiday> you can take that SOP and paste into an etherpad (as text) then edit as a group and upload back
23:28:36 <jflory7> Ooh, that is trie
23:28:39 <jflory7> * true
23:28:45 <omiday> same approach if we want to use the wiki
23:29:16 <omiday> it depends on what skills people have: reST or Mediawiki etc.
23:30:30 <omiday> jflory7: ever used Sphinx (and therefore "Read the Docs"?)
23:30:57 <jflory7> omiday: I haven't used Sphinx, but I know about ReadTheDocs (Pagure has tight integration with it too, if I recall).
23:32:41 <omiday> for the sake of consistency we could go along with the Docs group - so many options we just need to have our requirements clarified
23:33:17 * jflory7 nods
23:33:32 <jflory7> omiday: Have you also seen pandoc?
23:33:41 <jflory7> pandoc is a super nice tool for document conversions.
23:34:11 * jflory7 will probably need to head out in another 15 minutes or so
23:34:33 <omiday> jflory7: yes, although haven't used often as I edit all my docs in reST
23:34:51 <jflory7> Ah, I see - I'm not super familiar with that but I've heard it mentioned before.
23:35:15 <omiday> If you read Infra SOPs that's reStructuredText
23:37:12 <jflory7> Oh, duh, I know what that is
23:37:17 <jflory7> Never mind :P
23:37:28 <omiday> :)
23:37:52 <omiday> "new contributors to CommOps" tells me we need to keep things simple - CommOps memebers aren't necessarily Git users
23:38:06 <omiday> however most people are comfortable editing a wiki
23:38:13 <omiday> is Fedora wiki here to stay?
23:39:52 <jflory7> That's also something that I've noticed too, as a lot of the people who seem interested in contributing to CommOps are from the advocacy or sometimes non-technical side. So I think it's important to realize and recognize those contributors, so git can be a hard barrier to entry if someone isn't that comfortable with git. As far as the wiki goes, I think it's here to stay, but a little begrudgingly. It's easy for information to sprawl out after
23:39:52 <jflory7> a while, and there's so many pages that aren't categorized and organized that it's hard to keep it all together.
23:40:20 <jflory7> The wiki is a lower barrier to entry, but I think we should be mindful of avoiding the sprawl over time.
23:41:36 <omiday> I think any solution we choose will need some love
23:41:45 <omiday> anyhow we can get more brain power once we've set the dates for vFAD :)
23:42:01 <jflory7> Agreed. I'm getting some of these thoughts into (ironically) the Power Sessions Etherpad.
23:43:01 <omiday> I've been wondering, if Etherpad crashes or the server gets rebooted for maintenance or else, do we lose everything?
23:43:32 <jflory7> Hypothetically... yes. :P I try to make regular, exported backups frequently.
23:44:04 <omiday> so then we could just create a child page within our commops wiki?
23:44:34 <jflory7> With all of the data? Yeah, we probably could.
23:44:46 <omiday> export as text first - convert to wiki - next session just copy/paste in same etherpad?
23:45:41 <jflory7> That might be possible... hmmmm... let me try something.
23:46:18 <omiday> reST would be nice when we edit on etherpad although with a bit of practice we can master wiki syntax - then make corrections when we dump back into wiki
23:46:24 * omiday just thinking out loud
23:47:05 * omiday off to check whether pandoc can do reST to mediawiki
23:49:17 <omiday> jflory7: reading Purpose-2.1 - since that's our goal I do think wiki should be the place (Wikipedia isn't going away any time soon ;D, if they can maintain it why can't we?)
23:49:53 <jflory7> Made this as a proof of concept for Etherpad HTML => MediaWiki. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jflory7/Scratchpad/Hack_Session_Etherpad
23:49:55 <jflory7> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jflory7/Scratchpad/Hack_Session_Etherpad
23:50:05 <jflory7> omiday: I think for now, you're probably right.
23:50:09 * jflory7 needs to run
23:50:16 <jflory7> omiday: Anything you needed from me before I head out?
23:50:26 <omiday> jflory7: talk later
23:50:31 * jflory7 nods
23:50:34 <omiday> have a good evening
23:50:36 <jflory7> Feel free to drop me an email if needed.
23:50:41 <jflory7> Shall we close out the meeting too?
23:50:52 <omiday> jflory7: sure to email
23:51:06 <omiday> I guess we can, no one else is here anyway
23:51:09 <jflory7> #endmeeting