22:45:11 #startmeeting Fedora CommOps Hack Session (2016-06-08) 22:45:11 Meeting started Wed Jun 8 22:45:11 2016 UTC. The chair is jflory7. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 22:45:11 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 22:45:11 The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_commops_hack_session_(2016-06-08)' 22:45:13 #meetingname commops 22:45:13 The meeting name has been set to 'commops' 22:45:17 #topic Roll Call 22:45:39 .hello jflory7 22:45:40 jflory7: jflory7 'Justin W. Flory' 22:45:48 #chair omiday 22:45:48 Current chairs: jflory7 omiday 22:45:59 Hiya! 22:46:12 howdy 22:46:59 *Might* just be me and you tonight - maybe Wednesday wasn't the best day. In either case, I think we can knock some work out tonight. 22:47:03 #topic Getting started 22:47:06 #link https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/commops-power-sessions 22:47:29 * omiday is there 22:47:34 The release announcement was the *big ticket* item tonight, but that's blocking on decause, mattdm, jzb, and bkp. 22:47:53 I think I had some other tickets earmarked for the next hack session, though. 22:48:01 * jflory7 is getting tabs open 22:48:33 ticket 227? 22:49:07 omiday: That's not in the CommOps Trac, is it? Marketing, I think? 22:49:13 #link https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/227 22:49:16 Yeah, there it is. 22:49:43 * jflory7 looks over just to be sure there isn't anything we can do 22:50:29 Even if we can't work on the main announcement, there's a few other things we could try tackling. 22:50:34 omiday, do you happen to already be on F24? 22:50:59 I do 22:51:06 why? 22:51:37 I do have other boxes on F23 tho 22:52:13 omiday: Do you remember how you upgraded to F24? Was hoping to get a sanity check on the upgrade guide for F24 so far. https://fedoramagazine.org/?p=13090&preview=1&_ppp=68bc6904e9 22:52:42 Ah, we also have our vFAD plans 22:52:50 Not sure if you saw this ticket yet: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-commops/ticket/10 22:53:02 jflory7: followed the guide in the wiki 22:53:32 back when we had the alpha release 22:54:28 omiday: Are these the commands you ran? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_package_manager#Fedora_23_-.3E_Fedora_24 22:54:38 Hmmm, odd. I thought we had the system-upgrade plugin. 22:54:50 I may need to spend more time checking that and confirming if it's still a thing 22:55:05 IIRC there is an issue with graphical upgrade 22:56:31 It's not in F23 officially yet. It's unclear whether it will make it, but if it does, we're hoping to document it 22:56:40 jflory7: I upgraded by going to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading then follow the DNF link to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DNF_system_upgrade 22:56:41 But it may just be late, so we may recommend the traditional way 22:56:49 omiday: Okay, I see, perfect. 22:57:08 that is because there some cleanup tasks you'd want to do 22:57:13 *post-cleanup* tasks 22:58:09 I'm going to add those into the article now. :) 22:58:16 omiday++ 22:58:23 * omiday sticks to command line because his 77 years old mother living far away needs something that just works ;) 22:58:44 :) 22:59:03 she's been on fedora since f16 :) 23:01:12 Not bad at all! 23:01:17 Pretty impressive, actually. 23:01:37 If you want to take a look at the ticket linked above, that's something you might be interested in (Ticket #10 about the vFAD). 23:01:53 I think we're close to moving on to choosing some dates. 23:02:39 * omiday looking 23:08:38 jflory7: I'd change the bullets to numbers as it's easy to reference 23:08:58 f.e. got a question about 'stray git repos...' 23:09:16 are those commops apps? 23:09:38 Yeah, that is true. I can edit the wiki page for that. 23:09:58 I don't think git repos are *as* big of a problem for us, but I think the decentralization with things like Etherpads is a bit. 23:11:27 btw, talking about grandparents you've ever come across http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.ca/? 23:11:50 not to hijack our session though, just a note ;) 23:11:53 * jflory7 updated the wiki page for an ordered list 23:11:57 No, I haven't! 23:12:15 * jflory7 stores for checking out in a bit :) 23:12:33 disclaimer: hse is not my mother :) 23:13:36 was there any discussion around storing etherpads? 23:13:43 Looks like a good blog, I'll have to give it a read. :) 23:13:44 Not yet. 23:14:06 I think part of the question is if we want to use Etherpads for long-term storage of information in the first place or if we just want to better promote what pads we're using. 23:14:14 It's a little bit confusing about where they all live now. 23:15:16 I think Etherpad is good when we work together on stuff but then we need a permanent storage - versioning would be also good 23:15:57 Versioning would be useful... wonder if there's a clever way we can do that within Etherpad. 23:17:35 I only see an export option - plain text - and that can go into our tool of choice 23:18:24 That would be useful if we had a place to parse them or place them. 23:19:02 https://github.com/ether/pad/issues/53 23:19:11 * jflory7 is working on some catching up on the Community Blog editing right now btw 23:19:12 * jflory7 looks 23:20:30 here: https://github.com/ether/pad/issues/53#issuecomment-12918955 23:21:45 * omiday is testing the demo 23:23:34 jflory7: if you want to join https://oasis.sandstorm.io/shared/91mNsjX4-aKE6zzv_zZdRGbz4BmWpFLulWmJniDjHXA 23:24:53 jflory7: the only think with ehterpads is that we need the app installed on Fedora infrastructure so the changes are persistent, methinks? 23:25:29 omiday: I think so, but there's some reluctance for a Fedora official Etherpad, I think. I can't remember why, but there was a reason Infra was avoiding having an official one for Fedora. 23:26:24 It might have been a security concern. 23:26:39 For example, if you try exporting a pad on the GNOME Etherpad as an Etherpad, it crashes the entire instance 23:27:06 I found the saved revision feature. It's the star towards the top. 23:27:48 jflory7: I've seen other groups switching to SOPs stored on Pagure 23:28:09 Yeah, Pagure is where a lot of development / documentation is moving towards. 23:28:22 I think it would be a good idea if we could take advantage of having repos there in our own workflow. 23:28:22 you can take that SOP and paste into an etherpad (as text) then edit as a group and upload back 23:28:36 Ooh, that is trie 23:28:39 * true 23:28:45 same approach if we want to use the wiki 23:29:16 it depends on what skills people have: reST or Mediawiki etc. 23:30:30 jflory7: ever used Sphinx (and therefore "Read the Docs"?) 23:30:57 omiday: I haven't used Sphinx, but I know about ReadTheDocs (Pagure has tight integration with it too, if I recall). 23:32:41 for the sake of consistency we could go along with the Docs group - so many options we just need to have our requirements clarified 23:33:17 * jflory7 nods 23:33:32 omiday: Have you also seen pandoc? 23:33:41 pandoc is a super nice tool for document conversions. 23:34:11 * jflory7 will probably need to head out in another 15 minutes or so 23:34:33 jflory7: yes, although haven't used often as I edit all my docs in reST 23:34:51 Ah, I see - I'm not super familiar with that but I've heard it mentioned before. 23:35:15 If you read Infra SOPs that's reStructuredText 23:37:12 Oh, duh, I know what that is 23:37:17 Never mind :P 23:37:28 :) 23:37:52 "new contributors to CommOps" tells me we need to keep things simple - CommOps memebers aren't necessarily Git users 23:38:06 however most people are comfortable editing a wiki 23:38:13 is Fedora wiki here to stay? 23:39:52 That's also something that I've noticed too, as a lot of the people who seem interested in contributing to CommOps are from the advocacy or sometimes non-technical side. So I think it's important to realize and recognize those contributors, so git can be a hard barrier to entry if someone isn't that comfortable with git. As far as the wiki goes, I think it's here to stay, but a little begrudgingly. It's easy for information to sprawl out after 23:39:52 a while, and there's so many pages that aren't categorized and organized that it's hard to keep it all together. 23:40:20 The wiki is a lower barrier to entry, but I think we should be mindful of avoiding the sprawl over time. 23:41:36 I think any solution we choose will need some love 23:41:45 anyhow we can get more brain power once we've set the dates for vFAD :) 23:42:01 Agreed. I'm getting some of these thoughts into (ironically) the Power Sessions Etherpad. 23:43:01 I've been wondering, if Etherpad crashes or the server gets rebooted for maintenance or else, do we lose everything? 23:43:32 Hypothetically... yes. :P I try to make regular, exported backups frequently. 23:44:04 so then we could just create a child page within our commops wiki? 23:44:34 With all of the data? Yeah, we probably could. 23:44:46 export as text first - convert to wiki - next session just copy/paste in same etherpad? 23:45:41 That might be possible... hmmmm... let me try something. 23:46:18 reST would be nice when we edit on etherpad although with a bit of practice we can master wiki syntax - then make corrections when we dump back into wiki 23:46:24 * omiday just thinking out loud 23:47:05 * omiday off to check whether pandoc can do reST to mediawiki 23:49:17 jflory7: reading Purpose-2.1 - since that's our goal I do think wiki should be the place (Wikipedia isn't going away any time soon ;D, if they can maintain it why can't we?) 23:49:53 Made this as a proof of concept for Etherpad HTML => MediaWiki. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jflory7/Scratchpad/Hack_Session_Etherpad 23:49:55 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jflory7/Scratchpad/Hack_Session_Etherpad 23:50:05 omiday: I think for now, you're probably right. 23:50:09 * jflory7 needs to run 23:50:16 omiday: Anything you needed from me before I head out? 23:50:26 jflory7: talk later 23:50:31 * jflory7 nods 23:50:34 have a good evening 23:50:36 Feel free to drop me an email if needed. 23:50:41 Shall we close out the meeting too? 23:50:52 jflory7: sure to email 23:51:06 I guess we can, no one else is here anyway 23:51:09 #endmeeting