16:32:22 <nirik> #startmeeting
16:32:31 <nirik> #meetingtopic IRC Support SIG
16:32:58 * Sonar_Guy is present
16:33:05 <nirik> #topic Init process.
16:33:17 <EvilBob> 
16:33:21 * EvilBob 
16:34:19 * nirik will wait a few more minutes for folks to wander in.
16:34:21 * zcat 
16:35:55 <nirik> ok, I guess we can go ahead and get started...
16:36:16 <nirik> #topic Weekly stats
16:36:29 <nirik> as always they are at: http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
16:37:08 <nirik> one interesting thing I'd like to bring up: So we have some people who are in the top 25 that are new... what could we do to try and get those folks more involved in helping others?
16:37:19 <vwbusguy-> candy?
16:37:39 <nirik> I know some of them are just needing lots of help themselves... but can we bring them into helping others in some way?
16:37:49 <vwbusguy-> nirik, some are trying
16:38:01 <vwbusguy-> hiemanshu for one
16:38:16 * vwbusguy- apologizes for naming nicks
16:38:38 <nirik> anyhow, lets try and see if we can't bring some of those folks into helping out more. Just something to keep in mind.
16:39:12 <nirik> anyone have anything they would like to bring up related to stats?
16:39:36 <nirik> The channel number has stayed pretty high since release...
16:40:18 * Southern_Gentlem 
16:40:39 <Southern_Gentlem> it will for another week
16:40:39 <nirik> ok, moving along then...
16:40:56 <nirik> at least. I am sure we picked up some idlers...
16:41:21 <EvilBob> LOL
16:41:22 <nirik> #topic catalysts
16:41:36 <nirik> I would like to point all the helpers/ops at http://freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
16:41:57 <nirik> I think it's a good read and we should keep some of the things it mentions in mind.
16:42:33 <nirik> so, if folks could set aside a few minutes and read through that, that would be great.
16:42:56 <nirik> #topic fedora-social
16:43:23 <nirik> So, with us pointing the off topic stuff over to #fedora-social there are more cases of people being jerks/ranting/disruptive in there.
16:43:45 <nirik> Should we have some policy there? Or just leave it as a free for all unless someone complains?
16:43:58 <EvilBob> We need a few chan specific ops in there I think
16:44:19 <nirik> well, if we need to kick the occasional person, we could also just op fedbot, who is in there.
16:44:42 <nirik> but it's unclear to me under what conditions someone should be removed. :)
16:45:19 * JukeBoxHero too
16:45:22 <Southern_Gentlem> they see me coming and shut up
16:45:26 <EvilBob> a couple people that are not always active in #fedora, having to wait for an op to join -social, figure out what is happening, figure out if they feel like doing something.
16:45:27 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: the rule of thumb I use is that if people are complaining, and are not part of the rant its time for somebody to have a timeout
16:45:30 <JukeBoxHero> well yes, but I think we got EvilBob
16:45:46 <EvilBob> JukeBoxHero: what do you mean?
16:45:49 <JukeBoxHero> he cant surely put people (jerks) in their place :)
16:45:53 <JukeBoxHero> can*
16:46:11 <EvilBob> JukeBoxHero: Sure we police the channels in "non-op" ways
16:46:22 <EvilBob> JukeBoxHero: I am not an op in either channnel
16:46:31 <nirik> Sonar_Guy: ok, but thats kinda mob rule. ;) What if a few jerks complain about someone else.
16:46:38 <EvilBob> JukeBoxHero: that is what the link nirik pointed to is about
16:47:07 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik, well you have to weigh who is complaining
16:47:14 <nirik> Personally I would like it to be all hands off, but a few people do dissapoint and seem to make it needed to clean it up every once in a while.
16:47:23 <EvilBob> Again, I am willing to be an op in either channel but would like to be able to work through fedbot and not be in the access lists
16:47:26 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: as of yet that has not happened, most of the time alot of us are on both channels
16:47:55 <zcat> (oh, 'catalyist' as in being anti-trollish on freenode. when i saw that link a few times earlier, i mentally ignored it out because i associated it with ATI.)
16:47:56 <Sonar_Guy> so we know who is not nice and who is usually ok
16:48:16 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  register bob for fedbot and op fedbot in social
16:48:21 <EvilBob> a lot of times in social it is petty personal attacks, a simple kick "be nice" is enough
16:48:24 <zcat> *catalyst even
01:45:41 * catalyst even
16:48:55 <EvilBob> a long ban list is not needed in -social for sure
16:49:20 <nirik> it's sad there can't be any place thats 100% open/say what you like. ;(
16:49:23 <zcat> i don't need/want ops in #fedora-social, since my tolerance for shit is too high there.
16:49:36 <Sonar_Guy> lol
16:49:56 <EvilBob> zcat: yeah it has a way different set of rules and a much higher bar
16:50:01 <JukeBoxHero> tentatively, from personal experience, the incremental change of a new user would be ask help in #fedora, become comfortable with the distro, help back in return as he gets the know-hows, then eventually move into #fedora-social
16:50:06 <mether> hey guys, when you are at the end of the meeting, give me a few mins if possible . I just need to discuss something quick
16:50:07 <EvilBob> zcat: and it is working
16:50:14 <JukeBoxHero> that must say something about #fedora-social
16:50:19 <nirik> mether: no problem, we have open floor at the end.
16:51:01 <zcat> EvilBob, anyone is still free to change the topic there, too, and that hasn't been a problem :)
16:51:12 <EvilBob> The main rule we have pushed in social is no technical support
16:51:19 * nirik is ok with trying the op fedbot, give a few folks access to it that are in social and hope it's not needed.
16:51:24 <EvilBob> Yeah we have fun with the topic
16:51:52 <JukeBoxHero> i love #fedora-social, sometimes i think i can get away with murder there ;)
16:51:55 <EvilBob> it is a fun channel most of the time
16:52:01 <nirik> due to a bug in the flood protect plugin currently, it may mean that fedbot kicks people who flood there (until I track it down and fix it)
16:52:24 <vwbusguy-> nirik, will op'ing fedbot in #Fedora-social mean anyone with fedbot access generally will be ops in Fedora-social
16:52:28 <EvilBob> yeh murder is not exactly social, try -antisocial for that
16:52:38 <vwbusguy-> nirik, essentially will this make #Fedora ops #Fedora-social-ops ?
16:52:50 <nirik> vwbusguy-: it can be seperate...
16:53:12 <JukeBoxHero> EvilBob: is -antisocial a really serious channel?
16:53:18 <JukeBoxHero> i thought it was just for kics
16:53:19 <EvilBob> JukeBoxHero: yup
16:53:21 <JukeBoxHero> kicks*
16:53:59 <nirik> yeah, it's seperate. I can add everyone to that, or just people who hang out in social and want it.
16:54:04 * vwbusguy- doesn't want to be an op in #Fedora-social
16:54:11 <EvilBob> it exists, it is rarely used, normally we send people ther just so they can be kicked, banned, muted...
16:55:08 <nirik> so, op fedbot, give status to people who hang out there and want it, see if that works out, revisit? Any other proposals?
16:55:29 <Sonar_Guy> +1
16:55:36 <JukeBoxHero> fair enough
16:55:40 <nirik> I guess another would be: do nothing and just keep going as we had. ;)
16:55:45 <vwbusguy-> nirik, why not give fedbot access to current fedora-social ops + EvilBob for #Fedora-social ?
16:55:46 <EvilBob> is that "all that want it" ?
16:56:03 <EvilBob> or should there be a review?
16:56:57 <nirik> well, It shouldn't be just everyone I would guess, or else it's going to include some of the people we want to police. ;)
16:57:04 * JukeBoxHero votes for EvilBob
16:57:25 <vwbusguy-> nirik, and being selective then could lead to hurt feelings somewhere
16:57:41 <nirik> so could kicking disruptive people out. ;)
16:57:48 <EvilBob> nirik: also can some bans be limited? like a 60 minute max, any others need to be a normal op?
16:57:49 <vwbusguy-> haha
16:58:12 <vwbusguy-> EvilBob, well, fedbot has a ban function that can be indefinite
16:58:22 <EvilBob> vwbusguy-: that is why I ask
16:58:25 <vwbusguy-> it's open source so I guess it could be hacked
16:58:33 <nirik> EvilBob: I don't think there is a way to do that currently. If you have access to doign a kban/ban you can do any size one.
16:58:43 * nirik nods. Someone could patch it.
16:58:55 <EvilBob> vwbusguy-: community-ops vs std-ops
16:59:19 <EvilBob> community-ops have equal but shorter term power
16:59:38 <EvilBob> Jut a thought, we can look at the code
16:59:40 * nirik looks. There is a 'half ops' thing.
17:00:07 <EvilBob> that might be useable for this
17:00:19 <vwbusguy-> as far as bans go... Regualr #Fedora-social ops ar ealmost always reachable
17:00:21 <EvilBob> we should not take up much more meeting time on this IMO
17:00:49 <EvilBob> mether has a topic and not sure what else there is
17:01:00 <nirik> yeah, doesn't seem a clear consenses... perhaps revisit later.
17:01:24 <nirik> I don't think it's urgent.
17:01:33 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
17:01:35 <zcat> wait till something really blows up, then react :)
17:01:38 <EvilBob> take a vote on the concept?
17:01:43 <JukeBoxHero> the other #fedora-social regulars don't want a say?
17:01:52 <JukeBoxHero> i see many missing..
17:02:04 <nirik> JukeBoxHero: ask them to attend next weeks meeting?
17:02:12 <nirik> and we can revisit there.
17:02:16 <EvilBob> JukeBoxHero: most don't want to be involved in "running" the channel
17:02:17 <JukeBoxHero> hmm ok will do.
17:02:33 <nirik> ok, anyone have anything for open floor? mether ?
17:02:41 <EvilBob> they just want a place to hang and goof off
17:03:02 <nirik> yeah, which is what it should be....
17:03:12 <nirik> just occasionally drunken ranting happens. ;)
17:03:16 <EvilBob> heh
17:03:23 <JukeBoxHero> *cough*
01:45:41 * cough* 
17:03:24 <EvilBob> mether: take it away
17:03:33 <mether> yeah. I just wanted to note the LXDE Fedora Remix I have announced recently is just Fedora 11 GA LXDE packages in a Live CD. no third party packages. so if someone comes for support,  do provide help
17:03:34 <nirik> perhaps we could have a sobriety test. ;)
17:03:57 <nirik> mether: yeah, excellent. Is there going to be an updated one soon?
17:03:57 <vwbusguy-> <EvilBob> JukeBoxHero: most don't want to be involved in "running" the channel <--- true
17:04:08 <EvilBob> mether: has that been an issue with someone not supporting it? Don't name names.
17:04:29 <mether> EvilBob, no. i am not aware of any issues but since there was some confusion over omega earlier, I just wanted to note this
17:04:40 <EvilBob> mether: rock on
17:05:01 <zcat> you're GREEN :) http://jasonfarrell.com/fedora/fedorasupport/what-does-fedora-support.png
17:05:06 <vwbusguy-> mether, will there be a f11 Omega by chance?
17:05:06 <EvilBob> mether: are you keeping abreast with all the spins?
17:05:18 <mether> nirik, wickert was very upset with me for not informing him explicitly ahead of time so I dont plan on doing updates but I think he will carry it forward
17:05:47 <nirik> #info The LXDE remix is stock fedora packages and should be supported by #fedora
17:05:48 <mether> vwbusguy-, i am working on it. need to test it a little bit more. should be done by the weekend
17:05:57 <mether> EvilBob, yes
17:06:15 <EvilBob> mether: would you mind passing this info on to us when ever you can.
17:06:28 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  if it is all fedora packages then it is a respin correct
17:06:40 <EvilBob> mether: I know I don't have time to track them, and I respect your view on them
17:06:40 <ldimaggi_> jlaska, ping
17:06:42 <mether> EvilBob, sure.
17:06:49 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: not until it's been approved and gone through the spin process. ;) This one hasn't yet.
17:06:59 <mether> Southern_Gentlem, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix
17:07:10 <nirik> ok, anyone have anything further for Open Floor?
17:07:15 <vwbusguy-> mether, if you need another tester, PM or email me :-)
17:07:20 <nirik> any suggestions/gripes/comments?
17:07:31 <ldimaggi_> jlaska, Got your email - will reply today....
17:07:41 <mether> vwbusguy-, i am upload and drop a PM a while before i send the announcement to confirm. alright?
17:07:42 <ldimaggi_> jlaska, In the mean-time - check this out!   http://www.ebizq.net/industrywatch/2261.html
17:07:56 <nirik> ldimaggi_: wrong channel?
17:07:56 <vwbusguy-> mether, ok
17:08:13 <jlaska> ldimaggi_: let's chat elsewhere ...
17:08:17 <mether> ok folks. thanks
17:08:30 <ldimaggi_> jlaska, Oh - the meeting - sorry!
17:08:41 * nirik will close things out soon if there is no more topics
17:08:44 <EvilBob> nirik: is there  a opinion on the channel hopping abuser from a couple weeks ago
17:08:50 <mether> nirik, is there a generic policy on supporting remixs
17:09:14 <Southern_Gentlem> EvilBob,  yeah shhhhh let sleeping dogs lie
17:09:15 <nirik> EvilBob: not sure. Perhaps after the meeting talk to whoever banned them?
17:09:18 <EvilBob> nirik: are the bans still in effect? if so should they be lifted?
17:09:39 <nirik> mether: well, the closer it is to fedora the more we can help...
17:09:54 <EvilBob> nirik: more thinking about general policy on such flagrant abusers
17:09:54 <nirik> EvilBob: I'm not sure if they are or not. We should check yes.
17:09:59 <Southern_Gentlem> EvilBob,  at this point i want to give that person a couple more weeks
17:11:03 <EvilBob> that is all I had, maybe add that to next week's meeting
17:11:14 <nirik> ok.
17:11:25 * nirik will close the meeting in 60 seconds.
17:12:25 <nirik> #endmeeting