16:29:57 <nirik> #startmeeting
16:30:04 * Sonar_Guy is here
16:30:04 <nirik> #meetingtopic IRC Support SIG
16:30:12 * EvilBob 
16:30:14 * Southern_Gentlem here
16:30:29 <nirik> #topic Init Process
16:31:09 * nirik waits a bit for folks to arrive.
16:32:07 <EvilBob> Anticipation, anticipation, Is makin' me late, Is keepin' me waitin'
16:32:16 * zcat /me
16:32:30 * Sonar_Guy uses ball-gag on EvilBob
16:32:32 * nirik is thinking about katsup for some reason
16:32:46 <nirik> anyhow, I guess we can go ahead and get started.
16:32:52 <nirik> #topic weekly stats
16:33:04 <nirik> http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as always.
16:33:14 <nirik> Seems like it's been a pretty quiet week overall in the channel
16:33:56 <nirik> anything anyone wants to bring up about stats? Nothing really stands out here.
16:34:46 <Southern_Gentlem> same ole same ole
16:35:10 <nirik> yeah.
16:35:18 <nirik> #topic some announcements
16:35:19 <zcat> hmm. i would've dropped out of the top 25 if not for the dozen odd lines i had to repeat from xchat's input history :)
16:35:35 <nirik> so, a few things I would like to note:
16:35:49 <nirik> INFO: F9 EOL is tomorrow (2009-07-10)
16:35:52 * thomasj here
16:36:07 <nirik> everyone remember that F9 eols tomorrow...
16:36:17 <oshan> eol?
16:36:21 * Southern_Gentlem celebrates
16:36:23 <oshan> end of the line?
16:36:27 <Southern_Gentlem> life
16:36:31 <Sonar_Guy> oshan: take a look at the link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Fedora-EOL-Support and please upgrade to a maintained version of Fedora. For any further questions join #fedora-eol.
16:36:31 <zcat> like tears... in the rain
16:36:39 <kc8hfi> deader than a doornail, pushin up daisies, 6 feet under
16:37:06 <oshan> na na wht does eol stands for?
16:37:08 <nirik> so, we need to note that in the topic and steer people to upgrading/eol support.
16:37:14 <oshan> end of life is it?
16:37:15 <nirik> oshan: End Of Life
16:37:17 <Sonar_Guy> oshan: read the link
16:37:27 <EvilBob> WOW
16:37:29 <nirik> anything else we need to do for this?
16:38:07 <nirik> ok, next announcement/info I had:
16:38:27 <nirik> INFO: get folks to try https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/b43-openfwwf-5.1-3.fc11 before going to the broadcom firmware cutter stuff.
16:38:40 <nirik> there is now a free broadcom firmware. Works on some chips...
16:38:59 <nirik> we should get the fedorasolved howto updated and suggest people install the free one first to see if it works for them.
16:39:16 <thomasj> good plan
16:39:33 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: I think it should go on the wiki as it is supported by the Project proper
16:39:48 <Southern_Gentlem> we will when it is in stable
16:39:57 <nirik> Sonar_Guy: ok, but then it can't say to try the non free cutter route.
16:40:14 <Sonar_Guy> we can include that, with a link to the wiki post
16:40:42 * nirik shrugs. Either way. We can do a wiki page easily enough.
16:41:04 <Southern_Gentlem> both :0
16:41:29 <nirik> in any case, I wanted people to know it was there. ;)
16:41:44 <nirik> is anyone willing to write up the wiki page? :)
16:42:12 <Southern_Gentlem> khayatis is trying it out
16:42:21 <Sonar_Guy> I would but I do not have the hardware to test and do the write up with.
16:42:30 <nirik> ok. Yeah, I have no bcm here either. ;)
16:42:36 <Southern_Gentlem> so after he tests it we can proable get him to write it up
16:42:45 <nirik> cool.
16:43:16 <nirik> #nick Khaytsus
16:43:31 <nirik> #action Khaytsus will write up a page on the broadcom firmware.
16:43:42 <Southern_Gentlem> will be asked to
16:44:02 <nirik> #undo
16:44:20 <nirik> #action khaytsus will be asked to write up a page on the new free broadcom firmware.
16:44:43 <nirik> thats all I had on announcements/info... anyone else have anything or shall we move on?
16:45:06 <Southern_Gentlem> move on
16:45:26 <nirik> #topic Classes
16:45:51 <nirik> ok, just thought I would ask here for anyone willing to teach an irc class. We have moved to a new setup.
16:46:08 <nirik> As long as you schedule your class 2 weeks in advance you can schedule it anytime that works for you.
16:46:12 <Southern_Gentlem> i want to when i have time to sit down and create it
16:46:17 <nirik> See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom for more info
16:46:58 <nirik> Classes don't need to be elaborate... you can discuss how to help people on irc, or show support resources, or take something from the suggestions list.
16:47:14 <nirik> #halp Teachers needed for Classes.
16:47:25 <nirik> anyhow, just thought I would mention it again in case anyone is interested.
16:47:32 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:47:52 <nirik> Thats all I had. Anyone have any items they would like to bring up? Ways we can improve? suggestions?
16:48:24 <EvilBob> A user today asked about some new xserver being developed by Red Hat
16:48:54 <nirik> oh? any link or more info?
16:49:06 <EvilBob> When there is no real IRC resource it is odd to try to explain to them
16:49:36 <EvilBob> I guess I could have pointed out that "Fedora is not Red Hat"
16:50:13 <Sonar_Guy> I have noticed that some users are being targeted because they are annoying or should know better, this is not the best way to foster community interest in Fedora.  If you can not be polite and direct those users to -social or another forum, you need to take a break from the channel. The kick yesterday for the linux news link was just ridiculous.
16:50:16 <EvilBob> I suggested he ask ajax in -devel
16:50:26 <nirik> yeah. I suppose you can point them to #rhel? might know more there.
16:50:49 <ianweller> (about the openssh thing?)
16:51:44 <nirik> Sonar_Guy: agreed. If you find your self getting personally involved in a particular user, it's time to step back and let others deal with it.
16:52:13 <nirik> ianweller: ?
16:52:18 <ianweller> nvm.
16:52:33 <Southern_Gentlem> Sonar_Guy,  fine bye
16:52:44 <EvilBob> "<user>  Is there any one who knows Wayland ?"
16:52:59 <EvilBob> that is what I was referring to
16:53:23 <nirik> EvilBob: ah, I have heard the name but don't know anything further about it.
16:53:46 <_Hicham_> I think that there should be more discussion about Mono
16:54:01 <EvilBob> _Hicham_: this is not the time
16:54:15 <_Hicham_> EvilBob : what is this meeting for?
16:54:19 <EvilBob> _Hicham_: this is about IRC support
16:54:23 <nirik> anyone have anything else for open floor?
16:54:29 <_Hicham_> EvilBob : ok
16:54:45 <nirik> _Hicham_: yeah, this is the folks that help users in #fedora. :) Not really a good forum for mono discussion...
16:55:05 <_Hicham_> nirik : ok, I understand
16:55:22 * nirik will close the meeting here in 60 sec unless someone has something else to bring up.
16:55:38 <EvilBob> nirik: I have an item
16:55:44 <nirik> EvilBob: go ahead
16:56:21 <thomasj> _Hicham_, you can read up the -devel ML archive
16:56:34 <EvilBob> nirik: Southern refused to finish this meeting because hit actions were questioned, also left Fedora-Ops, should his op privs in #fedora be removed until next week?
16:56:39 <_Hicham_> thanks tomasj
16:56:48 <EvilBob> s/hit/his
16:57:19 <nirik> EvilBob: I don't think thats productive unless he tries to misuse them.
16:57:31 <EvilBob> nirik: if he is unwilling to get feedback or criticism I would think limiting his powers would be justified
16:57:46 <kc8hfi> can I kick somebody, nobody in particular, just a random person just for the heck of it?
16:57:57 <thomasj> no
16:58:03 * kc8hfi kicks himself
16:58:27 <thomasj> Oh, i thought kick out of the channel.. =)
16:58:27 <zcat> -1   let deflate instead of amplify
16:58:30 <EvilBob> kc8hfi: no. but if you do apparently you can storm out, without peer review
16:58:35 <nirik> EvilBob: sure. I don't know what prompted him to leave or what he was so upset about though... perhaps we should just ask him when he comes back?
16:58:38 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: that attitude is what caused this sig to be formed
16:59:33 <EvilBob> I have said my piece, if you don't want others to question your actions you have no business having the power that may be abused
17:00:25 <EvilBob> He likes to make examples out of people, turnabout is fair play
17:00:32 <nirik> I agree, but I think removal of privs is hasty... lets find out more, if he doesn't want to get any feedback or does things that are thought of poorly by the group, then it's time to remove them.
17:01:29 <nirik> he may simply have gotten busy at work and didn't have time to explain himself. Of course he could have just said that.
17:01:39 <EvilBob> he is my friend but business is business
17:01:46 <EvilBob> nirik: no
17:02:01 <nirik> if everyone else wants to restrict him, we can do it, but I personally would like to get more info from him and revisit next week.
17:02:34 <EvilBob> nirik: it is behavior with a history in other projects
17:03:05 <mock> fwiw, cool down time might be best in this scenario as was suggested in the other forum
17:03:35 * mock retreats back into his corner
17:03:42 <nirik> should we vote? or ?
17:04:02 <EvilBob> how about rather than everyone for something how about anyone against?
17:04:12 <Sonar_Guy> mock: +1 give him time to cool down, My comment was not directed at him in particular, but more so at the behavior I have been seeing
17:04:22 <EvilBob> Sonar_Guy: exactly
17:04:53 <kc8hfi> lets not be hasty.  we don't want another hanging chad incident, or bought off elections
17:05:23 <nirik> +1 against removing any privs for now, but revisit next week
17:05:26 * EvilBob has no vote in *Ops* related issues other than being the Devil's Advocate
17:05:37 <thomasj> Ask him why he left first.
17:05:41 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: +1
17:06:07 <Sonar_Guy> but i say revisit when he comes back
17:07:18 <nirik> ok, I say we do that then... I see more support for that than doing anything now.
17:07:44 * nirik has to get to real work soon. Shall we close out the meeting now?
17:08:35 <EvilBob> wrap it up
17:09:01 * nirik sticks a fork in it.
17:09:05 <nirik> #endmeeting