20:02:28 #startmeeting 20:02:35 * ianweller 20:02:40 is there a #troll option? 20:02:43 here 20:02:49 * stickster 20:02:52 here 20:02:52 spevack: we could add one 20:03:15 * ianweller goes to get some chocolate, will be back by the end of roll call 20:03:21 * mchua is running this one last time while themayor recovers from jetlag :) wb, Jack! 20:03:29 ok, agenda is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_F12_schedule 20:03:38 followed by the usual open floor 20:03:42 let's get down to business. 20:04:10 First up: $FooBar has a name and platform, thanks to ianweller and JonRob for driving this. 20:04:24 yea verily, it will be called Fedora Insight and run on Zikula. 20:04:49 welcome cseay! 20:04:54 cseay: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_F12_schedule 20:04:55 * stickster applauds 20:05:04 so something that puzzled me about zikula 20:05:08 anybody have any huuuuuge last minute dislikes about either of those decisions? 20:05:19 rharrison: go for it 20:05:32 mchua: danke 20:05:33 someone mentioned that it had an excelent security record but I found it was based on PostNuke which had a terible one. 20:06:07 * ianweller goes to poke certain people 20:06:12 just currious. I don't want to stir the pot on the platform at this stage. 20:06:26 ianweller, can you take care of followup on rharrison's note? 20:06:30 rharrison: Actually, pn's security record over the last 5 years *is* exceptional 20:06:37 follow up done :) 20:06:43 * mchua grins 20:06:55 any big blockers on foobar platform or name? if not, moving on 20:06:57 The folks who did the review of platforms retrieved stats for it along with many tohers 20:07:00 oh god this twix bar is leaking 20:07:04 (is Sparks_ in here?) 20:07:34 I guess post nuke has changed a bit in that time. I think its been about 5 years since I last had to use it. Back then it made me want to break things, but 5 years is a long time to make a bunch of improvements. 20:08:05 anything else? 20:08:11 rharrison: thanks for your concern :) 20:08:20 mchua wireless died and she is trying to get back in 20:08:31 i was hoping pascal would be here to confirm for the news team 20:08:50 but i don't think we should hold on them 20:09:41 JonRob: It sounded from the brief conversation on the f-news-l like they're on board with us at this point, correct? 20:09:49 as far as i can tell 20:10:00 but i would *love* more input from them! 20:10:19 * mchua curses wifi 20:10:24 evil clones must die 20:10:38 * onekopaka_laptop hands mchua a long ethernet cable 20:10:41 Sounds like FI is happily moving forward. 20:10:56 export FOOBAR=Insight 20:10:57 ianweller, btw, love the ligature idea 20:10:58 :) 20:11:05 * stickster wonders if we should use F so as not to collide with FI=Fedora Infrastructure 20:11:07 it seems that next steps = getting a beta up, and getting started on design. 20:11:08 JonRob: you can always expect a typography nerd to come up with that :) 20:11:13 ianweller ligature +1 20:11:14 so what are the next steps/milestones for Insight? 20:11:23 beta up, design draft. 20:11:25 stickster: i don't often see FI=Fedora Infrastructure 20:11:27 stickster: fwiw 20:11:37 mchua: in parallel, i'd like it if we started planning content and workflow 20:11:49 beta up, design draft, content/workflow plan. 20:11:58 volunteers? 20:12:29 * JonRob would happily take the latter, with plenty of help :p 20:12:35 Hi :) 20:12:44 JonRob, you're doing awesome stuff with News and all the other groups we need to be coordinating with, so yay! 20:12:48 moixs: hey! 20:12:57 that leaves getting the beta up and getting a design draft going 20:13:00 mizmo: ^^^ design team! 20:13:18 what if we ping the design-team list and make a general call for help 20:13:22 and then file tickets as necessary 20:13:26 ianweller: +1 20:13:30 ianweller: wanna holler? 20:13:32 yeah sure 20:13:41 #action JonRob to make workflow/content plan 20:13:50 #action ianweller to ping design list for help with FI 20:13:55 infrastructure? 20:13:57 #action ianweller to eat this banana 20:13:57 ;) 20:14:15 ianweller: lol. 20:14:40 If there aren't any immediate takers for getting up a zikula-based FI beta ( ianweller? not sure what your bandwidth looks like ) I'll find someone. 20:14:55 mchua: my physical bandwidth is a bendystraw 20:14:58 mchua: at this point it might be good to speak with docs 20:15:01 if that makes any sense whatsoever 20:15:08 * onekopaka_laptop has not good bandwidth but has a server of some sort 20:15:11 see if they have beta plans, share their work 20:15:13 pascal_calarco here; sorry I am late 20:15:15 JonRob + 1 20:15:17 mchua: I think that the Docs team is currently working on that very task 20:15:23 hey pcalarco, welcome! 20:15:27 pcalacro: hey :) 20:15:35 damnit 20:15:37 banana fail 20:15:52 mchua: i mean that stuff can fit but it takes some time to get it done :) 20:16:13 is anyone already hanging out with docs who can check in on zikula progress, and find out what we have to do to get a FI setup? 20:16:18 mchua: Docs is currently packaging everything, and uncovering some licensing problems they're working through with the upstream. Is that what you meant by a FI setup? 20:16:42 mchua: I'm basically doing that 20:16:50 Ian is also a principal guy there too 20:16:58 stickster, ianweller: yay! 20:17:23 stickster, ianweller: estimates on when we can have a FI demo live, or could you find out? 20:17:43 whenever we get a strong spec of what we need 20:17:52 we definitely should talk with docs/upstream to see what modules we need for zikula 20:18:16 wasn't that the point of the reqs section on the wiki? 20:18:27 i mean... obv next step is to talk to upstream based on those reqs 20:18:39 * mchua nods 20:18:47 how's this, since we need to move on to non-FI marketing topics: 20:19:01 Well, in this case, upstream can tell us the modules we need, and then work with Docs to get things packaged as needed. 20:19:15 * stickster suspects many of the basics are included already. 20:19:25 JonRob has workflow, ianweller is poking design, and he and stickster are looking at the logistics list and poking upstream. 20:19:32 right on 20:19:40 ready *break 20:19:44 * ianweller murders RHT's vpn again 20:19:54 pcalarco: could we meet sometime to discuss News workflow etc? 20:20:06 might be good to do it on IRC rather than e-mail 20:20:24 I can own the spec for this week (unless someone wants to take that task from me ;) and poke people to get final request rounds in, and make sure stickster and ianweller have what they need from Marketing to bring to the broader zikula-logistics discussion. 20:20:27 with upstream and such. 20:20:45 hiiii 20:21:12 #action stickster and ianweller to continue watching logistics/docs zikula discussion, push Marketing specs/reqs up as needed 20:21:22 JonRob: sure, we can set something up that works 20:21:36 pcalarco: will e-mail to arrange a time later 20:21:42 #action JonRob and pcalarco to meet and discuss News workflow for FI 20:21:43 ;) 20:21:52 JonRob: excellent, thx 20:22:07 #action mchua to poke various groups for final spec requests for FI, pass to stickster and ianweller 20:22:15 Any other FI stuff? We need to move on to non-FI stuff. 20:22:21 * stickster says you're good to go 20:22:22 i can't think of anything 20:22:29 K, onwards! 20:23:01 I don't think Sparks_ is here (he didn't respond earlier) so I'll poke at "docs/Marketing release notes workflow" on-list. 20:23:25 themayor, stickster: Face of Fedora video campaign - need anything? 20:23:45 ianweller, themayor: Fedora (Picture) Book - need anything? 20:23:56 mchua: other than more photos, no :) 20:24:05 * ianweller could probably abuse POSSE as a time to get photos... 20:24:05 I added that on the list from the old marketing to do list 20:24:11 more photos, did we ever end up chaning the submission process 20:24:23 Don't know if we even should have it up there (te video campaign) 20:24:30 ianweller: abuse away. 20:24:46 * onekopaka_laptop needs to sign that one form.. 20:25:03 if there are no blockers on the picture book or the video campaign that we need to cover here, we can move on :) 20:25:15 i think we will hold off on the face of fedora and make that part of foobar 20:25:20 once its up and running 20:25:33 themayor: noted. I'll edit the wiki page to say that. 20:25:52 #agreed Face of Fedora --> FI 20:25:53 themayor: exactly what I was thinking, remove it then. 20:25:57 :) 20:26:33 Ok. Fedora Classroom... nobody actively bit on the mailing list last week, so I'll try to teach a class sometime this summer on something Marketing-related. 20:26:53 themayor: oh there you are :) 20:26:54 (Or... probably I'm going to get SeanDaly from Sugar Labs to come in and give us a crash-course on what he does. He's a professional marketer.) 20:27:23 mchua: that would be pretty cool :) 20:27:35 +1 20:27:39 #action mchua find out if SeanDaly wants to teach a Classroom class on marketing 20:27:51 I think that takes care of Classroom, Picture Book, and Face. 20:28:11 * mchua waits a bit to make sure nobody is screaming "wait stop no it doesn't!" 20:28:23 .....ok! 20:28:38 next topic: spevack brought up netbooks on-list. 20:28:48 see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-July/msg00068.html and https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-July/msg00069.html threads for context 20:28:59 * spevack refreshes his memory on what he wrote 20:29:10 basically, should we have a mini-campaign (read: wiki page resource, at least) targeted towards netbook users, going "you do want to use Fedora on your netbook!" 20:29:25 or more usefully, "would anybody like to do this?" 20:29:36 i liked the suggestion of at least listing what hardware works with fedora 20:29:48 and think we should note that there's already fedora-mini sig with an interest in this area 20:29:55 ...really? Ooo. 20:30:02 who probably have knowledge, perhaps just wants someone to write it up 20:30:08 It's quite "stupid" in fact, all hardware works except the Poulsbo 20:30:23 I wonder if this is best done w/ components 20:30:25 * stickster thinks he should get Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst to list his HP 2133 experiences there ;-D 20:30:26 or w/ netbook models 20:30:26 moixs: not broadcom wifi 20:30:40 I can imagine a big grid both ways, but I think breakdown by models seems best. 20:30:42 some of them have weird ethernet cards 20:30:48 spevack +1 20:30:48 JonRob: ok, but that's not different than every other laptop 20:30:51 well, there's https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Netbooks and http://jfsaucier.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/fedora-netbook-remix/, http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=199199... 20:30:52 basically a place for people to say "I have $FOO and here's the report card" 20:31:09 SMOLT 20:31:11 sounds like the minisig (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/FedoraMini) is a good group to tap. 20:31:16 moixs: +1 20:31:22 Smolt is crappy at showing things in a condensed report card interface. 20:31:23 moixs, +1 20:31:33 true 20:31:35 (And that's not a slam on smolt, I think mmcgrath would agree that the UI needs work.) 20:31:38 setting aside the details -- here's the end goal that i envision 20:31:44 so the smolt wiki component needs some love 20:31:53 What I propose is to write a series of articles featuring netbooks when we have foobar up 20:32:09 basically I just want some way of saying with authority "If you are going to buy a netbook (or even a laptop) and run Fedora on it, these models work 100%" 20:32:22 and see that various people are +1'ing that 20:32:54 yes, although is a wiki page a good solution? i know wiki is easy, but i'm always a little dubious about how well maintained/referenced/easy to access wiki stuff is 20:33:01 so are we talking ThinkWiki style or something less than that? 20:33:03 * onekopaka_laptop is doing metrics on smolt 20:33:07 speed 20:33:17 rharrison: thinkwiki? 20:33:20 * spevack googles 20:33:22 * mchua proposes asking the mini sig if they'd like to own that, with help from marketing to make it shiny and push the info to the right places 20:33:25 * JonRob notes that no one actually mentioned wiki... getting ahead 20:33:33 spevack: I think there are going to be numerous cases of 95% where we need to explain the gap 20:33:35 thinkwiki.org 20:33:47 its for thinkpads but its incredibly good for those 20:33:55 * stickster notes thinkwiki was *the* place he always went first when he had ThinkPads 20:33:58 stickster: is there a better way to get to what I'm describing? 20:34:03 I wish it was simply expanded to all laptops. 20:34:07 spevack: better than what? 20:34:10 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/FedoraMini 20:34:11 better than a grid? 20:34:12 +1 rharrison 20:34:15 (for future ref) 20:34:24 yeah, i guess stickster 20:35:04 So there's another opportunity here as well. 20:35:05 spevack: I think a grid works well for 100%, and anywhere there's less than that, link out to a wiki page. 20:35:11 100% == total out of the box happiness. 20:35:23 If I have to take a single step other than installing, that's < 100%. 20:35:25 which is just filling in information on places like thinkwiki or the linuxquestions wiki. 20:36:09 another way might be to put the howto's on the fp.o wiki and make sure links exist on the others... 20:36:40 rharrison +1 on info-upstream 20:36:44 I do feel a hardware section to the docs would be very valuable. 20:36:48 tell you what. I want to make sure we're going to get through the "6 weeks before alpha" tasks - any objections to running through the 5 things on there real quick, then (if there are no other topics) spending the rest of our time on netbooks? 20:36:55 it sounds like there's a lot to say and a ton of ideas here. 20:37:01 mchua: that's fine 20:37:13 rharrison, stickster, ok? 20:37:25 we'll be quick. :) 20:37:33 mchua: Right on the money, time-sensitive stuff at the top. 20:37:35 sounds good 20:37:47 * stickster is ashamed he's not looking at the schedule, or would have suggested that 20:37:49 ok. poelcat , spevack, themayor : integrate Marketing F12 schedule into main F12 schedule 20:38:01 'sup with that? 20:38:12 poelstra sent a note to fedora-marketing-list today 20:38:31 asking for us to select a time next week for the meeting to do that, and with some pre-meeting stuff he'd like us to achieve 20:39:06 themayor: I'd like you to run with that, because the F12 schedule is yours to manage, since you are doing a second iteration of the F11 processes 20:39:09 that you helped to put in place 20:39:30 it's high priority, and needs to happen according to the schedule that poelcat has asked for. 20:40:21 okay 20:40:45 I have a pending item for that schedule that needs to be integrated 20:41:01 It's a marketing task, I even have suggested dates that mesh well with the required Design and Websites task 20:41:08 *tasks and schedules. 20:41:15 * stickster sends to list. 20:42:57 * onekopaka_laptop thinks mchua_ really really really hates wifi. 20:43:13 onekopaka_laptop: RHT is being really weird with their network :/ 20:43:21 WIFI FAIL 20:43:22 ianweller, mchua: it's that RHGUEST network 20:43:25 * mchua is fortunately next to ianweller and caught up by shouldersurfing. 20:43:27 #action themayor to schedule F12 schedule sync-up with poelcat and others who should attend 20:43:27 it kept booting me off yesterday 20:43:27 spevack: i know 20:43:47 ianweller, mchua: you should get on rh-wireless instead 20:43:47 #action themayor to report on Alpha Readiness Meeting prep next week 20:44:03 * mchua will do that post-meeting 20:44:19 ok, f12 schedule and alpha readiness moving right along. 20:44:22 * onekopaka_laptop wonders where ianweller and mchua are.. 20:44:23 stickster, talking points? 20:44:25 "This tasks starts at feature freeze on 7/28. We want a talking points draft by 7/28 and a final by August 4, so we'll revisit on 8/21 and Paul can grab some volunteers then." 20:44:49 onekopaka_laptop: we're at the Raleigh offices of Red Hat, at http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_2009 20:44:56 i can explain talking points 20:44:58 it's quite simple 20:45:04 mchua: Raleigh. 20:45:06 they are developed over the course of the release 20:45:15 we use feature freeze 20:45:23 as a snapshot to begin crafting the general story that the release might tell 20:45:23 mchua: that's too far away. 20:45:26 identifying key features 20:45:33 for users, developers, sysadmins, visionaries 20:45:37 different types of Fedora consumer 20:45:40 that they might find most interesting 20:45:42 * ianweller needs to log in/out real fast 20:45:49 how do we select those things? 20:45:54 spevack: Well spoken sir 20:45:56 (1) general level of coolness 20:46:03 (2) likelyhood that the feature will make the release 20:46:10 the stuff that seems really cool, by identifying it now 20:46:18 we can help lean on those developers to ensure that the feature makes F12 20:46:21 etc 20:46:27 EOF 20:46:47 spevack: mchua: I think we may have found a schedule dependency that needs to be fixed... 20:46:55 7/28 is feature freeze and some features are still landing 20:47:03 Oh wait 20:47:06 * onekopaka_laptop notes that people are using landfill bugzilla 20:47:08 It doesn't need to be fixed, it's correct. 20:47:11 *starts* 7/28. 20:47:18 Then we're on target! ;-) 20:47:20 * rharrison is in Raleigh... 20:47:21 #action mchua to take spevack's eloquence and update https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcements/TalkingPoints and redirect [[Talking Points]] to that 20:47:22 * onekopaka_laptop also laughs again at Complaintzilla's bug #1. 20:47:23 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1 low, low, ---, bugzilla-maint, CLOSED NOTABUG, test bug 20:48:05 stickster: just making sure you've got what you need (which sounds like "nothing 'till next week" - anything needed now?) 20:48:29 mchua: I don't think so, other than to kick off a T-minus-1-week "What's looking cool" thread? 20:48:35 yep 20:48:49 stickster: want to kick off that thread? 20:48:56 mchua: Already on it! 20:49:10 #action stickster kicking off a T-minus-1-week "What's looking cool" thread 20:49:25 * mchua bows to stickster, guru of asskickingness 20:49:39 two last things! then netbook time! 20:49:41 moixs: Renew the news distribution network people list to always have motivated people 20:50:01 actually, one last thing since themayor is also on "Renew the news distribution network people list to always have motivated people" for next week 20:50:10 er, wait 20:50:20 I mean themayor is on the "Publications list" task 20:50:34 mchua: in progress, I contacted the people I don't feel motivated, more next week. 20:50:42 #action themayor to report back on Publications List progress 20:50:48 moixs: w00t. so, same thing next week then 20:51:03 #action moixs to report back on news distribution network next week 20:51:04 mchua: it's not that urgent until we spam the media, that's not right now 20:51:06 * mchua nods 20:51:20 moixs: consider that item optional then :) 20:51:34 and we are DONE! with the agenda, except for open floor and netbooks. 20:51:42 anything other than netbooks that people want to talk about today? 20:51:46 do we not already have a publications list? 20:51:55 JonRob: yes 20:52:04 JonRob: yeah, I'm not... entirely sure what themayor means by that task, I'm assuming it's an update task? 20:52:10 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_press_publications 20:52:12 ok 20:52:14 I'll ramble for a moment about Netbooks 20:52:26 * JonRob must run 20:52:27 I have a few thoughts: 20:52:30 its about getting a list of things we need to produce 20:52:34 cheers all 20:52:51 themayor: ah ok, the task isn't clear on the wiki :p 20:52:56 * mchua waves to JonRob - thanks! 20:52:59 (1) If we give people the right tool -- is it a wiki page -- is it trac -- is it something else -- and a template for grading their Netbook, then we will quickly get a lot of info 20:53:03 if we publicize it right 20:53:14 (2) Out of that torrent of info, I want to be able to quickly determine: 20:53:20 idk, honestly im zoned out, so i will get back to you on it if thats the right thing or not 20:53:26 "If I want to install F12, what Netbooks have the fedora community given their blessing to?" 20:53:50 So to me, this whole exercise comes down to choosing the right tool and making a good template 20:53:53 EOF 20:54:03 spevack +1 20:54:18 my question is how much of this is marketing and how much of this could be something exciting for the minisig to work on 20:54:18 I'd take a page right out of the thinkwiki book 20:55:07 make a good template for hardware in general and then create a release page that links to well supported options. 20:55:12 spevack: as the netbook market evolves very quickly, I don't feel that we should set up a wiki page about that...it will quickly be outdated. What I suggest is a series of articles (on foobar) featuring certain netbooks that work, associated with smolt profiles. 20:55:15 I note that there are two people in #fedora-mini now (the channel according to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/FedoraMini) - myself and sdziallas 20:55:30 I wouldn't do them as articals 20:55:46 once they're off the front page its like they never get found again. 20:55:58 I see people as asking two questions: "I want to get a netbook and I know I want to run Fedora on it. What netbook should I get?" 20:56:03 and yes, it's maybe not our work primarely, but we can serve as a means to tell people "hey, Fedory just works on this HW, you don't need a netbook remix" 20:56:05 and "I have this netbook. Can I run Fedora on it?" 20:56:13 moixs: i'm not interested in grading every single netbook -- i'm interested in letting people who have purchased one and are using a version of Fedora on it basically give their report card 20:56:18 what think wiki does is they take a laptop model and list its hardware. with links to the hardware categories for detail 20:56:50 rharrison: do you have any cycles to try to make something similar happen for Fedora, in whatever way you think is best? 20:57:03 mchua: Brilliant way of stating the questions 20:57:23 rharrison: if you can mobilize the folks at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/FedoraMini you'll have a tiny army to help. 20:57:57 I'm asking the qestion again, how is this different from other laptops? Or even desktops. Oh wait, that's RH's HCL. 20:58:00 If that's the case then one or two templates and maybe one example may be enough to get them going. 20:58:10 moixs, I don't think that it is. 20:58:23 only in that people are motivated about netbooks right now. 20:58:29 which makes it a good place to start. 20:58:35 rharrison: can you put that into proposal/exampe form this week and see if anyone from the mini sig bites? 20:58:48 It's not different, it just happens to be a much more limited hardware set, and therefore attainable in a reasonable time frame 20:58:48 s/exampe/example 20:58:59 I'm traveling this week but perhaps next. 20:59:08 rharrison: cool beans. 20:59:14 I'll revisit next week. 20:59:19 or rather, actually, themayor will. :) 20:59:25 We need to wrap up. Final thoughts? 20:59:31 closing in 5... 20:59:34 4... 20:59:36 ianweller: jetpacks! 20:59:38 3... 20:59:42 * ianweller dons it 20:59:42 * mchua dons jetpack 20:59:43 2... 20:59:44 do we have a netbook we know a bunch of details on? 20:59:47 rharrison: sure, but in the long run, should we provide a series of suggestions for laptops/desktops/servers that run fedora out of the box? Maybe associated with a HW mafg 20:59:52 rharrison: go look at [[Eee PC]] on the wiki 20:59:57 rharrison, moixs: we'll take it to the list. :) 20:59:58 1... 20:59:59 rharrison: it's slightly out of date but it's a relaly good page 21:00:02 #endmeeting