20:59:32 <smooge> #startmeeting EPEL
21:00:04 <smooge> Hello people. dgilmore f13 jds2001 Jeff_S jmeeuwen mpdehaan nirik smooge smooge stahnma vwbusguy quaid
21:00:15 <Jeff_S> hi
21:00:16 <quaid> hello
21:00:21 <Jeff_S> I'm kind of here.  sort of
21:00:26 <dgilmore> you rang
21:00:54 <smooge> hi guys I will be running the EPEL meeting for today. Nirik is in an emergency
21:01:01 <quaid> oi, g'luck to him
21:01:13 <smooge> I am trying to get the agenda
21:01:29 <smooge> #topic Dealing with incompatible upgrades. (any new ideas or suggestions?)
21:01:43 <smooge> Ok first item on the agenda was dealing with incompatible upgrades
21:02:19 <smooge> At this point we have had a couple of ideas but it looks like we are dealing with announce, throw into testing, announce, throw into stable
21:03:00 <smooge> trying to deal with things like moin-1.6 -> moin16 etc are just not inside of our bandwidth or time
21:03:07 <smooge> any other views on this?
21:04:50 <ricky> mediawiki 1.15 is another big example
21:05:10 <smooge> yes. I am looking at to do this to deal with various security upgrades
21:05:51 <ricky> They were kind enough to make a 1.14.1 package with the fix as well, for what that's worth
21:05:52 * jds2001 here
21:06:07 <smooge> ah ok
21:06:13 <ricky> There are other cases where things are not as conveinent though
21:06:19 <ricky> For example, nagios has a shell execution vulnerability
21:06:23 <ricky> And nagios 2 is kind of dead.
21:07:17 <jds2001> yeah :(
21:07:50 <jds2001> i think the idea is to announce via epel-announce, and JFDI
21:07:56 <jds2001> as lame as that is.
21:08:19 <ricky> Thankfully that's patched in our package :-)
21:08:39 <smooge> that is my view on it also. I think our ability to do long term support of items is not in our manpower
21:09:02 <jds2001> if it's easy, great
21:09:16 <jds2001> how bout something like "incompatible upgrades SHOULD be avoided"
21:09:23 <jds2001> if that's impossible, oh well.
21:10:28 <smooge> I think thats the best we can do. Trying for other items without 'paid' for time is going to be haphazard at best
21:10:56 <jds2001> and even with full time bodies, success is not assured.
21:11:58 * jds2001 notes the critical NSS vuln from today, which updates the library
21:12:15 <jds2001> or recently, if my days are blending together :)
21:13:16 <smooge> sometime within the last 24-48 hours
21:13:41 <jds2001> anyhow, shall we move on if we dont have anything else here?
21:13:43 <smooge> is there anything more? I think we are pretty much on agreement about that.
21:14:01 <smooge> #topic Wiki pages cleanup.
21:14:08 <smooge> quaid, this might be you
21:14:19 <quaid> yeah, it might be!
21:14:39 <quaid> um, it's on my list in an appropriate priority
21:14:51 <smooge> 77 out of a thousand?
21:14:56 <jds2001> an "appropriate priority" :)
21:14:56 <quaid> but worth mentioning that I am doing it in three-ish phases
21:15:06 <quaid> one - figure out what is there and what it should be
21:15:13 <quaid> - which includes defining categories
21:15:20 <quaid> - so will show that to list for input
21:15:33 <quaid> two - start changing page names, adding to categories
21:15:34 <smooge> ok
21:15:47 <quaid> three- get bored and hope others start pitching in, adding new content in categories, etc.
21:16:07 <quaid> buy-in during 'one' means more help during 'three', or so I hope
21:16:32 <quaid> umm, I'll see if I can get that list+suggested categories to the list by early-mid next week
21:17:09 <quaid> <eor>
21:17:15 * nirik is sorta back from the crisis now.
21:17:41 <smooge> ok quaid that sounds good.
21:17:56 <quaid> #action quaid to write up list of new page names + suggested categories by 08 Aug
21:18:20 <smooge> I think in many ways we would do well with a smaller set of pages because frankly I get lost at the stuff there
21:18:21 <smooge> #action quaid to write up list of new page names + suggested categories by 08 Aug
21:18:36 * smooge repeating becasue I cant remember if only the chair can do that
21:19:02 <smooge> when do you think we might have a list of pages?
21:19:44 <quaid> we can generate that to look at right away ...
21:19:47 * quaid looks
21:20:41 <jds2001> smooge: you can make more chairs with #chair <space separated list>
21:20:42 <quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/EPEL
21:21:23 <smooge> To be honest.. I am not sure reports int eh wiki are the best use of a wiki
21:21:31 <quaid> so, for example, all the EPEL/Reports* will move to a Meetings:EPEL_report_DATE and be added to [[Category:EPEL meetings]]
21:21:32 <jds2001> me either
21:21:37 <quaid> yep
21:21:43 <jds2001> and the epel steering comittee is defunct.
21:21:43 <quaid> that takes them out of the regular search space
21:21:47 <quaid> and makes them easy to find
21:21:50 <quaid> by category
21:22:09 <jds2001> so that moves to Archive:
21:22:25 <quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_meetings
21:22:29 <quaid> for example
21:22:46 <quaid> oh, something like that :)
21:23:16 <quaid> jds2001: yep, Archive: + put in a category so it's easy to find, e.g. [[Category:EPEL deprecated pages]]
21:23:55 <nirik> I think a nice main landing page with users and contributors links would be good... then some more info in each of those areas might be logical
21:24:19 <quaid> that's a good point, redoing the landing page is a separate task IMO
21:24:25 <quaid> which can happen in parallel
21:24:27 <smooge> I was wondering if we should be looking at Fedora Community more
21:24:41 <quaid> smooge: how so?
21:25:11 <smooge> well maybe I am misunderstadning what FC is about. I thought it was a place for landing sites to build a community
21:25:29 <jds2001> no, it integrates various tools
21:25:37 <smooge> well darn
21:25:39 <jds2001> bodhi, koji, etc
21:25:46 <quaid> yep, it's a tool for contributors to get more goodness
21:25:55 <jds2001> more of a "contirbutor portal
21:25:56 <jds2001> "
21:26:09 <quaid> so, for example, we'll want to show off via  link to a demo, because FC is one thing that should attract more EPEL contributors
21:26:26 <smooge> no wonder I have never understood what FC pages say from what I understood via blogs...
21:27:03 <smooge> smoogen needs new language compiler it would seem.
21:27:19 <smooge> ok so the wiki landing pages are what we want :0
21:28:06 <quaid> smooge: it's a bit of an ambigious name, I agree
21:29:04 <smooge> oh well thats a different marketing meeting :P
21:29:23 <smooge> onto this one.. I think we should move to the mailling list your list of pages and what we think we should do with them
21:30:18 <quaid> +1 that was the intention
21:30:27 <smooge> ok thanks..
21:30:27 <quaid> and that's what I'll do by mid next week
21:30:29 <quaid> why so long?
21:30:34 <quaid> to make a CSV file :)
21:30:57 * quaid notes there is an fhosted git repo for wiki page renaming he'll use that we can all contrib to.
21:31:03 <smooge> yeah.. need HTML awk
21:31:35 <smooge> quaid, could you explain what you mean by an git repo for wiki page renaming?
21:31:49 <quaid> yes
21:31:52 <jds2001> oh, the psv thing?
21:31:57 <quaid> jds2001: yeah, that
21:32:05 <quaid> we do so many renamings for groups
21:32:12 <quaid> that we have a git repo on fhosted
21:32:20 <quaid> where anyone who is part of *any* group can r/w to the repo
21:32:35 <quaid> so a sub-project can use it to quickly collab on a common pipe-separated-values (PSV) file
21:32:40 <quaid> e.g.
21:32:49 <quaid> OldName|New name|Categorie(s)
21:33:02 <quaid> so I'll put up a file with my suggestions, etc.
21:33:10 <quaid> we'll either discuss, patch, or you can write to it
21:33:17 <quaid> and that gives us something to work from in renaming
21:33:18 <jds2001> well, you have to be a member of a group that has fedorahosted access
21:33:30 <jds2001> or apply to gitwikirename
21:33:34 <quaid> (it was designed to be used by an API chewing wiki tool that never did it ...)
21:33:39 <quaid> jds2001: correct, thank you
21:33:55 <quaid> anyway, we don't have that many pages, it will be a quick one
21:34:14 <smooge> ok.. thanks. add that tot he email so we could see what it should look like, what group we need to join etc. Thanks
21:35:14 <smooge> ok next topic?
21:36:24 <smooge> #topic Increasing Contibutor base.
21:36:32 <smooge> Ideas suggestions?
21:36:47 <quaid> more noise
21:36:48 <smooge> inode0 has thought about getting a FAD together
21:36:57 <jds2001> FAD == good
21:37:05 <jds2001> maybe at the Summit would be a good place
21:37:20 <jds2001> since we have lots of enterprise-y ppl there
21:37:49 <smooge> thats a good idea. I won't be at the Summit.. not sure who will be from RH. But thats actually a good way to get people on this
21:37:49 <jds2001> logistics may be a challenge though
21:38:31 <smooge> logistics is always the challenge for us :)
21:38:47 <smooge> who will be at the Summit?
21:39:46 <quaid> how much noise have we made about how much easier it is to package for EPEL with integration in to the regular package tools?
21:40:06 <jds2001> not a whole bunch i dont think
21:40:08 <quaid> is there anyone who can shoot a screencast or video of using Fedora Community to do EPEL packaging duties?
21:40:25 <quaid> we can get some Marketing help, perhaps.
21:40:26 <jds2001> but i personally didnt find it to be a challenge when we were using plague
21:40:38 <quaid> what would an EPEL area of this page look like?
21:40:39 <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/c/ce/FooBar.png
21:40:52 <quaid> jds2001: you are not the normal case? :)
21:41:07 <quaid> let's pretend it used to be "hard" and now it's "easy"
21:41:12 <quaid> it's something to talk up :)
21:41:26 <quaid> that page "FooBar...
21:41:43 <quaid> is the Marketing's magazine-format idea currently called "Fedora Insight"
21:41:51 <quaid> and I see lots of rawhide and current release goodness there
21:41:54 <smooge> bah I liked FooBar better
21:41:58 <quaid> but no EPEL
21:42:08 <quaid> smooge: yeah, like EPEL - not at all ambiguous!
21:42:35 <quaid> ok, another questions:
21:42:55 <jds2001> do we know who's taking over marketing?
21:42:56 <quaid> who here would like to commit to writing an EPEL-positive blog post once a week
21:43:04 <smooge> not me
21:43:17 <quaid> jds2001: things look fine in mel's hands for now, let's see where thet goes.
21:43:29 <smooge> oh quaid that was meant as in taking over marketing
21:43:31 * jds2001 hasnt written *a* blog post for months
21:43:35 <jds2001> :/
21:43:40 <smooge> quaid, its probably on my job description
21:43:45 <quaid> well
21:43:53 <quaid> if we took a simple message"
21:43:56 <smooge> jds2001, you need to do so.. I was left in limbo about your arm.
21:44:01 <quaid> "EPEL is easier and more meaningful than ever"
21:44:14 <quaid> a nd all repeated it across several people every week
21:44:26 <quaid> simplify and amplify
21:44:33 <quaid> and attract more contributors.
21:44:46 <quaid> our Ambassadors needs to know to talk about it, for example.
21:44:53 <jds2001> smooge: all better now, you wouldnt be able to tell anything was ever wrong except via an x-ray where you'd see a metal plate now :)
21:45:11 <smooge> that sounds like a good idea. What I wanted to talk to you about how we could build a community around this.
21:45:34 <smooge> enterprise people are not very openly passionate people.
21:45:36 * jds2001 commits to writing a blog post this weekend.
21:45:39 <quaid> I'll take the action of defining (via the list) a simple message we can all amplify
21:45:51 <quaid> smooge: exactly what we want to take in to account
21:46:05 <smooge> you have a short job life if you are too passionate.
21:46:08 <quaid> stability, security, ease of management == there are passions in there for that :)
21:46:18 <quaid> simmering perhaps
21:46:31 <smooge> and we could support RHEL-3 !!!
21:46:39 <smooge> sorry theres my passion point
21:46:53 <quaid> for example btw ...
21:47:03 <quaid> I like what stahnma has written about EPEL, RHEL, and CentOS in the past
21:47:03 <jds2001> smooge: really? :)
21:47:15 * jds2001 sends smooge to get his head examined.
21:47:32 <quaid> as an EPEL advocate inside/outside, that stuff resonates IMO
21:48:09 <quaid> smooge: will ya #action me there :)
21:48:32 <jds2001> #action jds2001 to write blog post this weekend
21:48:32 <smooge> #action quaid will define to the list a simple message we can amplify
21:49:22 <smooge> jds2001, i keep running into places that EL3 and thinking of going to EL4
21:49:27 <quaid> "Fedora - enterprise passion you don't have to fake."
21:50:38 <smooge> now I have a parody scene from "Harry met Sally" in my head.
21:51:55 <smooge> anyway..
21:52:04 <smooge> I think thats a good idea.
21:52:53 <smooge> any more ideas on this?
21:53:18 <smooge> #topic Next Stable Push.
21:53:27 <smooge> dgilmore, how does the stable push look?
21:55:51 <smooge> bueller? bueller? anyone?
21:56:07 * quaid is out racing his friend's dad's car
21:57:05 <smooge> well you break you pay for it.
21:57:19 <smooge> take some blankety blank responsibility for yourself.. versus your friend :)
21:58:00 <nirik> I think the el5 one is done, the el4 one is pending? but not sure.
21:59:13 <smooge> ok thanks
21:59:24 <smooge> I think we have run out of steam here
21:59:35 <smooge> closing in 30 seconds
21:59:41 * nirik got pulled back into his emerg. ;( Thanks for running things smooge
21:59:46 <dgilmore> smooge: i started but got sidetracked
21:59:59 <smooge> thanks dgilmore ... I think we all ahve been
22:00:16 <smooge> thanks for getting the builders and such up.
22:01:21 <smooge> #endmeeting