15:00:29 <poelcat> #startmeeting Zikula
15:00:42 <poelcat> hi, who is here for the zikula meeting?
15:00:48 * stickster is here
15:01:01 * Sparks_too is here
15:01:15 <poelcat> greetings stickster Sparks_too
15:01:27 <stickster> ke4qqq: ianweller: mchua: ping
15:01:30 <poelcat> anyone seen ke4qqq or itbegins?
15:01:45 <pcalarco> pcalarco is here
15:01:50 <stickster> Hi pcalarco
15:02:13 <pcalarco> stickster: Hi
15:02:33 <stickster> poelcat: I don't know whether we should expect itbegins.
15:02:43 <stickster> Let's give it 2-3 more minutes and then start regardless.
15:02:55 <stickster> I'm trying to track down J5.
15:03:01 <stickster> Oh wait, there he is!
15:03:08 <J5> :)
15:03:11 <stickster> Hi J5!
15:04:01 * ke4qqq is sorta kinda in and out
15:04:34 <poelcat> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=504066&hide_resolved=1
15:04:43 <poelcat> let's start with packaging status
15:04:51 <poelcat> #topic packaging status
15:05:20 * stickster resolved two naming problems with his packages
15:05:49 <stickster> There are two that are pending, but they aren't blockers because the packages already exist. They'll be obsoleted and replaced automatically once fixed.
15:05:53 <poelcat> stickster: excellent
15:05:56 <poelcat> we also had:
15:05:57 <poelcat> ** Sparks to review license problems in scribite! to determine if he can
15:05:57 <poelcat> just remove the "broken" pieces.
15:05:57 <poelcat> ** ke4qqq: review stickster's renamed packages
15:05:57 <poelcat> ** ke4qqq will contact upstream authors of cc-licensed js by eow and see
15:06:00 <poelcat> if relicensing can happen.
15:06:40 <poelcat> status from ke4qqq or Sparks_too ?
15:06:51 <ke4qqq> relicensing can't happened as j5 pointed out
15:07:00 <ke4qqq> for that particular package
15:07:09 <stickster> Right, we're going to have to rip and replace the affected pieces.
15:07:19 <J5> ke4qqq: not that it can't but that it would be extremely unlikely
15:07:27 <poelcat> ke4qqq: package name for the notes?
15:08:15 <stickster> There are at least three packages affected by licensing issues that I know of
15:08:16 <stickster> Content
15:08:19 <stickster> mediaattach
15:08:20 <stickster> menutree
15:08:36 <stickster> Sparks_too: Scribite has been fixed at this point, correct?
15:08:42 <Sparks_too> stickster: Yes
15:08:48 * stickster points to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula for current module status
15:08:51 <Sparks_too> stickster: But I still need to package some editors.
15:09:11 <poelcat> we also have the elephant in the room which is the date we were targeting for the tracker bug to be closed... but we can include that in the schedule discussion
15:09:14 <J5> Most of the JS licensing issues are various lightbox libraries
15:09:35 <stickster> J5: RIght. Just to provide some background...
15:09:40 <ke4qqq> there are other licensing issues with mediashare iirc
15:10:15 <stickster> I'm here in Westford this week and since J5 answered my blog's CTA for help with the Javascript bits, I talked to him a bit about what we needed -- yesterday, was it?
15:10:24 <stickster> (The week's going by in a blur.)
15:10:36 <J5> ya
15:11:06 <stickster> I told J5 that what we needed was someone who actually knew JS well to choose drop-in replacements (or something close) and help us ensure that Zikula worked with them.
15:11:40 <J5> I mentioned I needed some sort of test instance running so I could check functionality
15:11:44 <poelcat> do we need to go into any specific detail for any of the bugs tracking these issues or set target dates for their resolution?
15:12:01 <stickster> poelcat: I'd like to
15:12:18 <poelcat> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=511998
15:12:19 <buggbot> Bug 511998: medium, medium, ---, david, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zikula-module-menutree - Menutree allows to create multilevel, hierarchical (tree-like) menu.
15:12:23 <stickster> J5: Do you feel comfortable going through each of these three bugs right now for a couple minutes and establishing some sort of plan of action?
15:13:08 <J5> It would be nice to go over each issue, list the license and see if we think it would be easy to get the author to change the license or if we have to rip it out
15:13:17 <J5> stickster: I'm available
15:13:32 <poelcat> J5: i listed the first one above
15:14:07 <stickster> http://weblog.axent.pl/examples/js.drag-drop-tree/cookie.js looks like the most important issue to resolve there
15:14:09 <J5> note I think each licensing issue should get it's own bugzilla.  I had a hard time picking out issues along woith the package review
15:14:42 <stickster> J5: Fair enough, it looks like for bug 511998 there are two issues remaining. One's been resolved because the license (MIT) was found.
15:14:44 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511998 medium, medium, ---, david, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zikula-module-menutree - Menutree allows to create multilevel, hierarchical (tree-like) menu.
15:14:59 <stickster> poelcat: Can you #action me to file those bugs out?
15:15:12 * stickster jumps in since everyone else seems to be pretty quiet today
15:15:39 <poelcat> #action stickster to make sure each licensing issue gets it's own bugzilla
15:16:13 <poelcat> next bug?
15:16:13 <stickster> poelcat: And I'll do that by 8 August
15:16:16 <J5> cookie.js looks really easy to fix.  There has to be tons of cookie libraries out there.  I bet this one is actually just a copy and paste from some tutorial
15:16:29 <stickster> J5: Excellent, that's good to hear
15:16:50 <poelcat> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506038
15:16:51 <buggbot> Bug 506038: medium, low, ---, stickster, ASSIGNED, Need to package mediashare
15:16:52 <stickster> J5: The icons are trivial, and we should be able to do that.
15:17:16 <J5> icons just move to Tango which are public domain and we use for our default theme
15:17:22 * Sparks_too noted that there was a message on the f-docs-l that said the icons were in the public domain?
15:17:24 <stickster> J5: Perfect.
15:17:57 <Sparks_too> Although I didn't see proof of that anywhere
15:17:57 <stickster> Sparks_too: Are those http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/silk/?
15:17:58 <ke4qqq> there is some question about that - the icons don't seem to match up one for one with the pd stuff iirc, but perhaps I am thinking of something lse.
15:18:08 <poelcat> #info J5> icons just move to Tango which are public domain and we use for our default theme
15:18:08 <Sparks_too> stickster: Let me verify
15:18:14 <stickster> k
15:18:22 <stickster> poelcat: Sorry, moving on to your bug
15:18:35 <stickster> That one is one of the Lightbox affected modules
15:18:47 <J5> btw, those look very much like Tango icons (just not as good)
15:18:56 <poelcat> #action Sparks to check on message on the f-docs-l that said the icons were in the public domain
15:19:11 <stickster> J5 noted that a challenge was to find a fairly lightweight script that wouldn't drag in a bunch of other stuff -- but I think he found one that would be able to use prototype -- is that right J5?
15:19:31 <stickster> J5: And would you like me to break out this licensing problem too, as a separate bug?
15:19:49 * stickster thinks that would probably make sense...
15:19:53 <Sparks_too> stickster: I might have imagined that...  But J5 has said it now.  :)
15:19:54 <J5> yes, but it isn't lightweight.
15:20:14 <Sparks_too> poelcat: I can't find that message, now.
15:20:43 <stickster> J5: So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the deal with Javascript is that it can be cached by the client, right? So if we have a 65K script that's kind of ugly the first time, but not so much later, right?
15:20:51 * stickster apologizes for being dense about how the client experiences JS
15:22:06 <stickster> Well, I can sort the answer out later.
15:22:16 <J5> stickster: if we configure the server correctly yes
15:22:30 <stickster> OK, something abadger1999 may be able to help with.
15:22:46 <J5> stickster: it isn't actually a huge script but upstream might balk as 10k vs 65k  is a 6x + increase
15:22:52 <stickster> Sure.
15:23:07 <stickster> J5: What are our options for smaller scripts?
15:23:19 <J5> but consolidating on one would actually be better
15:23:22 <abadger1999> You'll definitely want to clear that kind of stuff with upstream.
15:23:42 <abadger1999> they probably don't want to pull in prototype for one extension, jquery for another, etc.
15:23:52 <stickster> abadger1999: I think the idea is to consolidate on one.
15:24:03 <J5> our options arn't that good.  We end up having to use the big script for the flash functionality in some places
15:24:07 <abadger1999> <nod> -- and that's an upstream decision.
15:24:10 <stickster> abadger1999: prototype is already included for greybox in that module, if I remember correctly.
15:24:44 <stickster> abadger1999: Hopefully they will be responsive given that we want to help with the labor.
15:25:01 <J5> they package kind of weirdly though.  Everything that needs prototype seems to include its own version
15:25:29 <stickster> J5: I think it's to achieve a one-size-fits-all for people who aren't installing on a software-managed platform.
15:25:38 <stickster> In many cases the code will look for system libs first
15:25:59 <stickster> But I may be talking about the PHP now and that doesn't apply to JS stuff.
15:26:10 * stickster apologizes for getting his langs mixed up.
15:26:16 <stickster> OK, should we go on to the next bug?
15:26:22 <J5> ya js resource management isn't very good
15:26:23 <J5> yes
15:26:26 <J5> next
15:26:36 <poelcat> stickster: what is summarized action for this one?
15:26:53 * stickster to break out licensing issue
15:27:01 <poelcat> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492091
15:27:02 <stickster> J5 to come up with fix
15:27:03 <buggbot> Bug 492091: medium, low, ---, a.badger, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zikula-module-Content - Page editing module for Zikula
15:27:07 <J5> sure
15:27:19 <stickster> ke4qqq to bring plan upstream for consideration
15:28:10 <poelcat> #action for https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506038 break out licensing issue + J5 to come up with fix
15:28:11 <buggbot> Bug 506038: medium, low, ---, stickster, ASSIGNED, Need to package mediashare
15:28:31 <stickster> Regarding bug 492091
15:28:32 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=492091 medium, low, ---, a.badger, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zikula-module-Content - Page editing module for Zikula
15:28:35 <poelcat> #action https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492091 ke4qqq to bring plan upstream for consideration
15:28:36 <buggbot> Bug 492091: medium, low, ---, a.badger, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zikula-module-Content - Page editing module for Zikula
15:28:57 <stickster> That's another Lightbox problem
15:29:16 <J5> yes, this is the one that needs flash support
15:29:52 <stickster> I see that ke4qqq emailed the author about offering a dual license -- any response thee?
15:29:56 <stickster> *there
15:30:11 <stickster> That was on 2009-07-23.
15:30:21 <stickster> Oh sorry J5, I missed your later comment.
15:30:25 <stickster> That's a big "never mind."
15:30:30 <J5> again, we would have to get the permission from the lighbox2 and lightbox++ authors
15:30:37 <stickster> Right.
15:30:40 <J5> plush anyone who has touched the code
15:31:01 <stickster> So "lightwindow" might work here as well, correct?
15:31:24 <J5> I'm guessing anyone who uses CC for code doesn't really understand licensing issues
15:31:47 <stickster> Right.
15:31:50 <J5> ya, this is the one module where lightwindow looks like the only worthy solution
15:31:55 <stickster> *nod
15:32:25 <stickster> We might want to expand this into a general suggestion to the Zikula community that they use lightwindow wherever possible to ensure licensign compatibility.
15:32:43 <jwb> what is Zikula?
15:32:48 <jwb> oops!
15:32:50 <stickster> It seems like lightbox pops up quite a bit in their various content-organizing modules.
15:32:51 <jwb> ignore that question here.  sorry
15:33:26 <stickster> ke4qqq: Sparks_too: Is Lukas around these meetings?
15:33:35 <Sparks_too> dunno
15:33:51 <stickster> I notice that he's in the bug as recently as middle of July. Is he still owning this module?
15:34:58 <stickster> Well, we can figure that out, and if required someone can take over the work.
15:35:12 <stickster> poelcat: I think the resolution for this bug is the same as the previous one, though.
15:35:42 <stickster> I'll break out a bug, J5 will give us muscle, and ke4qqq will propose the change upstream.
15:36:11 <poelcat> #action  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492091 break out licensing issue + J5 to come up with fix
15:36:13 <buggbot> Bug 492091: medium, low, ---, a.badger, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zikula-module-Content - Page editing module for Zikula
15:36:24 <poelcat> #topic test instance
15:36:40 <poelcat> oops... anything else around packaging and lisencing?
15:37:37 <stickster> poelcat: I think we missed one
15:37:42 <stickster> bug 505938
15:37:43 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Need to package MediaAttach.
15:38:12 <poelcat> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=505938
15:38:13 <buggbot> Bug 505938: medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Need to package MediaAttach.
15:39:18 <stickster> J5: So from your comments in the bug, this one should be not too hard to fix all three of these issues.
15:39:19 <J5> Highslide is another lightbox
15:39:30 <stickster> J5: Do you want separate bugs filed here too?
15:39:39 <J5> yes
15:39:43 <stickster> J5: will do
15:39:54 <stickster> poelcat: So, same actions here then
15:40:17 <stickster> I think that does it for licensing and packaging.
15:41:31 <J5> javascript-image-cropper-ui is not an issue.  It is under the GPL compatible BSD license
15:41:41 <stickster> J5: Thanks
15:41:52 <stickster> poelcat: Yield the balance of my time to the gentleman from Portland
15:42:24 * poelcat back... box crashed
15:42:53 <stickster> whoops
15:43:03 <poelcat> #action https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 break out licensing issue + J5 to come up with a fix
15:43:05 <buggbot> Bug 505938: medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Need to package MediaAttach.
15:43:31 <J5> there seems to also be a php element to that bug?
15:44:08 <J5> oh, no must have been one of teh other ones
15:44:49 <stickster> J5: If you find something else, let me know and we'll vet it on the list
15:45:17 <stickster> poelcat: take it away sir
15:45:20 <poelcat> our next topic was test instance configuration
15:45:45 <stickster> ke4qqq: Sparks_too: Who has the administrator credentials for the publictest instance?
15:45:45 <poelcat> Need to set a date to template the conf files for
15:45:47 <poelcat> puppet and create package lists, etc.
15:46:18 <stickster> abadger1999: That question ^^ might be for you too
15:47:14 <abadger1999> stickster: I don't know but anyone in sysadmin-test should have sudo o nthe box.
15:47:31 <abadger1999> Worst comes to worse, someone can reset the admin passwords in the database.
15:47:39 <stickster> abadger1999: Can I ask you to do that for us?
15:47:57 <stickster> I'm going to take silence from ke4qqq and Sparks_too to mean that they don't have the creds and/or don't know who does.
15:47:58 <ke4qqq> stickster: afaik just itbegins
15:48:09 <abadger1999> What's the db?  mysql?
15:48:14 <Sparks_too> stickster: I'm not sure.  I do, I think.
15:48:16 <ke4qqq> yes mysql
15:48:18 <stickster> abadger1999: Almost certainly
15:48:21 <stickster> ke4qqq: Thanks
15:48:34 <ke4qqq> per mmcgrath that's what infra wanted since mw was also using mysql
15:48:42 <stickster> Sparks_too: If you have them, could you please send them around to some other people in the group? GPG email would be fine.
15:49:05 <stickster> We definitely want to avoid silo'ing the admin privileges so that we can get things working at least to a state where J5 can test his changes.
15:49:24 <Sparks_too> stickster: I mean that I am in the sysadmin-test for the purpose of working with Zikula
15:49:29 <ke4qqq> we need to get the fas plugin working
15:49:39 <ke4qqq> we created a fas group for admin auth
15:49:49 <ke4qqq> we need to make sure the test fas instance has such a group as well
15:50:21 <stickster> Do we need the FAS stuff working before we can test the Javascript changes?
15:50:39 <ke4qqq> probably not
15:50:41 <ricky> Feel free to create one - admin/admin on http://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/accounts/
15:51:20 <abadger1999> oh--so the admin privs are for the box or for zikula?
15:51:24 <J5> no we don't need Fas working but we do need login working
15:51:38 <poelcat> who is responsible for getting the login working?
15:52:17 <stickster> Let's back up for a moment and just make sure we're asking the right questions.
15:52:21 <abadger1999> :-)
15:52:58 <stickster> 1. Test box admin privs are required to put test packages or files directly on the box.
15:53:15 <stickster> 2. Zikula admin privs are required to refresh/activate those changes in Zikula.
15:53:34 <stickster> 3. FAS auth goo is required so we can have people able to sign on via their existing FAS accounts.
15:53:39 <stickster> Did I get that right?
15:54:01 <ke4qqq> yes but 3 appears optional for the moment
15:54:08 <stickster> ke4qqq: Correct, thanks for that
15:54:21 <abadger1999> answer: 1.  Everyone in sysadmin-test should have sudo on the box -- if you can ssh to publictest15, you should have sudo.
15:54:53 <stickster> abadger1999: Thanks, that's helpful info
15:55:04 * poelcat still isn't seeing how we are going to get these things done if no one is volunteering to do them
15:55:33 <abadger1999> 2 -- You want me to figure out how to reset the admin password/admin account and password in the db so we can use it.
15:55:37 * stickster is grateful J5 has agreed to take on some work here, despite his busy schedule with Fedora Community
15:55:39 <Sparks_too> ke4qqq: Can you get with itbegins and see if we can get the keys for #2, please?
15:55:55 <ke4qqq> I'll fire off an email shortly
15:56:17 <abadger1999> Okay -- so I won't work on 2 (for now).
15:56:18 <stickster> Sparks_too: ke4qqq: It might be simpler to just reset them, notify itbegins by GPG email with the new information.
15:56:19 <poelcat> #action ke4qqq to send email off about actions needed around test instance
15:56:29 * stickster yields
15:56:32 <poelcat> #topic schedule
15:56:35 <ke4qqq> stickster: I agree
15:56:48 <poelcat> this topic has been stalled and frankly i'm not sure what to do
15:57:01 * ke4qqq needs to step away for a bit
15:57:02 <stickster> ke4qqq: poelcat: abadger1999 Let's agree to this -- give itbegins 24 hrs, and then take reset actions after that.
15:57:10 <ke4qqq> stickster: worksforme
15:57:10 <stickster> So the action stands.
15:57:13 <stickster> Cool
15:57:14 <abadger1999> Sounds good.
15:57:16 <stickster> poelcat: Sorry, go ahead sir
15:57:24 <poelcat> only two people responded to the whatisgood and the times suggested are now over
15:58:03 <poelcat> to be really honest i'm getting discouraged about leading the PM around this project because I'm not
15:58:04 <stickster> poelcat: I'm partly at fault there too, I didn't answer when I had the chance and ran out of time.
15:58:07 <poelcat> getting the input I need
15:58:41 <poelcat> and I don't have the tech background or big picture on how it all needs to work so i'm largely dependent on you all :)
15:59:01 * stickster reminds everyone that the CMS isn't going to get done by itself. If we need more help, let's go to specific people from other teams and ask them to take on specific tasks.
15:59:03 <poelcat> so w/o any info or inputs i spin my wheels
15:59:34 <poelcat> and w/o a solid schedule I'm don't see how we are going to go live for F12
15:59:42 <poelcat> we have already missed the dates set
16:00:05 * stickster wants to be optimistic but is running out of happy pills
16:00:27 <stickster> Is someone in this room now?
16:00:39 * stickster wonders if we can use another 5 minutes here.
16:01:22 <stickster> I want to acknowledge poelcat's situation here, and note that if the Zikula steering group wants someone to serve as PM, we need to make it worth that person's while.
16:01:23 <poelcat> who is willing to sit down and help me do the schedule?
16:01:43 * stickster raises hand, but you knew that
16:01:50 <abadger1999> poelcat: Sorry :-( I was hoping mmcgrath would be able to do the requirements meeting b/c I'm more the development side of thingsrather thansys-admin/deployment.
16:02:08 <abadger1999> I can step in and help do the schedule.
16:02:21 <poelcat> abadger1999: thanks
16:02:30 * spot looks around
16:02:31 <poelcat> how about someone from the packaging side?
16:02:35 <Sparks_too> poelcat: I can help but I've been getting busier and I don't see it slacking off until September
16:03:02 * ricky is listening around as well if there are any easy infrastructure requirement questions :-)
16:03:17 <poelcat> okay, i'll take a second shot at whenisgood
16:03:21 <stickster> Sparks_too: We can do it on an evening call if needed, abadger1999 and poelcat are 3 hours behind us
16:03:26 <poelcat> and hopefully we can meet for next Wed
16:03:54 <Sparks_too> stickster: WORKSFORME
16:03:55 <poelcat> but if we still don't have a schedule then, i think maybe we need to punt on F12 for go live
16:04:08 <pcalarco> !
16:04:25 <stickster> We're in Spot's room at this point, we need to adjourn
16:04:29 <poelcat> #action poelcat to send whenisgood to coordinate schedule review to happen before next meeting
16:04:37 <stickster> poelcat: Agree with your last statement though
16:04:37 <poelcat> okay
16:04:39 <poelcat> thanks everyone
16:04:41 <poelcat> #endmeeting