16:30:01 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG
16:30:07 <nirik> #topic Init process
16:30:45 <nirik> who all is here for the irc support sig meeting?
16:30:52 * thomasj 
16:31:06 * zcat 
16:31:26 <thomasj> hola
16:31:35 <fenris02> ohayo
16:31:40 <thomasj> =)
16:32:10 * EvilBob 
16:32:25 <fenris02> guten morgen freunde
16:32:27 * ricky lurks
16:32:45 * thomasj surprised by fenris02
16:32:46 * fenris02 hopes he spelled that close enough
16:32:52 <thomasj> perfect
16:33:51 <fenris02> bonjour les amis   (again, pardon the lack of spelling)
16:34:04 <nirik> ok, I guess we can get started...
16:34:09 <nirik> I don't have much today. ;)
16:34:15 <nirik> #topic Weekly stats
16:34:27 <nirik> http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as always.
16:35:26 <zcat> LinuxCode #1. maybe another op.
16:35:32 <thomasj> ew
16:35:41 <nirik> I note there are some folks in the top list that are users who have never been there before... who have been struggling to get help.
16:36:15 <nirik> I'm not sure what we can do, but it's worth noting.
16:36:20 <fenris02> well, one of those in particular is up there because 5+ folks have already tried to help him
16:37:01 <nirik> yeah, I know.
16:37:15 <EvilBob> No
16:37:37 <EvilBob> he is there because he refuses to use logic in trying to resolve a simple problem
16:38:11 * nirik nods.
16:38:24 <EvilBob> can anyone tell me that you can get a video card working with out a monitor attached to it?
16:38:43 <EvilBob> Because if You can... You deserve a medal
16:39:06 <EvilBob> if you try to help someone who thinks they can... you deserve metal
16:39:10 <fenris02> EvilBob, turn of edid, and then you can.  wont make it work though
16:39:28 <nirik> anyhow, we are getting off topic... ;)
16:39:31 <fenris02> that boy has additional issues
16:39:39 <nirik> anything on the stats anyone wants to discuss? or shall we move on?
16:40:26 <zcat> oh - badword banning. thanks fenris02
16:40:37 <nirik> yeah, that was on my list. :)
16:40:38 <fenris02> badword bans work great
16:40:42 <nirik> #topic badwords banning
16:40:42 <fenris02> the new fpaste is far better than the old one.
16:41:07 <nirik> we have setup fedbot to kick/ban people for some serious things... mostly the driveby link spamming we have seen a bunch of...
16:41:11 * Southern_Gentlem 
16:41:18 <nirik> those games that want people to get people to load their page, etc.
16:41:35 <nirik> I don't know that it will cut down on them, but at least it means they get nuked right away.
16:41:52 <zcat> yeah, more like spamwords than badwords
16:41:55 <fenris02> in the past, a few pasted their links multiple times
16:42:01 <Southern_Gentlem> which means in time it will cut down on them
16:42:19 <zcat> i would hope freenode staff have a better way of finding and klining spammers across multiple channels
16:42:26 <nirik> if folks have more things to add there we can... but it should be reseved only for a few things IMHO, we shouldn't put normal profanity in it.
16:42:32 <fenris02> at the very least, by-standers should know that it's unacceptable .. and hopefully not bother click on them
16:43:17 <nirik> anyhow, moving on unless there is anything further on this...
16:43:39 <nirik> #topic /boot sizes
16:43:47 <nirik> this is something linuxcode wanted to bring up.
16:44:06 <fenris02> 200M is no longer sufficient
16:44:18 <nirik> yeah, so it's going to grow at some point.
16:44:23 <LinuxCode> I am indeed
16:44:30 <nirik> we need to be aware of older installs that have smaller /boot...
16:44:31 <thomasj> 500 isn't bad nowadays with preupgrade
16:44:36 <zcat> only if preupgrading
16:44:49 <fenris02> thomasj, is 300 enough ?  or does it really need to be larger?
16:44:50 <nirik> well, it depends on if the dracut stuff makes f12 too...
16:44:52 <zcat> /boot is 50M on my netbook
16:45:03 <thomasj> fenris02, 300 is enough
16:45:05 <fenris02> nirik, it really looks like it's going to ... unless you know something?
16:45:12 <nirik> dracut currently makes a generic initrd with everything in it... so it's about 21MB or so per kernel
16:45:14 <LinuxCode> ahh neat, fyi all, I am looking for a concensus here on that issue
16:45:29 <LinuxCode> the docs/anaconda guys might want to make recommendations on that
16:45:31 <nirik> fenris02: it's been disabled for alpha since it didn't land in time...
16:45:52 <LinuxCode> zcat, the problem is preupgrade
16:45:55 <fenris02> LinuxCode, the install guide says 250 or so.  let me see if i can find it quick
16:46:13 <LinuxCode> fenris02, I was asked to file a bug, but wanted a support consensus
16:46:24 <LinuxCode> docs and anaconda will receive changes
16:46:27 <thomasj> it does say 250, that would be enough with a regular yum.conf
16:46:33 <nirik> so I have no strong opinion on it... 500 should be fine, and most disks these days thats a small drop in the bucket.
16:46:41 <thomasj> I for example keep anykernel, so i'm glad to have 500
16:46:45 <LinuxCode> I myseklf was thnking 200
16:46:50 <LinuxCode> 300
16:46:52 <LinuxCode> sorry
16:47:01 <LinuxCode> 200 is borderline fail
16:47:25 <EvilBob> I have a 100MB /boot and it works just fine
16:47:37 <LinuxCode> EvilBob, not until you run preupgrade mate
16:47:45 <Southern_Gentlem> LinuxCode,  i think the docs should suggest 500 foer running preupgrade in the future
16:47:51 <EvilBob> quit leading people down the preupgrade path of doom
16:47:57 <thomasj> heh
16:48:00 <LinuxCode> and preupgrade appears to be the only sane way to upgrade now, if you dont want tp use a disk
16:48:07 <fenris02> EvilBob, preupgrade > yum "upgrade"
16:48:19 <LinuxCode> Southern_Gentlem, 500 is fine by me
16:48:20 <Southern_Gentlem> LinuxCode,  if
16:48:22 <EvilBob> does not make it sane
16:48:23 <thomasj> Well, both can work
16:48:38 <LinuxCode> but we might receive some flak by some people
16:48:52 <LinuxCode> 400MB compromise ?
16:49:10 <Southern_Gentlem> LinuxCode,  like i said suggest 500 for preupgrade use in the future a so # like 200 otherwise
16:49:12 * nirik doesn't think this is quite the right forum for deciding this.... why not let anaconda folks determine it?
16:49:13 <fenris02> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/en-US/html/s2-diskpartrecommend-x86.html
16:49:15 <LinuxCode> just in case preupgrade expands itself further
16:49:16 <Southern_Gentlem> givce people the choice
16:49:18 <fenris02> ^^^ docs need updating
16:49:25 <thomasj> nirik, +1
16:49:41 <LinuxCode> nirik, they wanted input
16:49:42 <Southern_Gentlem> +1
16:49:47 <LinuxCode> docs will feed t down
16:49:49 <LinuxCode> but sure
16:50:04 <LinuxCode> I tell them to decide then, just as we are frontline
16:50:04 <nirik> LinuxCode: ah, ok. 500 is my vote... but feel free to pass along any/all comments here. ;)
16:50:10 <fenris02> LinuxCode, 300-500 is a nice range.  lower than 300 is really going to fail quickly with dracut
16:50:13 <LinuxCode> well 500 it is then
16:50:27 <LinuxCode> seems to be the majority
16:50:37 <zcat> fedora and rhel will probably end up having different /boot defaults then, since nobody should recommend preupgrade for the latter :)
16:51:03 <thomasj> 500, but i wonder that anaconda people want input. Anyways 500
16:51:08 <fenris02> zcat, isnt el4 -> el5 a "supported" upgrade?
16:51:11 <LinuxCode> zcat, Im sure the anaconda folks will chip in, I pass the reasons on for our decision
16:51:17 <nirik> fenris02: nope.
16:51:24 <fenris02> nirik, ah, good
16:51:29 <LinuxCode> it was a recommendation from the frontline support people
16:52:19 <EvilBob> I recommend not recommending preupgrade, it is the main source of this "issue" am I correct?
16:52:45 <LinuxCode> EvilBob, the problem is, there is no other network upgrade option that works
16:52:49 <thomasj> It's the main reason, yes.
16:52:56 <fenris02> EvilBob, without preupgrade support, /boot can be in teh 100M range easily
16:53:06 <LinuxCode> yum upgrade ate my cat
16:53:07 <fenris02> EvilBob, lower than that will likely cause issue
16:53:19 <thomasj> Especially for people with only WLAN and a not native supported chip.
16:53:59 <nirik> cool, so anything further on this or shall we move on?
16:54:06 <LinuxCode> we can move on
16:54:08 <LinuxCode> ;-}
16:54:16 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:54:31 <nirik> anything else anyone has? ways to improve? general status on how we are doing?
16:54:44 <MadBus> i think things are generally going well
16:54:48 <fenris02> sort of spilled it early, but the new dpaste is very nice
16:55:03 <nirik> oh yeah, kudos to the unity folks on that...
16:55:07 <thomasj> Is the captcha now in.. /me checks
16:55:10 <fenris02> it's manageable, autoexpires and all
16:55:11 <thomasj> *the new
16:55:18 <fenris02> thomasj, should be
16:55:38 <thomasj> no
16:55:52 <fenris02> oh, bummer.  he was testing it the other night
16:55:56 <thomasj> except it pops up after you sent the stuff
16:56:09 <fenris02> what url was it?
16:56:15 <thomasj> fpast.org ?
16:56:18 <thomasj> grr
16:56:22 <thomasj> fpaste.org
16:56:40 <fenris02> no, sorry, for your test paste
16:56:55 <thomasj> Anyways, yeah, kudos!
16:57:13 <zcat> also, franciscod has packaged a fpaste cli util, and it passed review, so it'll be in the repos eventually
16:57:17 <fenris02> it still gets spammed, but there are a few folks combing through to remove it
16:57:28 <fenris02> zcat, didnt he abandon it already too?
16:57:31 <LinuxCode> zcat, that is very good news
16:57:36 <thomasj> I thought franciscod dropped it?
16:57:49 <nirik> fput was dropped... fpaste is a python thing I think.
16:57:56 <thomasj> ah
16:58:05 <fenris02> fput = bash version?
16:58:06 <zcat> the fupt shell script because it wasn't 'properly hosted' with versioning, etc.
16:58:10 <zcat> http://ankursinha.fedorapeople.org/fpaste/
16:58:17 <LinuxCode> I thought khatsyus wrote it in bash
16:58:20 <LinuxCode> ohh ok
16:58:34 <thomasj> zcat, cool, thanks
16:58:46 * LinuxCode recalls a bash script using curl
16:59:00 <thomasj> So, who is upstream for it now? franciscod?
16:59:04 <zcat> LinuxCode, yeah, the old rafb.net/paste script
16:59:12 <LinuxCode> zcat, hehe
16:59:13 <zcat> LinuxCode, spammers killed it
16:59:18 <LinuxCode> i see ok
16:59:27 <LinuxCode> no surprise there then
16:59:39 <nirik> anything else for open floor anyone has?
16:59:40 <Southern_Gentlem> and they were working on fpaste
16:59:50 <Southern_Gentlem> motion to adjoined
16:59:51 <nirik> I can note again that classroom is always looking for teachers. ;)
17:00:05 <zcat> thomasj, damaestro and myself:  https://fedorahosted.org/fpaste/
17:00:30 <thomasj> zcat, very nice :D
17:01:04 * LinuxCode hopes we get the clandaring web app up soon
17:01:11 * LinuxCode always forgets meetings
17:01:31 <EvilBob> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/How_to_display_different_clock_types_in_GNOME
17:01:43 <fenris02> zcat, do you want to put the .spec from the above url there as well?
17:01:45 <nirik> calendars would be nice.
17:01:53 <LinuxCode> nirik, its in the works
17:01:55 <fenris02> ical ftw
17:02:03 <nirik> yeah, I know, it has been for a long time.
17:02:03 <LinuxCode> fenris02, yah we can export those then
17:02:17 <thomasj> nirik, so i could do a "How to use and pimp my Desktop perfectly" class? Or is that out of scope. Speaking of KDE of course..
17:02:19 <EvilBob> those like me who want a UTC clock to help keep track of meetings set at UTC times ianweller posted the above info
17:02:31 <nirik> thomasj: that would be great.
17:02:32 <deRaadt> thomasj, haha
17:02:37 <nirik> I did a Xfce tour one.
17:02:39 <thomasj> :D cool!
17:02:52 <fenris02> thomasj, that needs a screencast
17:02:52 <deRaadt> thomasj, keep the class name exactly that
17:03:02 <deRaadt> fenris02, can be done with cobbler right?
17:03:03 <thomasj> deRaadt, will do =D
17:03:33 <fenris02> theo: hm?  cobbler doesnt do screencasting afaik
17:03:46 <thomasj> fenris02, yeah i'm thinking on something like that, maybe some screenshots. Will take some time and ponder.
17:03:46 <nirik> ok, unless someone has something else, will close the meeting in 60sec.
17:04:25 <fenris02> thomasj, flickr / picasa would do.  irc by itself is a poor medium for pimping desktops imho
17:04:32 <thomasj> yeah
17:04:54 <nirik> #endmeeting