20:03:25 #startmeeting 20:03:27 * ianweller 20:03:29 * mchua does the bot thing 20:03:31 * stickster 20:04:17 aw, no dufflebag or rbergeron today? 20:04:23 * mchua pulls up https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda 20:04:33 * rbergeron is here 20:04:56 rbergeron: oh hey! 20:04:59 Awesome. 20:05:00 :) 20:05:09 * quaid lurks under a slouch hat in the back corner 20:05:22 so, status update first: https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/report/3 = we are nicely on track for alpha. 20:06:06 there are 3 tickets that haven't been taken yet - https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/18 is the fun one, if you're looking for a good excuse to meet cool people - (actually, they're all fun) 20:06:14 but we're looking preeeetty good. 20:06:31 k, first order of business: F12 talking points - we'll be freezing the list of talking points at this meeting so we can move forward with News and Docs and start writing them. 20:06:35 that would be https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_talking_points 20:06:59 Take one last look... any last-minute comments, additions, objections, thoughts? 20:07:46 mchua: I made some changes today to reflect feature list alterations 20:07:47 * ianweller think sit looks good 20:07:53 Moblin = out, SystemTap = in 20:08:06 * mchua nods 20:09:04 ...ok, that wraps up talking points then. List frozen. :) 20:09:12 now we need to find people to write them. 20:09:27 * mchua isn't sure whether this is usually done by news or docs or marketing or what combination of the three. 20:09:48 any takers for driving talking points and feature profiles for this release? 20:09:54 where do we put things like "further developments in Fedora Community" or Project-wide stuff that lands in the F12 release cycle, that we want to use the F12 media blitz to help publicize 20:10:10 spevack: I think that could go in "For everyone" 20:10:25 'aight 20:10:30 We might want to kick out one or two of the existing bullets there to accommodate something extra 20:10:35 Rather than just continuing to grow the list 20:10:50 * stickster is flexible and open to suggestions to make the list as high-impact as possible 20:11:49 Hrm. 20:12:05 we need to KISS 20:12:13 spevack: Right. 20:12:20 we could easily start adding "For Fedora Contributors" and other categories, but let's not :) 20:12:28 spevack: that seems inappropriate :) 20:12:40 +1. I'm happy with the list we have now, let's take this to list and try to drum up folks to help write. 20:12:41 skvidal: i even shaved today, cmon! 20:12:51 "For People Who Really Matter (Probably Not You)" 20:12:53 and if someone wants to write something that isn't on the list, awesome; we can still publish it on FI. 20:13:23 * mchua wants to make sure rbergeron has time for FI workflow discussion this afternoon. 20:13:27 quaid: "If you have to ask..." 20:13:49 * mchua ahems 20:13:52 moving on! 20:13:56 next: Fedora Insight requirements: what features do we (and other teams) want on FI, and how do they map to modules? A worksprint to fill this information into a big table will happen immediately after the meeting, in #fedora-mktg. (Mel Chua) 20:14:23 http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/ is up 20:14:37 awesome 20:14:37 and rbergeron has been tinkering with workflow 20:14:43 rbergeron: you've got the floor - what should we do? 20:15:01 so... like you said, i've been tinkering around with it a bit 20:15:05 since late last night basically :) 20:15:30 and the tools are there, i think, to make groups and such so that specific groups can own specific items. 20:15:53 now, not being entirely familiar with the whole process... and mchua, i do have that fabulous whiteboard drawing of yours :) 20:16:02 i may need clarification on some of it. 20:16:07 rbergeron: go for it. 20:16:11 * mchua pulls up whiteboard pic url 20:16:21 http://mchua.fedorapeople.org/fi-whiteboard.jpg 20:16:23 #link http://mchua.fedorapeople.org/fi-whiteboard.jpg 20:16:54 so I think first off, is that there are a bunch of buckets of types of content, and it's not entirely clear to me who is owning... what. 20:16:56 from this picture. 20:17:02 rbergeron: the whiteboard is basically a strawman, by the way. Don't feel constrained by them. 20:17:04 rbergeron: +1 20:17:20 which would be helpful for assigning group permissions and such. 20:17:48 also, need to know who is going to be the end-all to actually publish things, who will decide what really should be in the front-page highlighted news items, etc. 20:17:57 since i'm sure everyone believes that their news is the most important news :) 20:18:03 someone has to make that call, in the end. 20:18:26 as far as the workflow itself, i have a question as to... delegation of things. 20:18:43 will there be some sort of system in place to make sure that people are taking ownership of items? 20:18:43 I think the call for what gets front-page highlighted has to come down to a small number of people and not a free-for-all. 20:18:50 agreed. 20:19:04 or that... news that gets written will be definitely be taken by the next group.... 20:19:18 a notification system of some sort, or just a random pinging on an email list, or... what? 20:19:30 rbergeron, these are great questions - you're finding fuzziness because the situation hasn't been decided yet 20:19:32 because a workflow is nice, but if people aren't taking ownership of the items, then it seems like... one is back at square one. 20:19:46 rbergeron: +1. 20:20:06 but, back to where i originally was...i have a tendency to wander... it seems like ther are distinct groups, docs, ambassardors, marketing, etc. 20:20:15 +1. unfortunately i can't take ownership of a thing right now :( 20:20:17 and it seems like there may be overlap in the types of items published by each group. 20:20:28 and if not, well, spelling it out would be great. 20:20:40 and then figuring out the hierarchy of what goes where seems like the next logical step. 20:20:45 yup. 20:21:09 rbergeron: what ownership/decision-making scheme would you suggest? 20:21:13 i'd like to tinker around with making some groups, and seeing how permissions work, but it would be awesome to have some more guinea pigs on the system that i can assign permissions to and such. 20:21:23 rbergeron: i think to some extent, it's mostly that nobody's stood up and said "well, let's just start by trying it this way." 20:21:38 * mchua will be a guinea pig. 20:21:41 * rbergeron looks at her magic 80ball 20:21:44 err, 8-ball 20:21:52 rbergeron: do you need guinea pigs to be in irc on real time, or just dummy accounts to work with? 20:21:55 i'm not entirely sure :) 20:22:00 dummy accounts would be fine. 20:22:16 rbergeron: Ok. I'll show you how to make those right after the meeting, if that'd work. 20:22:25 rbergeron: you have admin privs, so you can have as many dummy accounts as you want. :) 20:22:30 indeed 20:22:40 i wasn't sure if that was going to hose up the system after the discussion last night 20:23:08 in any case: i'm still tinkering. posting things seems to work. 20:23:09 rbergeron: so long as they're not FAS usernames, it will be ok. So we'll just name them testaccount01, testaccount02, etc. 20:23:23 zikulatest01 20:23:27 the url-auto-generation doesn't seem to be working, but that may just be a switch that needs to be flipped somewhere. 20:23:44 i've created some content categories that are more...akin to FI, rather than "arts and entertainment" and such 20:24:00 * quaid can help poke with Zikula PHP settings, if it helps 20:24:03 quaid: even better 20:24:03 rbergeron: Yay! 20:24:03 * mchua takes a look 20:24:24 whoa, sweet - folks, look at http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/index.php?module=News&func=categorylist 20:24:51 it's not entirely representative of what you had - but it is a lot better to test with things people can relate to, imho 20:25:29 but i think there is more tinkering to be done, certainly, and anything you want to do php-wise would probably be wiser than anything i could do in that area :) 20:25:43 rbergeron: that's awesome - my whiteboard drawings are a strawman, and can be entirely ignored. ;) your categories are better, methinks. 20:26:03 So here's where we stand with the FI deployment timeline: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Schedule 20:26:13 in particular, 2009-08-25: final workflow due; software freeze (all needed modules installed, no additional software features added after this date) 20:26:18 which is a week from now. 20:26:20 which is *fast.* 20:26:32 * rbergeron nods 20:27:22 so i would suggest that maybe over the next day or two 20:27:32 we should try and get some feedback (or i should figure out) 20:27:50 what the distinct groups are that will be publishing (which is fairly easy) 20:28:05 and what the content buckets are, and who owns them (or what groups overlap there) 20:28:12 and if there is overlap, who should be doing what first. 20:28:33 from your whiteboard, it looks like...there is a process desired to be passsing things on to other groups? 20:28:37 i'm not sure exactly. 20:29:04 particularly the ambassadors --> public, journalists, events 20:29:13 * mchua nods 20:29:14 and how that relates to FI itself... 20:29:27 is that more of a workflow thing, and less of a published material thing? 20:29:51 ambassadors making sure journalists are getting things, public is being made aware of the website or is getting feeds / daily newsletters with content / whatever 20:30:24 rbergeron: Yep. Once we hand it to Ambassadors and the NDN (news distribution network), we can sit back and relax and they'll make sure the content gets delivered. 20:30:49 * stickster is listening 20:31:11 so ambassadors...are writing articles as well? or more of a delivery method, if you will 20:31:19 "content" 20:31:22 i should say 20:31:29 rbergeron: when acting as ambassadors, more of a delivery method. 20:31:49 so some ambassadors are content contributors, others are strictly ambassadors. 20:32:00 rbergeron: more like "some people are both ambassadors and content contributors." 20:32:07 right 20:32:26 so, let me toss out an idea here. 20:32:32 feel free 20:32:36 i think what needs to happen is someone needs to wear The Decision Hat on FI workflow between now and next week. 20:32:41 decide all the questions that rbergeron brought up. 20:33:12 what are the categories, who are the groups, who is accountable for what, what the cycle of publications will be (weekly? every 2nd full moon?) 20:33:31 imo... constant random publication is great 20:33:34 keeps people visiting 20:33:39 rather than once every other week 20:33:42 or random cycles. :) that too. 20:33:46 is there a minimum? 20:33:50 this would be just for the f12 cycle - just 'till end-of-nov/start-of-dec, when we'll have a chance to step back and think about this again - to get something started. 20:33:53 (no less than once per day, etc.) 20:34:05 quaid: yup, that would be another question to answer this week. 20:34:17 well, i think there will be content, i'd imagine that could constantly be changing on the page, even if there is no new content 20:34:37 for example, someone could write something to change a "highlighted article" or featured how-to or something to that effect every day. 20:35:12 rbergeron: There are things for Zikula that can do that for you already 20:35:15 if people are blogging, or whatever, on the fedora blog site, that content could be pulled into a box so that things are more dynamic. 20:35:20 itbegins: hey simon! 20:35:21 itbegins: i'd imagine so :) 20:35:35 my proposal was that I'd like to suggest that rbergeron officially wear The FI Workflow Decision Hat this week, because she's already doing it and doing a damn fine job. 20:35:38 rbergeron: and plenty of other options, if you're looking for further content creation opportunities 20:35:55 mchua: Hi, just thought I'd dash in to catch the end 20:36:13 in that case: i will make a ... document form of your workflow chart. 20:36:24 rbergeron: still gathering feedback and all that, but ultimately, what you say is what we'll go with for f12. 20:36:41 and it will probably be Really Bad, but at least if it's Really Bad, people will pipe up and tell me just where it went wrong. 20:36:50 +1 rbergeron FI Workflow Czar-O-th'-Week 20:37:03 rbergeron: that's what I do all the time. seems to work. :) 20:37:13 "release early, release often, run" 20:37:42 i think the other thing to sort of think about on the side of this is how ownership will be taken for these workflow items as they come up 20:37:58 rbergeron: that way, if you decide the workflow needs a feature in the software that we haven't put on this zikula instance yet, you can holler to me and itbegins, and we can see if there's a module that can make it so, or find a workaround. 20:38:25 we can get the workflow in place, but i would think that there will need to be a whipping-boy mechanism behind the scenes, or else people won't be notified that things need to be translated, edited, whatever. 20:38:40 * mchua used to be editor-in-chief of campus newspaper. Can carry large stick and knock on doors if needed. 20:38:45 lol 20:39:07 * spevack did that too, in high school 20:39:09 * rbergeron edited linuxsymposium papers this year and last. She has a large-sized paddle as well 20:39:27 * mchua pulled an allnighter every single thursday that year in college, knocking on doors.... 20:39:39 Maybe I know now on whom to call for refereed tracks for FUDCon 20:39:41 Excellent, people with large sticks abound. 20:40:02 stickster: uh, did I say that? I mean - my identical twin, also named Mel, was the... um... 20:40:07 Sonar_Gal: I'll go about doing workflow dartboards 20:40:26 hmmm 20:40:35 i have no idea how sonar-gal got in there.... but okay 20:40:40 * rbergeron scowls at the keyboard 20:40:50 rbergeron: so do you want to wear the hat? :) 20:41:00 rbergeron: and what do you need to do it? tools, help, people, support, cheese.... 20:41:16 ...trebuchets, although I might have trouble shipping that... 20:41:18 cheese. lots of cheese 20:41:26 i'll take the hat. 20:42:00 i will probably need some assistance from itbegins as i dig into it more. mostly, i'm going to just need feedback from people on how they think the natural order of Things should be 20:42:05 rbergeron: Awesome. 20:42:20 rbergeron: I'll be around, just ping me 20:42:26 Sonar_Gal: deadline on the 25th 20:42:33 what is going on there, jeez 20:42:43 terminal = fail sometimes 20:42:46 rbergeron: I'll be around as well. And you can poke the marketing mailing list repeatedly, and the #fedora-mktg IRC channel has folks on it even when I'm asleep... 20:42:49 When we get a staging instance online I'll also start with performance modifications and the like 20:42:54 itbegins: <3! 20:43:17 Unless you want me to do it on the pt machine - but that's something to check with mmcgrath 20:43:17 i'm assuming the deadline is to have the workflow functioning in the sandbox instance 20:43:36 rbergeron: are you typing "So" and then a tab? or perhaps your IRC client is doing tab-completion but with the space bar? 20:43:47 #action rbergeron is Workflow Czar: 2009-08-25 functioning workflow in zikula sandbox instance 20:43:48 so 20:43:50 hmmm 20:43:56 so 20:43:59 nope. not that 20:44:19 you'd think i could work irc, i spent most of college on it :) 20:44:32 blame the client, that's what I do! 20:44:35 rbergeron: yup, workflow in sandbox + whatever resources you need to walk us through "here is how you use FI" at this meeting next week, how does that sound? 20:44:47 sounds good 20:45:01 rbergeron: thanks *so much* for taking this on. 20:45:03 i did hear a rumor that there is a fedora theme out there :) 20:45:07 * mchua rejoices! we're going to have a real workflow! 20:45:23 rbergeron: itbegins started a theme, and it sounds like mizmo_ is taking a look at what the design team can do with it 20:45:32 it will be awesome and shiny-lookin' 20:45:49 basically the major help i will need is that if there are any serious sysadmin type tasks that need to be done - like things being installed and such - 20:45:59 i'm probably not the operator you want there 20:46:16 rbergeron: Yup, that's what the folks in #fedora-admin are for, and itbegins, and quaid can help out too. 20:46:21 so i'll ping ... someone, mchua i'd assume, if things like that need to be done 20:46:26 rbergeron: that works too. :) 20:46:49 i left my sysadmin hat behind many years ago and ... yeah :) 20:46:50 rbergeron: though most of the time that means "mchua runs to #fedora-admin and asks people how to do X" ;) 20:46:50 rbergeron: can you join #fedora-mktg? we can side-discuss the sysadminery status 20:46:58 yup yup 20:47:36 rbergeron: think you're set for next week? I'll be in #fedora-mktg after the meeting also, and we can set up your zikulatest* accounts 20:47:55 not entirely yet, but i should be. 20:48:06 i'm going to have to tinker more, and i'll probably have more questions for itbegins. 20:48:09 i shouldn't even say probably. 20:48:11 i will. 20:48:30 rbergeron: :) you rock. thanks. 20:48:44 I'd like to make sure we hit the other two things on our list for today (they're both quick) 20:48:47 you can ping me for sysadmin style stuff, if I don't know what to do I'll go and hassle my friends in fedora-admin 20:49:05 and then if we have time we can talk more about FI (though the convo will probably have migrated to #fedora-mktg by then.) 20:49:11 * mchua looks at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda 20:49:13 no no, go ahead :) 20:49:24 next: "Fedora 12 Alpha Readiness meeting is coming up. Let's. Rock. It. HARD." 20:49:40 that is tomorrow. 20:49:55 basically, are we on track for http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-marketing-tasks.html ? 20:50:10 and the answer is "yes, look at how we're kicking ass on https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/report/3" 20:50:36 ...and I wanted to make sure folks had a chance to chime in here and tell me if there's anything else I should say or ask. :) 20:50:42 good job, everyone. 20:50:49 good leadership, mel :) 20:51:34 * spevack has nothing to add -- Alpha slipped a week, but any other schedule slips don't really change Marketing's world much 20:51:40 we just move our schedule the same amount 20:51:45 yep. 20:51:54 ok, we're ready for the alpha meeting then. 20:52:00 I'll holler notes to the list afterwards and all that. 20:52:30 last bit of business: Be sure that the Alpha release announcement is ready, on Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement. Probably need to talk with Sparks/quaid. 20:52:48 basically, moixs is going to push https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement to the NDN when he gets back tonight 20:52:54 and wanted a last sanity check and signoff on it. 20:53:58 can anyone spot giant gaping things we ought to fix? 20:54:15 mchua: Might want to check version numbers for GNOME and KDE 20:54:32 we can't really have GNOME 2.28 in the Alpha if it hasn't been released yet 20:54:39 It's probably 2.27.x 20:54:39 * mchua nods 20:54:42 #action alpha announcement: check version numbers for gnome and kde 20:54:54 * mchua will hammer on this for a few minutes in #fedora-mktg right after this meeting 20:55:05 Also, check dracut status 20:55:43 #action alpha announcement: check dracut status 20:55:56 stickster: basically, we need to fact-check everything? 20:56:34 * spevack dares us to say that we're shipping GNOME 3.0 :P 20:57:31 Ok. Well, I'll do fact-checking after account setup after this meeting. 20:57:42 We're almost out of time. 20:57:48 Anyone else have anything to bring up? 20:58:28 not me 20:58:36 * mchua is a bit sub-par on meeting-running game today, needs to find food soon... 20:58:42 okeydoke. 20:58:45 ianweller: jetpacks! 20:58:48 meeting ending in 5 20:58:50 4... 20:58:51 mchua: Sorry -- phone call from SupaWife 20:58:52 3... 20:58:58 * mchua puts on helmet 20:59:00 mchua: You've got it, factchecking. 20:59:04 stickster: w00t 20:59:08 * stickster backs away and lets countdown commence 20:59:10 2... 20:59:10 * mchua straps on jetpack 20:59:12 1... 20:59:16 #endmeeting