16:00:39 #startmeeting Fedora QA meeting 16:00:39 Meeting started Mon Oct 5 16:00:39 2009 UTC. The chair is jlaska. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:39 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00:51 #topic Gathering able bodied persons 16:00:53 morning 16:01:03 * kparal1 says hi 16:01:11 that topic is discriminatory against disabled qa people. 16:01:18 i say this only half in jest, because, well, it actually is =) 16:01:54 but only for english people, i myself didn't get that :) 16:02:26 adamw: Well certainly no ill will intended ... of course will adjust in the future 16:02:41 interesting where a running joke can get you, hehe 16:02:45 ;) 16:03:07 I thought I was safe not limiting the meeting to gender 16:03:18 ah, it's never that easy 16:03:24 indeed 16:03:28 okay, who else do we have 16:03:29 aaaaaanyway 16:03:47 I sense the presence of wwoods ... lurking in the shadows 16:04:05 * wwoods rolls a Stealth check 16:04:24 Oxf13 is around too I believe 16:04:30 * Oxf13 16:05:05 We'll be missing dpravec today 16:05:17 so let's get started 16:05:24 #topic Previous Meeting Follow-up 16:05:30 First ... an apology 16:05:54 there will only be 1 QA meeting right now ... contrary to the dueling agendas posted to the list 16:06:12 * adamw leads his followers to #confederate-fedora-meeting 16:06:26 adamw: take the action items with you please! 16:06:31 =) 16:06:50 I didn't have any recorded action items from last weeks meeting 16:06:53 * jlaska looking at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-28/fedora-meeting.2009-09-28-16.00.html 16:07:05 adamw: was there anything not recorded that you wanted to discuss from last week? 16:07:33 nothing specific from last week that i can think of, but we could follow up on the discussion of development issues from a couple of weeks ago, now more people are here 16:07:36 esp. oxf13 16:07:52 Oxf13: you remember that? the talk about anaconda dependencies and rhel changes parachuted into fedora... 16:08:23 vaguely 16:08:39 you mentioned there were meetings at which some of those issues could be raised - gone anywhere with that? 16:09:05 yeah, we re-affirmed to RHT management that it is too late to make feature changes in F12 16:09:12 great 16:09:36 was there any pushback? 16:10:02 not yet 16:10:32 I don't have the full history of this discussion topic ... was this anaconda specific ... or general changes? 16:10:59 jlaska: it was a wide-ranging discussion :) 16:11:12 that's my guess based on recent f-d-list threads 16:11:30 jlaska: it started with someone (dpravec iirc) raising anaconda team's concerns that things anaconda depended on were being changed in major ways too close to the beta 16:11:46 eg nfs 16:11:50 gotcha .. yeah a fair concern 16:11:51 it broadened out a bit from there into general issues causing undesirable changes in late pre-pre-release phases 16:11:51 lvm 16:12:03 yeah that stuff 16:12:04 right and lvm 16:12:13 though the discussion was right before the lvm storm broke iirc 16:12:28 dcantrell has some interesting testing that's maturing ... but could potentially be used to highlight these types of issues in the future 16:13:15 might be worth having a presentation/discussion as his tests mature at FUDCon perhaps 16:13:37 roger 16:13:40 certainly won't solve all the worlds problems, but might help give the anaconda team a heads up when things they rely on are changed out from under them 16:14:18 #idea How can the QA team support dcantrell's anaconda A[BP]I checking routines 16:14:26 any other points on this topic? 16:15:07 if so ... we might choose to make this a repeating topic 16:15:22 i'd rather not, meetings are long enough as it isw 16:15:32 i just wanted to follow up on the discussion, and we couldn't do it last week as jesse wasn't here 16:15:38 roger 16:16:06 alrighty ... next up we've got a quick check-in on the AutoQA front 16:16:12 #topic AutoQA update 16:16:23 wwoods: you've got the floor 16:16:32 let's see 16:17:02 last week I wired up the UI, so members of the 'qa' group can now add/remove test results for the manual tests 16:17:27 (this is for the israwhidebroken mini-frontend) 16:17:34 #link http://wwoods.fedorapeople.org/screenshots/irb.png 16:18:03 we decided to defer a) sweet ajax UI junk and b) automating the yum/network tests until later 16:18:31 so here's the current roadmap: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/milestone/israwhidebroken.com 16:18:52 basically it comes down to: 1) get links back from israwhidebroken to autotest 16:19:01 and then 2) get it all running in production in public 16:19:36 #action jlaska to catch up with mmcgrath on delivery of autoqa hardware to PHX 16:19:54 yeah there's rumors that our autoqa hardware may be arriving soon? 16:20:04 I got word on Friday that "it's in the mail" 16:20:19 nice 16:20:58 definitely! I took an action to sync up with infrastructure to figure out what we need to do once the hardware lands 16:21:01 so yeah, getting the backreferences to autotest turns out to be nontrivial but I've been talking with upstream and we'll work something out 16:21:23 after that it's all ready to go into "production" 16:21:38 * jlaska queues the suspense music 16:21:42 for values of "production" roughly equal to "public early beta" 16:22:01 still: woo! 16:22:14 right on ... I second that 'woo' 16:22:26 think that's all from mem 16:22:27 err, me 16:22:34 wwoods: thanks for the update! 16:22:52 kparal1: any updates on the packagediff piece you're investigating? 16:23:20 well, i have started to write a test for comparing old and new rpm package 16:23:32 it will be hopefully part of autqa in the future 16:23:52 the intention is to alert on important changes between packages 16:24:28 currently i'm announcing changed dependencies, changed config files, changed file modes and such stuff 16:24:50 nice! 16:25:00 developing goes slowly because i can't devote it much time but i hope it will be usable soon 16:25:13 adding/removing binaries should definitely be announced as well 16:25:30 yes, that's in the plan: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/53 16:25:41 * wwoods reviews 16:25:49 you can see my code, i have put it online: https://fedorahosted.org/autoqa/ticket/54 16:25:51 pretty sure we talked about all that stuff before so I'm sure it's all here 16:26:07 it's just a first shot and i'm learning python with it, so be mercifull :) 16:26:28 i think that's all from me 16:26:52 kparal1: hah! you've taken on quite a challenge for first time python (e.g. rpm libs) 16:27:32 also there are some bugs waiting in rpmdiff to be fixed, but the rpmlint project seems a little dead now (trac not working properly, mailing list halted) 16:27:41 but hopefully skvidal will help me with that 16:27:47 * skvidal looks up 16:28:00 kparal1: ah yes - your email from last week 16:28:23 kparal1: is this working from existing rpmdiff code? 16:28:33 Oxf13: not the rhel rpmdiff 16:28:38 right 16:28:39 Oxf13: the rpmlint, rpmdiff 16:28:41 that one is still closed 16:28:44 Oxf13: yes, i'm using the public rpmdiff in my script 16:28:45 *stab* 16:28:49 Oxf13: and will, afaict, never be opened 16:29:09 in my best ed mcmahon "you sir, are correct sir" 16:29:13 kparal1: I think I should talk to Ville - see if he has any thoughts 16:29:36 Ville is irc nick? 16:29:41 jlaska: you realize how old that makes you sound that 1. you know who ed mcmahon is 2. you know who he would say that to 3. you know the snl bit about that 16:29:50 kparal1: he's almost never on irc - ville skytta 16:29:54 skvidal: ;) 16:29:58 skvidal: ok, thx 16:30:03 kparal1: when he is on irc he's scop 16:31:01 alrighty ... aside from just a quick run through of upcoming QA events ... I wanted to spend some time surveying the group for our Beta readiness 16:31:07 #topic F-12-Beta QA readiness 16:31:24 Oxf13 will be hosting a go/no_go discussion on the beta today during the rel-eng meeting (@ 18:00 UTC) 16:31:54 but I thought we could spend a few minutes here making sure that all the _hot_ issues are on the radar ... and see if anything is stuck in process 16:32:07 looking pretty no-go at this point 16:32:27 yeah, not much movement on bugs over the weekend :/ 16:32:30 pulling up the F12Beta blocker bug report ... 16:32:32 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=F12Beta&hide_resolved=1 16:32:33 still no first boot, nm-gnome crashes, ppc64 netboot missing, and aliveinst failure? 16:32:38 mdadm got fixed 16:32:49 adamw: party my fault. I didn't look at the tag queue last night, got tied up with family stuff 16:33:07 and the util-linux-ng issue has a build+tag request in I believe 16:33:36 yeah, some stuff needs testing to clear the tag queue 16:33:49 hum 16:34:01 important point: that's an entirely different networkmanager crash report from the one we worked on in the meeting 16:34:04 it's been tagged as a blocker independently 16:34:09 may be a dupe of the other report 16:34:10 i will check 16:34:25 ok 16:35:53 while adamw's looking for that NM issue ... are there any other bugs that aren't represented on the current blocker list that folks are concerned about? 16:37:11 that 'invisible icons' bug from the list looks icky 16:37:17 though i'm not clear on the exact symptoms 16:38:46 jlaska: anything come up in the anaconda test day? 16:38:51 https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00058.html 16:38:58 * Sir_Limpsalot sneaks inn.. 16:39:03 as far as blocker worthy bugs 16:40:08 Oxf13: a few bugs ... but don't have enough info yet as to whether they are common or exceptions 16:40:25 hi there 16:40:34 we have the ongoing pain with yaboot not properly booting after some scenarios (bug#523754) 16:40:35 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=523754 is not accessible. 16:41:12 hmm, that's not the right bz ... try bug#523754 16:41:29 oh perms on the bz ... odd 16:41:30 that's the same number you just said 16:41:35 sure is :) 16:42:02 there's a few like that against Fedora ... specific to ppc ... and I Think they're all related to the same core yaboot issue 16:42:11 this is going off my gut feel from testing, so could be wrong 16:42:22 it's not a new problem though, so I wouldn't raise this is a beta blocker 16:43:41 it looks like the anaconda-devel team has already started working the test day bugs ... I'll see if I can get clumens to help identify and alarming storage issues in the list 16:44:06 #action jlaska - sync-up with clumens to identify any blocking issues from https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00073.html 16:44:22 there were a few RAID related issues, but as brunowolff_ said ... a fix is already tagged for that 16:45:22 adamw: anything else on the invisible icon thread? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00058.html 16:45:58 mclasen called out bug#510249 on this issue 16:46:00 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=510249 medium, low, ---, mclasen, ASSIGNED, Missing panel applets on gnome login; "Glib-GObject-CRITICAL" messages.... 16:46:10 which is currently marked as a F12Blocker 16:46:20 jlaska: no, i just saw it this morning, haven't looked into it much yet 16:46:53 The live install experience has become pretty annoying ... not sure if other see that as well 16:47:31 in that nautilus windows keep popping up while you're formatting the disks (bug#527091) 16:47:33 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=527091 medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, Installer causes a number of popups when creating filesystems 16:47:43 jlaska: should 510249 be a beta blocker? 16:47:53 * poelcat read the bug last night... wasn't sure 16:48:12 poelcat: that's the one from the thread adamw noted 16:48:35 right... it's blocking final, but not beta 16:49:18 claimed fixed for Alpha, then reopened it seems 16:49:41 someone want to take an action on this to follow-up w/ mclasen on this bug? 16:51:08 * poelcat will post to f-desktop-list 16:51:36 #action poelcat to check in on beta blocker status of 510249 16:51:39 poelcat: thx! 16:51:52 there are several other action items we addressed in the Friday bug meeting ... https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00046.html 16:52:55 in response to that meeting ... there is a new NM available for testing from dcbw (see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-October/msg00154.html) 16:53:01 testing against that would be appreciated! 16:53:59 any other beta concerns not currently on the list? 16:54:33 I need to get a new fedora-release out there 16:54:38 forgot to do that 16:54:42 wwoods: I noticed that irb.com still has the Oct 02 images ... I gather rawhide hasn't built since then? 16:55:02 today has been built, but it is taking a long time to sync 16:55:04 due to signed rpms 16:55:11 Oxf13: gotcha, thx 16:56:17 jlaska: that'd be my first guess 16:56:47 wwoods: did you or skvidal have any thoughts on that F-11 preupgrade bug that F-12-Beta testers would hit? 16:57:00 jlaska: which one 16:57:04 haven't had time to trace it 16:57:15 jlaska: there are 2 bugs I've seen 16:57:21 I think it's bug#526208 16:57:22 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=526208 low, low, ---, skvidal, ASSIGNED, preupgrade failed from old release(f10, f11) 16:57:27 1. is the doesn't-update-display thing that wwoods mentioned 16:57:29 that's the UI-hang bug 16:57:36 wwoods: yeah, that's the one 16:57:43 2. is the createrepo/yum bug if they are not using latest yum 16:58:15 wwoods: I find 1 odd - I thought it might be a urlgrabber thing but if you can make it happen on pure f11 then not so much 16:58:32 yeah, plain uptodate F11 16:59:22 adamw: should bug#526535 be moved to MODIFIED now? 16:59:23 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=526535 medium, low, ---, dcbw, NEW, [abrt] crash detected in NetworkManager-gnome-1:0.7.996-3.git20090928.fc12 16:59:40 jlaska: we're working on the tagging status 17:00:01 for my own clarification ... it can't go into MODIFIED unless it's also tagged? 17:00:03 jlaska: i'm not sure when we should use MODIFIED when we're in a freeze situation... 17:00:03 wwoods: I'll make the bizarro bug my main problem today 17:00:10 jlaska: i'm not sure either :) 17:00:45 skvidal: wwoods: thanks gents 17:01:26 Oxf13: do you have any take on the tagging and MODIFIED bz state? 17:02:14 I would think we can mark it as MODIFIED if a package is built, but it can't be tested (and therefore CLOSED RAWHIDE) until it's tagged and readily available. Is that wrong? 17:02:15 my take is that MODIFIED means something changed, either upstream or locally, but it hasn't been confirmed or built/tagged for rawhide 17:02:26 just don't /close/ anything unless it gets tagged 17:02:32 agreed 17:03:02 adamw: any objections? 17:03:43 (insert caveats about preupgrade fixes not requiring f12 tags per se here) 17:03:53 wwoods: true, good point 17:04:36 jlaska: um. that's probably okay. you can argue it either way, really. just pick an answer and write it down in the lifecycle page :) 17:05:01 adamw: cool, I think we have one then 17:05:20 there's a gap here that leaves ambiguity, but that's not something I'm interested in touching on at the moment 17:05:39 Alrighty ... let's move on to a quick recap of upcoming events 17:05:46 #topic Upcoming QA events 17:06:12 All of the discussion for the last 25 minutes has been around the beta go / no_go meeting coming up in 1 hour 17:06:15 Beta Blocker Bug (go/no go) - Mon 2009-10-05 17:06:29 based on the outcome of that meeting, we may or may not have a ... 17:06:32 * Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting - Wed 2009-10-07 17:06:50 however, either way ... we've got another test day queued up for this thursday 17:06:53 * RAID Test Day - Thu 2009-10-08 17:07:19 If anyone has dmraid hardware, we could use your feedback this thursday 17:07:29 (or any hardware RAID for that matter) 17:08:01 So that's all I have listed for upcoming events ... let's move on to 'open floor' 17:08:10 #topic Open floor - 17:08:24 Any items folks would like to discuss during the meeting? 17:10:23 quiet ... I'm assuming folks went off for some lunch before the rel-eng meeting then 17:10:37 something like that 17:11:22 i am just aiming not to prolong the meeting :) 17:11:34 alrighty ... let's close it out then 17:11:36 * kparal1 still here, but no issues 17:11:39 please follow-up to the list for any other concerns 17:12:05 thanks for baring with me through the slooooow bug review part of todays meeting :) 17:12:11 #endmeetings 17:12:13 #endmeeting