00:01:03 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:03 Meeting started Thu Oct 8 00:01:03 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:09 #topic Roll Call 00:01:11 * Sparks 00:01:23 * jjmcd is here 00:01:44 * bcotton is here (who is this guy anyway) 00:01:54 And according to my watch, you were within a couple seconds, probably IRC lag 00:02:04 * danielsmw is here 00:02:27 * Sparks wants to shoot the guy who schedules a meeting in the middle of an amateur radio contest! 00:02:48 There's always a contest 00:02:50 i wonder who that was 00:02:56 :) 00:03:10 70cm is dead anyway 00:04:40 Okay, let's get started... 00:04:46 #topic Old Business 00:05:10 danielsmw: What the status on the editor for Zikula? 00:05:37 Sparks: i've been working on it for the past hour 00:05:42 :) 00:05:45 Sparks: rpmlint comes out clean now 00:05:53 danielsmw: Very cool! 00:05:55 so I think i may go ahead and put it on bugzilla 00:06:25 Yup. 00:06:30 Excellent. 00:06:48 Let us know if you need any support. 00:06:55 Thanks for packaging it! 00:07:01 Sparks: Will do. I probably will later this evening 00:07:04 No problem1 00:07:54 rudi: I see you changed the license info on the Fedora brand package for Publican 00:08:14 Yep -- all done 00:08:41 rudi: Excellent 00:08:42 rudi, does that also include the additional localization? 00:08:51 jjmcd -- kinda 00:08:57 ianweller: Did you figure out how to change the license on the wiki? 00:09:02 It includes the feedback file 00:09:08 Sparks: it's in localsettings.php 00:09:10 which is in puppet 00:09:17 ianweller: So you are good to go? 00:09:19 But "Document Conventions" is part of the publican package 00:09:26 not the Fedora brand package. 00:09:35 Sparks: sure i'll work on a patch sometime tonight and test it somewhere 00:09:37 That seems odd 00:10:08 (I also missed 4 languages in the package I released the other day, there's a corrected package in Bodhi now that should appear soon to fix that) 00:10:36 All the langs except Chinese are now building 00:10:48 Well, since "Document Conventions" documents how Publican renders various XML tags, this doesn't tend to change from brand to brand. 00:12:03 If someone came up with a very heavily customized brand that *did* change how those tags were rendered, they could also create a new "Document Conventions" text to ship with that package 00:12:42 Which would override the one in Common_Content/common 00:13:11 Anyway, I'll see if I can package the extra "Document Conventions" translations into a new release of Publican 0.44 for us 00:13:33 good deal 00:14:52 Okay... 00:15:01 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:15:15 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:15:21 Can anyone provide an update? 00:16:36 Well, I know danielsmw will be submitting the editor for Zikula for review tonight. 00:16:44 Yup. 00:17:13 Anyone else have an update? 00:17:36 Okay, moving on 00:17:42 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:17:50 * #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:17:54 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:18:19 kudos to ianweller for his announcement and notoriety 00:18:20 I think ianweller sent out the announcement on Monday. 00:18:29 ianweller: Have you received any feedback? 00:18:34 no 00:18:36 Sparks, showed up in LWN 00:18:41 Cool 00:18:55 i am looking into the wiki crap at the moment if anybody's wondering 00:19:23 Just reach into your bucket of magic pixie dust 00:19:31 I think quaid was working on contacting previous contributors 00:20:27 ianweller: do you have a link for that LWN article? 00:20:45 * ianweller looksies 00:21:02 I think the big thing is going to be #7... Make changes to the guides. Rebuild all current versions and push them to docs.fp.o and repos. (All) 00:21:04 http://lwn.net/Articles/355546/ 00:21:15 they just copy/pasted my emai 00:21:17 email* 00:21:22 That means that all guides will need to be updated ASAP. 00:21:47 ianweller++ 00:22:24 This will be coming up in the near future. 00:23:02 I feel a world of CVS hurt a-comin :) 00:23:02 #action Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license 00:23:09 rudi: Yeah 00:23:17 * danielsmw is afk for a bit 00:23:35 Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:23:54 Are we just republishing F11 docs? 00:23:59 Or further back too? 00:24:31 rudi: I think just F11. 00:24:36 +1 !!!!!! 00:24:44 F10 will be EOL soon anyway. 00:24:54 rudi: Unless you want to go back to the FC days. :) 00:25:14 Uh.... 00:25:20 NO 00:25:23 :) 00:25:28 IMO if people are going to want to use some of our information they would probably want to get it from the latest source and not an old guide. 00:25:52 * Sparks thinks ianweller got off easy during this ordeal 00:26:07 Okay, moving on. 00:26:13 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:26:21 #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:26:28 Does anyone have an update on this? 00:26:58 Going... 00:27:01 going... 00:27:07 gone. 00:27:09 Still blocked by the NotEnoughHoursInTheDay bug 00:27:17 rudi: Understood. 00:27:26 Expect some traction after I finish on the Publican 1.0 User Guide :) 00:27:36 rudi: You might want to shoot ke4qqq an email on this as I think he wanted to work on it but probably has the same bug. 00:27:38 (RSN) 00:27:52 #topic Guide needs? 00:27:58 * ianweller hsa to run 00:28:01 Okay, anyone have any guides that are in need? 00:28:10 Sure -- my blocker is getting the content together that legal has agreed to release to the wider community 00:28:10 ianweller: Cya 00:28:21 I sent a wuery to qrplinux-L looking for help 00:28:24 no joy 00:28:38 I think I will ping QRP-L, a much bigger list 00:28:39 the RPM guide might need a new owner, i am ashamed to admit that I havent done squat with it all summer :-/ 00:28:40 jjmcd: On the Amateur Radio guide? 00:28:45 affirm 00:28:59 bcotton: same bug as rudi? 00:29:05 jjmcd: Okay. I need to take a stab at some of it. 00:29:31 jjmcd: a combo of that and NotEnoughExperience 00:29:32 rudi: Which guide is this that you are having legal issues on? 00:29:34 Sparks, it would be nice to have something fairly complete for F12 00:29:52 jjmcd: Might be too late in the game 00:30:12 could be 00:30:15 No guide -- I got left behind -- I was still talking about the Open Source Style Guide 00:30:25 rudi: Ahhh 00:30:26 (and Red Hat's internal Style guidelines) 00:30:35 rudi: understood 00:30:53 bcotton: What do you need? More help or more time or both? 00:31:39 bcotton, you might be able to get some help from Florian. He asked us to do it, probably could provide content guidance 00:31:57 Sparks: a bit of both. i'm taking a new job later this month, which should give me a bit more time once i get settled. i'll also get more experience with git and rpm building, and so forth 00:32:23 bcotton: Put the word out on the f-docs-l and see if there are any takers. 00:32:59 sparks: to help or to take? i'd be okay with either. i know the guide is rather dated, but i dont want to let it languish any more than it needs to 00:33:23 bcotton: Whichever you feel most comfortable. You'd probably find helpers first, though. 00:33:35 (i'll also try to hang out in the IRC channel more, i've been fairly absent for a while) 00:33:44 sparks: can do! 00:33:44 Okay 00:33:51 jjmcd and rudi: How goes the RNs? 00:33:58 Well, 00:34:14 I need one small edit before I make the beta rpm 00:34:29 Next move I guess is to update docs.fp.o 00:34:46 jjmcd -- I've been doing that as langs hit 100% 00:34:57 We have been building every night anf the L10N gang has been working hard 00:35:14 excellent 00:35:23 A couple of thoughts: 00:35:57 1) this time, I think we should only move langs to d.fp.o if there's been L10N work in the current cycle 00:36:25 2) langs should remain "Drafts" until they hit 100% 00:37:04 I think we're getting to the point where we should present readers with something a bit more polished 00:37:19 Some of you may have seen the French L10N team take a firm stand on this recently ;) 00:37:35 Last time there were a lot of langs at 80-90%, shouldn't we pull the trigger on those? Or should we encourage the translators to move that last few percent. 00:37:37 I didn't 00:37:43 rudi: Can you elaborate? 00:37:56 (They nuked the entire F12 RN fr.po file because they didn't want to see mishmashed docs published) 00:38:10 (and don't have plans to translate the F12 RN) 00:38:39 jjmcd -- I think we need to provide the encouragement to squeeze out that last 10%-20% 00:39:15 rudi: So let me get this straight... There were French translations and they removed them all? 00:39:26 Sparks -- yes 00:39:35 French translations carried over from previous cycles 00:39:37 rudi: That's not going to sit well with me at all. 00:39:44 For headings and stuff 00:39:52 rudi: Why did they do that? 00:40:00 What was the reasoning? 00:40:21 Sparks -- because they saw us (docs) publishing half-complete work in the past and didn't want it to happen again 00:40:29 Sounds so terribly French of them 00:40:30 rudi: what was the % translated when they nuked it? 00:40:33 so they aren't going to do them at all? 00:40:49 Sparks -- they have no plans to for F12 00:40:57 I'm not good with that 00:41:43 ryanlerch -- only about 10%–20% 00:41:47 Reused strings. 00:42:08 Okay... anything else? 00:42:19 It does mean, however, that if they decide that they want to do RN in French for (say) F13, they'll need to rebase the PO to F10 00:42:28 (or start from scratch, as they choose) 00:42:49 That's just nuts 00:43:12 True, but they probably didn't realise that they could just ask us not to publish the doc ;) 00:43:32 I'll keep my thoughts to myself at the moment. 00:43:34 And, I sympathise with their desire not to publish half-finished work to the world 00:43:40 Okay, moving on. 00:43:47 Anything else in the guide department? 00:44:17 #topic New guides? 00:44:28 Any new guides to be discussed? 00:44:39 You don't have enough? 00:44:56 I don't have enough time to work on the guides I want to work on! 00:44:58 :) 00:45:06 #topic Other business 00:45:09 Just noting that the Virt Guide is up 00:45:14 Anyone have anything else they want to talk about? 00:45:18 rudi: +1 00:45:21 On the F12 drafts page 00:45:23 Sparks 00:45:24 Check it out! :) 00:45:36 You are aware that the beta meeting moved a week 00:45:46 jjmcd: Yes... Was going to mention that to you... :) 00:46:12 :-) Poelstra sent me a note, I wasn't sure it also went to you 00:46:41 jjmcd: I saw it on the logistics list. Are you on that? 00:46:56 Not sure, don't think so 00:47:05 I already have too many lists 00:47:24 Okay, that list was created as a joint list kinda thing... mutual aid? 00:48:17 Okay, anything else? 00:48:21 Yep, the note from JP was posted to logistics so I guess I am on it 00:48:38 I actually have something. 00:49:11 The first meeting after the F12 release I'll accept nominations for "leader" of the Docs Project. 00:49:27 We'll give that a week and then we'll have a poll setup to vote. 00:49:47 So be thinking of someone you'd like to see running this thing. 00:50:02 I think it is a good idea to do this every release or two... 00:50:12 I don't know if you can get out of it that easy 00:50:15 just to keep the ideas new and the momentum moving. 00:50:23 jjmcd: One can try. 00:50:36 jjmcd: All I have to do is nominate you. :) 00:50:43 * ryanlerch nominates zodbot, he is always in meetings... 00:50:55 lolz@ryanlerch 00:50:56 ryanlerch: That's true. And he does take really good notes. 00:50:59 * bcotton seconds ryanlerch's nomination 00:51:02 I'll decline, but maybe I should nominate EvilBob, he is always at these meetngs, too 00:51:31 but here's a question: why can't zodbot be a she? 00:51:43 that is what I get for having a good bouncer 00:51:45 bcotton: zodbot sounds too masculine 00:51:59 what about Sonar_Gal? 00:52:26 Always coming and going 00:52:41 :) 00:52:45 Okay, anything else? 00:53:12 ls 00:53:16 * danielsmw apologizes 00:53:40 rm -Ir danielsmw 00:53:43 better than firefox http://myfavepornsite & 00:54:26 5 00:54:31 4 00:54:35 3 00:54:39 2 00:54:44 1 00:54:49 Thanks everyone for coming! 00:54:56 #endmeeting