18:04:23 <Oxf13> #startmeeting Fedora Release Engineering Meeting
18:04:23 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct 26 18:04:23 2009 UTC.  The chair is Oxf13. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:04:23 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:04:37 <Oxf13> #meetingname fedora-releng
18:04:37 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora-releng'
18:04:43 <Oxf13> #topic roll call
18:05:11 <Oxf13> ping: notting jwb spot rdieter lmacken wwoods dgilmore warren poelcat
18:05:23 <jwb> hm?
18:05:24 <jwb> oh
18:05:28 <rdieter> here
18:05:29 <jwb> here i guess
18:05:34 * notting is here
18:05:35 * spot is around for 15 minutes, then has to bail
18:06:15 <Oxf13> good enough to get going.
18:06:19 <Oxf13> #topic Fedora 12
18:06:38 <Oxf13> There really is just one topic, and that's the looming Fedora 12 release.
18:06:46 <Oxf13> We had a blocker bug review day or two last week, and trimmed the blocker bug up a bit.  Still rather large
18:06:57 <Oxf13> We are due to enter RC stage on the 4th of November
18:08:02 * wwoods hereish
18:08:19 <Oxf13> so there is going to be a number of tag requests coming in.  I'll be making sure they get trough and we have as much testing time as possible.
18:09:30 <Oxf13> We also need to figure out when to push updates.
18:09:33 <Oxf13> #topic Fedora 12 Updates
18:09:51 <Oxf13> the concern with pushing updates too early is that it splits testers, and it also risks the buildroot
18:10:08 <Oxf13> as we'd be putting things into the buildroot that aren't necessarily going out in the release, and could lead to broken deps/packages.
18:10:42 <Oxf13> so the later we wait to push updates, the less risk there is
18:11:38 <jwb> yeah
18:11:57 <jwb> also, no idea if releng2 is ready for mashing or not.  asked notting and skvidal about it, but haven't heard back yet
18:12:03 <rdieter> is bodhi open for submitting f12 updates atm ? (i thought no)
18:12:13 <jwb> rdieter, no.  it was, and now it isn't
18:12:20 <Oxf13> rdieter: no, we're pushing people toward tagging instead
18:12:20 <rdieter> ok
18:12:23 * dgilmore is here
18:12:26 <Oxf13> since we're just rubber stamping non-critpath packages
18:12:48 <rdieter> well, deciding when to push could hinge on when submissions are re-enabled (or it could be vice-versa too)
18:13:18 <Oxf13> sure, we have to decide when we want to push, and then open for submissions a bit before that
18:13:44 * skvidal is here
18:13:44 <dgilmore> Oxf13: i kinda think we should open up for updates a week before ga
18:13:44 <Oxf13> one way around buildroot issues is that we could create a new target/buildroot that is just f12-final content
18:13:44 <jwb> pushing was going to happen after RC had been finalized
18:13:52 <Oxf13> and people building stuff for RC fixes would build specifically using that target
18:14:06 <skvidal> and I'm not sure we have the right bits on releng2 - I'll have to sift what's in the rpm and deltarpm on there
18:14:07 <Oxf13> but that seems overkill to me
18:14:17 <dgilmore> Oxf13: that would be fine as long as well yell about it
18:14:22 <jwb> skvidal, that would be appreciated
18:14:24 <dgilmore> it would be easy for people to get wrong
18:14:26 <Oxf13> I'd lean toward opening for update as soon as we enter "RC" phase
18:14:42 <Oxf13> once we get into RC, I only want to tag things that fix problems found in the RC
18:14:51 <rdieter> Oxf13:  +1, I was thinking that too
18:16:00 <Oxf13> and division of testers isn't as much of a concern at that point
18:16:09 <notting> as long as we have a plan, i'm less concerned about the details thereof. +1
18:17:04 <Oxf13> #idea Enable submission of and pushing of Fedora 12 updates when Fedora 12 enters RC phase
18:17:08 <Oxf13> +1
18:17:26 <Oxf13> (I'll take notting's previous +1 into account)
18:18:08 <dgilmore> +1
18:18:26 <Oxf13> jwb: spot rdieter wwoods lmacken ?
18:18:47 <jwb> enabling is fine
18:19:10 <jwb> i probably won't do a push until at least RC2 or 3 though
18:19:10 <spot> sure, why not.
18:19:10 <jwb> ;)
18:19:10 <spot> +1
18:19:25 <Oxf13> actually some chatter in #fedora-devel reminds me of something
18:19:36 <Oxf13> We should have at least a day or 3 in order to fix any "ZOMG signed upates kills packagekit" type bugs
18:19:37 <rdieter> +1 (for posterity, was away for a bit)
18:19:46 <Oxf13> so having actual update repos before the RC is gold will help there.
18:20:05 <jwb> Oxf13, mumble.  ok
18:20:14 <jwb> Oxf13, btw, still need access to the F12 key
18:20:19 <Oxf13> craps
18:20:21 <skvidal> jwb: okay - deltarpm sure doesn't look new enough at all on releng2 - so that's going to need some love
18:20:27 <wwoods> Oxf13: yeah I was about to mention that
18:20:31 <wwoods> heh
18:20:34 <Oxf13> #action f13 to provide jwb (and notting?) with F12 key access
18:20:43 <wwoods> the ever-terrifying first round of signed packages
18:20:43 <jwb> skvidal, figured.  also think we need a fixed xz
18:20:44 <skvidal> nod
18:21:12 <wwoods> but otherwise yeah, +1 to enabling submission/push of f12 updates at/just before RC
18:21:54 <skvidal> I can start on rebuilding the f12 versions of deltarpm and xz for rhel5 - out of curiosity - if we build deltarpms up to latest for f12 - do we hose them for F11?
18:22:31 <notting> skvidal: how so?
18:22:50 <Oxf13> #agreed We'll enable updates submission and pushing at RC phase
18:23:01 <skvidal> notting: just making sure the deltarpm on f11 could handle the format we might be handing them from the f12 build
18:23:30 <notting> there were no deltarpm format changes in f12, afaik. just fixing it to handle xz-compressed payloads if they were encountered
18:23:45 <skvidal> notting: this is why I was checking
18:23:52 <jwb> hopefully F12 is the last time we have to worry about this at all
18:24:05 <skvidal> jwb: agreed - hopefully we'll have chroots for this stuff
18:24:18 <jwb> lmacken has it on his TG2 version of bodhi list
18:25:00 <skvidal> ok
18:25:00 <Oxf13> hawt.
18:25:31 <notting> jwb: wait, we're prototyping a new option to make updates pushes add a step and take more time? :)
18:26:05 <Oxf13> notting: you don't get to complain about that, delta boy
18:27:13 <jwb> notting, yes.  at the hope that we can possibly do smart things
18:29:10 <Oxf13> ok, anything else on updates?
18:29:33 <Oxf13> no?  great.
18:29:44 <Oxf13> #topic FUDCon Toronto
18:29:51 <Oxf13> Just a couple things about fudcon toronto
18:30:10 <Oxf13> I'll be there, and I've signed up to work on message bus, autoqa, no frozen rawhide, and SCM replacement.
18:30:48 <Oxf13> while doing some incredibly mindless tasks I came up with some thoughts/plans for no frozen rawhide and next gen SCM that I'm going to put somewhere on teh wiki before fudcon
18:31:06 <Oxf13> but if any of you are going to be there, and want to join me, please do, or if you have other topics you think we should hack on or talk about in a session, please let me know
18:31:09 <notting> i'll be there. i have not signed up to work on anything yet
18:31:20 <dgilmore> Oxf13: ill help with scm and message bus
18:31:33 <skvidal> I'llbe there, wearing a facemask and gloves
18:31:38 <rdieter> I'll be there, not sure how much help I could be
18:31:55 <dgilmore> im also going to work on epel and secondary arch releng, while tehre
18:32:07 <rdieter> note to self, bring baseball, glove.
18:32:08 <Oxf13> cool, sounds like a good set of folks
18:32:16 <Oxf13> ?
18:32:32 <dgilmore> Oxf13: me or rdieter ?
18:32:38 <Oxf13> rdieter:
18:33:09 <rdieter> lame response to skvidal
18:33:25 <skvidal> rdieter: bring purrell
18:33:25 <Oxf13> ah
18:33:35 <jwb> pretty sure i won't be there
18:33:49 <Oxf13> note to self, assign all work items to jwb
18:34:03 <rdieter> hee
18:34:15 <jwb> note to self, realize you don't get paid and laugh manically at Oxf13
18:34:36 <Oxf13> yeah, I get paid to take this abuse, what's your excuse?
18:34:51 * Oxf13 watches the meeting go off the rails
18:34:54 <jwb> i'm a masochist
18:35:01 <Oxf13> #topic Hardware
18:35:21 <Oxf13> We recently got a 'compose-x862' system from mmcgrath.  It's eventually going to replace compose-x86, as it has /lots/ more disk space
18:35:39 <Oxf13> so that I don't have to purge Fedora spin isos in order to have enough disk space to make the live images
18:36:01 <Oxf13> But since it's new, and since it hasn't been used much, I'm only going to use it for Live image creation for F12 RCs
18:36:13 <Oxf13> the Fedora install spin will still be made within chroots on compose-x86
18:36:19 <Oxf13> just to limit chances of things going pear shaped
18:37:23 <Oxf13> that's all I got.
18:37:28 <Oxf13> #topic open floor
18:37:46 <Oxf13> anything from anybody else?  If not, I'll close the meeting in a few minutes
18:39:27 <jwb> f13 updates
18:39:46 <jwb> or really, how they play into NFR
18:39:59 <jwb> but that can wait i guess
18:41:10 <Oxf13> jwb: briefly, my plan for that is when we branch F13 away from rawhide, we'll immediately create an "updates-testing" like repo for F13
18:41:43 <Oxf13> anybody who wants to do a build for F13 will have to use bodhi and put it into an updates-testing repo.  Karma and/or the maintainer can promote it from testing to stable via bodhi
18:42:00 <Oxf13> when it goes "stable" it may just get tagged for f13, and the nightly compose will pick it up
18:42:01 <notting> and/or autoqa?
18:42:15 <Oxf13> notting: yeah, sorry, autoqa + releng/qa for crit path items play in there too
18:42:22 <jwb> how is that updates-testing repo going to get mashed?
18:42:36 <Oxf13> jwb: we could either do it nightly, or as part of the rest of the updates pushes
18:42:49 <jwb> i think it'd have to be nightly
18:42:50 <Oxf13> if we had autosigning going, nightly would make sense, or even multiple times during a day
18:43:01 <jwb> right, which was my next question
18:43:25 <Oxf13> we should probably brainstorm a bit on autosigning :/
18:43:36 <Oxf13> maybe not in today's meeting, but in general
18:43:43 <jwb> yeah
18:44:31 <Oxf13> and just like this release, when we enter RC stage, promotion to "stable" doesn't mean tag for f13, it means push to updates/
18:45:54 <Oxf13> jwb: does that answer some of your question?
18:46:24 <jwb> think so.  just want it kept in mind during the initial part of F13 and while TG2 bodhi is being worked on
18:46:34 * jwb points lmacken to ^
18:47:48 <Oxf13> kk
18:47:59 <Oxf13> alright, lets wrap this thing up, thanks all for coming!
18:48:02 <Oxf13> #endmeeting