14:06:30 <rdieter> #startmeeting KDE SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-10-27 14:06:30 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 27 14:06:30 2009 UTC. The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:06:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:06:36 <rdieter> #topic roll call 14:06:42 <rdieter> who's present today? 14:06:54 * mefoster raises hand ... 14:07:03 <rdieter> SMParrish, than: ping 14:07:18 * SMParrish here 14:08:35 <rdieter> mefoster: hi 14:09:33 <rdieter> well, let's get started a bit slowly, 14:09:33 * jreznik is here, sorry I'm late, dst changes 14:09:40 <rdieter> #topic agenda 14:09:46 <rdieter> currently, we have, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-10-27#Agenda 14:09:59 <rdieter> any other agenda items to consider today? 14:10:17 <mefoster> We could talk about the sesame/soprano thing ... 14:10:31 <rdieter> mefoster: ok, thanks, I'll append that 14:13:57 <rdieter> [09:13] <rdieter> ok, let's move on then 14:13:59 <rdieter> [09:13] <rdieter> #topic Fedora 12 artwork 14:14:02 <rdieter> meh 14:14:05 <rdieter> #topic Fedora 12 artwork 14:14:09 <rdieter> jreznik: ? 14:14:15 <jreznik> ok, news - http://rezza.hofyland.cz/fedora/artwork/f12/constantine-ksplash-rain-80.png 14:14:26 <jreznik> I called it Constantine Smile theme 14:14:28 <ltinkl> neat 14:14:46 <rdieter> that's very different than before alright 14:14:46 <jreznik> it's already in our SVN 14:14:49 <rdieter> cool 14:14:53 <Sho_> there are some odd glitches on that pic 14:15:01 <Sho_> around the grey circles 14:15:10 <jreznik> I know 14:15:16 <jreznik> I have to fix it 14:15:28 <jreznik> I hope it's one of final wallpapers 14:15:35 <rdieter> it's not final... yet? 14:15:59 <jreznik> actually I don't know 14:16:00 <rdieter> well, it's going to happen today sometime, anyway 14:16:07 <jreznik> I hope 14:16:18 <rdieter> we can ping the #fedora-design folks, today was the deadline set by FESCo 14:16:21 <ltinkl> when was the feature and artwork freeze supposed to happen? :) 14:16:30 <jreznik> and from iteration 60 to 80 there are only few changes 14:16:38 <Sho_> aside from the glitches it's fine 14:16:47 <rdieter> the freeze was long past, but the design folks asked for an exception 14:17:12 <jreznik> rdieter: after we complained... 14:17:40 <ltinkl> they ask for exceptions every release 14:17:55 <jreznik> now I have to do something with KDM theme, I can do it today I hope - similar to default Air 14:18:34 <rdieter> jreznik: thanks for the update, I can help out too after meeting (and find out about wallpaper status from the design team) 14:18:55 <jreznik> rdieter: this is latest one from artwork mailing list 14:18:59 <rdieter> cool 14:19:02 <rdieter> for posterity 14:19:10 <rdieter> #link http://rezza.hofyland.cz/fedora/artwork/f12/constantine-ksplash-rain-80.png 14:19:18 <rdieter> #topic eigen2 status 14:20:02 <rdieter> a quick update, per last week's meeting, I reverted to eigen 2.0.6 for F-12, and rebuilt dependent pkgs, all tagged. 14:20:22 <rdieter> anything else here? 14:21:34 <rdieter> ok... :) 14:21:39 <rdieter> #topic qt-4.5.3: updates, F-12 14:22:47 <rdieter> how do we feel about qt-4.5.3 currently in updates-testing? and how to handle F-12 (release in 0-day updates-testing or include in F-12 final)? 14:23:08 <rdieter> seems to be a couple of minor'ish outstanding issues 14:23:36 <rdieter> who's currently using 4.5.3, and how's it working for you? 14:24:18 * rdieter is, on f12 14:24:27 <mefoster> I have 4.5.3 and haven't noticed anything, but I don't know what I should be noticing 14:24:30 <SMParrish> I'm having no issues so far 14:24:44 <ltinkl> no issues either 14:25:12 <rdieter> 2 known issues: qt-4.5.3 + opera's qt4 build = a bit of flakiness, and 3star echo mode causes auth dialogs to pause,freeze 14:25:55 <rdieter> regarding F-12, I'm of a mind to get it in earlier rather than later, for more testing, feedback 14:26:25 <SMParrish> I would prefer it be in F12-final so to get into more hands faster 14:27:02 <rdieter> ok, let's lean towards getting it into updates and f12-final, but I'd like to hear from than first 14:27:40 <rdieter> #info: leaning towards getting qt-4.5.3 into updates and f12-final asap, awaiting feedback from than 14:27:54 <rdieter> #topic soprano status: sesame, virtuoso 14:28:03 <nucleo> but what to do with opera issue? 14:28:27 <rdieter> nucleo: not much we can do, that's really between opera and nokia/qt 14:29:23 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't give a darn about Opera, but the 3 stars issue is IMHO a blocker. 14:29:24 <nucleo> may be it is possible wait some time when this issue whould be fixed? 14:29:29 <rdieter> nucleo: I'm very much against holding the update hostage due to unknown bugs from some closed-source application 14:29:43 <Kevin_Kofler> Password dialogs crashing with an option which appears to be quite commonly used = big problem. 14:29:49 <ltinkl> nucleo, rdieter: opera and qt are in the same building, I'm sure they will handle this :) 14:30:03 <rdieter> ltinkl: interesting. :) 14:30:26 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: ok, we can hash out options after meeting 14:30:41 <rdieter> mefoster: soprano/sesame status ? 14:30:45 <ltinkl> Kevin_Kofler: what is the 3 star prob? 14:30:58 <mefoster> Regarding the soprano-sesame backend: my initial investigations came up with this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaryEllenFoster/SopranoSesame 14:31:06 <mefoster> It's not actually as bad as it looks ... 14:31:16 <rdieter> ok, we're not in a hurry, let's back up and finish discussing qt (sorry mefoster, hold a sec) 14:31:30 <mefoster> rdieter: holding ... 14:31:51 <rdieter> ltinkl: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=211250 14:31:55 <buggbot> Bug 211250: normal, NOR, ---, kdelibs-bugs kde org, NEW, Password dialogs get stuck 14:31:57 <Kevin_Kofler> ltinkl: If you use the option to echo passwords with 3 stars, the password KLineEdits crash. 14:32:14 <Kevin_Kofler> With 4.5.3 and 4.6 beta, but not 100% reproducibly. 14:32:22 <Kevin_Kofler> With 4.5.2, it works. 14:33:06 <ltinkl> Kevin_Kofler: didn't KPasswordLineEdit(?) change as well? 14:33:18 <ltinkl> just to know we are not hunting the wrong bug 14:33:37 <Kevin_Kofler> The relevant code in KLineEdit (there's no separate class for passwords) didn't change on the 4.3 branch. 14:33:39 <rdieter> ltinkl: also seen on debian, archlinux, maybe you can poke at it, or some find some kde-ninja's to do so too? 14:34:00 <ltinkl> rdieter: ok, I'll look into it 14:34:03 <Kevin_Kofler> And downgrading Qt while keeping KDE at 4.3.2 is reported to "fix" it. 14:34:30 <rdieter> cool, we'll continue to consider that a blocker, until further notice 14:34:33 * thomasj again very late, sorry, work 14:34:38 <Kevin_Kofler> The relevant code is a hack in klineedit.cpp, searching for threestars will find it. 14:34:49 <Kevin_Kofler> thomasj: Don't worry, I was also late today. ^^ 14:35:03 <ltinkl> Kevin_Kofler: I still think the fix would be in KLineEdit, not in Qt 14:35:18 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, the hack is fairly straightforward. 14:35:22 <Kevin_Kofler> We need to know why it breaks. 14:35:25 <Kevin_Kofler> Then we know what to fix. 14:35:51 <Kevin_Kofler> It's some sort of race condition or event-based pseudo race condition. 14:36:01 * rdieter noticed notting just tagged qt-4.5.3 for dist-f12 14:36:51 <rdieter> just as well 14:36:53 <rdieter> move on now? 14:37:15 <Kevin_Kofler> OK, move on. 14:37:21 <rdieter> [09:31] <mefoster> Regarding the soprano-sesame backend: my initial investigations came up with this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaryEllenFoster/SopranoSesame 14:37:22 <rdieter> [09:31] <mefoster> It's not actually as bad as it looks ... 14:37:27 <rdieter> mefoster: your floor 14:37:32 <Kevin_Kofler> That's "not bad"? 14:37:39 <mefoster> Yes 14:37:45 <Kevin_Kofler> It looks as bad as SAGE to me... 14:37:59 <mefoster> It should be able to build it without maven, in which case all of the packages in the top two categories are fine 14:38:11 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, I wish you good luck. 14:38:12 <mefoster> There's a bunch of jpackage packages which should be straightforward to import 14:38:17 <Kevin_Kofler> I still think Virtuoso is the way to go. 14:38:45 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: ideally, we'll have both (eventually) 14:38:47 <mefoster> Creating a new package for a small Java library amounts essentially to cut and paste 14:39:09 <mefoster> I'll try to get the jpackage things in next (already done one) 14:39:14 * rdieter likes the sound of that 14:39:31 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: What for? To have another series of meetings wasted arguing over which one should be the default like for Phonon? ^^ 14:39:50 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: we'll use whatever upstream uses by default 14:40:01 <mefoster> If continue with this it would be nice to know that it'll be used somehow :) 14:40:05 <Kevin_Kofler> (IMHO, Virtuoso should definitely be the default. We don't have room for all that Java stack on the live image.) 14:40:48 <rdieter> we'll discuss virtuoso in a minute. :) 14:41:28 <Kevin_Kofler> soprano-sesame2 is definitely something we can ship if you manage to get it packaged properly. :-) 14:41:31 <mefoster> akurtakov has said he's willing to do some reviews for me 14:41:32 <rdieter> mefoster: in the least, it'll be valuable to offer as a short term solution, as well as providing a proper upgrade path when/if we do use virtuoso 14:41:47 <Kevin_Kofler> I just don't think it's a good idea to ship by default. 14:42:18 <mefoster> I'll keep that wiki page up to date with thecurrent status (I may reformat it to make it clearer what's going on) 14:42:20 <rdieter> mefoster: cool, any estimate on time-frame ? a week, a month? 14:42:21 <killefiz> mefoster: can you let the list know when there is anything that needs to be reviewed? 14:42:23 <Kevin_Kofler> Also because of RAM efficiency concerns (Java stuff, and Sesame2 in particular, eats a lot of RAM). 14:42:54 <mefoster> I'd say a month is realistic ... (may be famous last words) 14:43:13 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: from feedback I've seen, the runtime footprint of virtuoso vs sesame2 is approx the same 14:43:26 <mefoster> It mostly boils down to getting a bunch of Java packages reviewed or, in some cases, updated 14:43:32 <Kevin_Kofler> I think we can have Virtuoso shipping in less than that (but I'm the kind of person who doesn't have qualms about shipping alpha stuff, so maybe don't listen to me ;-) ). 14:43:34 <rdieter> I think virutoso may win by a small margin 14:43:49 <rdieter> mefoster: cool, thanks 14:44:17 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: it's looking like getting nepomuk/virtuoso working properly will have to wait for kde-4.4 14:44:38 <Kevin_Kofler> I can backport required kdelibs and kdebase* changes... 14:44:48 <Kevin_Kofler> But if we wait for stable stuff, we'll have to wait for 4.4 indeed. 14:44:57 <Kevin_Kofler> So it might be possible to get Sesame2 in faster. 14:45:17 <Kevin_Kofler> (if mefoster is motivated enough and if she finds reviewers in reasonable time) 14:45:21 <mefoster> So I'll concentrate first on pushing the jpackage-only dependencies through the review process 14:45:58 <mefoster> Will try to get them all processed by the end of the week 14:46:07 <mefoster> (as in, review bugs opened) 14:47:14 <rdieter> awesome. 14:47:29 <rdieter> #topic open discussion 14:47:34 <rdieter> anything else for today? 14:47:54 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: Virtuoso status? 14:48:00 <Kevin_Kofler> Anything new? 14:48:03 <rdieter> oh, right 14:48:23 <rdieter> requisite virtuoso-opensource-5.0.12 pkgs are built as updates, in f12 14:48:39 <Kevin_Kofler> Good. 14:48:50 <Kevin_Kofler> So that leaves Soprano, and possibly kde* patches? 14:48:54 <rdieter> soprano-2.3.65 is built in devel/ branch, with virtuoso support, avail in kde-unstable repos too 14:48:56 <mefoster> (p.s. -- Kevin_Kofler -- a lot of those jar files are build dependencies, not runtime dependencies) 14:49:22 <Kevin_Kofler> There was some patch on TrĂ¼g's blog to fix an issue with Virtuoso itself, is that one already in the 5.0.12 release? 14:50:23 <rdieter> in my limited testing, tagging files seems to work. I'm still at a loss for what the strigi indexer is for exactly, or how to use or take advantage of it (maybe it's just not working, dunno) 14:50:41 <rdieter> but I do see abrt crashes regularly from nepomuk too 14:51:07 <Kevin_Kofler> http://trueg.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/and-yet-another-post-about-virtuoso/ 14:51:19 <Kevin_Kofler> Can you please check that the 5.0.12 release has this fix already? 14:51:36 <Kevin_Kofler> (From the comments, looks like it does.) 14:51:37 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: it does 14:52:01 <Kevin_Kofler> OK, great. 14:52:13 <Kevin_Kofler> Re backtraces, did you report them upstream yet? 14:52:23 <svahl> sry for beeing late. missed the time change (again) 14:52:48 <Kevin_Kofler> Re strigi, not sure. 14:52:49 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: no (kinda waiting on kde-4.4 alpha/beta before getting hardcore about it) 14:53:05 <Kevin_Kofler> I think the quicker we get things reported, the better. 14:53:20 <rdieter> we've got some incremental improvement over the status quo, but nothing seriously considering shipping yet 14:53:24 <Kevin_Kofler> Of course I also have a hidden agenda of wanting to ship that Virtuoso stuff ASAP (like "F12 0-day update" soon ;-) ). 14:54:22 * rdieter is shocked and appalled. :) 14:54:49 <rdieter> before we run out of time, svahl, do you have anything worthy of mention ? 14:55:21 <rdieter> and fyi, yesterday, added kcm-gtk to kde-desktop (default) comps, removed gtk-qt-engine 14:55:33 <svahl> not really. no known bugs of the beta live images (filed against fedora livecd kde) 14:55:47 <svahl> ok, thx 14:56:09 <rdieter> svahl: it's ~90k, hopefully doesn't hurt us space-wise 14:57:04 <nucleo> rdieter: did you see that kcm-gtk didn't work when it installed on LiveCD? 14:57:12 <svahl> don't think so, gtk-qt-enginge was also quite small 14:57:24 <rdieter> nucleo: needs more testing, true 14:57:43 <rdieter> seems to work for some, not others 14:57:59 <Kevin_Kofler> The problem is that it writes into a .gtkrc-2.0-kde4 file which is not registered in the GTK2_RC_FILES search path. 14:58:16 <Kevin_Kofler> Maybe it fights with kdebase-workspace over that environment variable? 14:58:28 <Kevin_Kofler> kdebase-workspace adds its own .kde/share/config/gtkrc-2.0 to that. 14:58:31 <nucleo> gtk-qt-engine writes in .gtkrc-2.0-kde4 too 14:58:47 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: maybe, we need to look at that, make it integrate better somehow 14:59:14 <rdieter> kcm-gtk's origins came form gtk-qt-engine originally 14:59:48 <rdieter> then maybe even use qtcurve-gtk2, to make Sho_ happy 14:59:54 <Sho_> :) 15:00:09 <Kevin_Kofler> For Strigi with Nepomuk: you should get your files indexed if they're in the right directory, then nepomuksearch:/keyword for some keyword which appears in one of your files should find that file. 15:00:10 <rdieter> err, make all fedora-kde users happy. 15:00:13 <Sho_> both opensuse and kubuntu do it now 15:00:19 <nucleo> but gtk-qt-engine creates ~/.kde/env/gtk-qt-engine.rc.sh 15:00:23 <Kevin_Kofler> If it doesn't, it's a bug and should be reported upstream (like the crashes). 15:00:26 <Sho_> not that i would normaly use kubuntu as an example about what to do 15:00:38 <Sho_> s/about/of/ 15:01:10 <rdieter> nucleo: that's less than ideal, as it requires a logout/login on first use 15:01:36 <Kevin_Kofler> I think there's no better way. 15:01:42 <Kevin_Kofler> You can't inject things into the toplevel environment. 15:01:53 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: can't share use of .kde/share/config/gtkrc-2.0 somehow ? 15:02:09 <Kevin_Kofler> ksmserver would have to support some setEnv D-Bus call, I know the GNOME equivalent supports that now, but ksmserver doesn't AFAIK. 15:02:49 <rdieter> well, barring details, it warrants some love and attention 15:02:57 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, that file is written at each session startup by code in kdebase-workspace. 15:03:08 <Kevin_Kofler> And I think also on color setting changes. 15:03:35 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't think clobbering it is a good idea. 15:03:51 <Kevin_Kofler> What I could do is hack the code which sets GTK2_RC_FILES to include the kcm-gtk one. 15:03:58 <Kevin_Kofler> It'll just be ignored if it's not there. 15:04:07 <rdieter> sounds better to me, yeah, something like that 15:04:24 * mefoster has to leave soon to reboot her computer to Windows to give a demo :( 15:04:29 <rdieter> well, looks like we're out of time 15:04:36 <rdieter> mefoster: thanks, enjoy (I think) 15:04:42 <XulWork> hey guys, can we package k3b alpha, because old k3b doesnt work with f11 transcode 15:05:05 <rdieter> XulWork: kde-unstable repo @ kde-redhat.sourceforge.net 15:05:14 <Sho_> fwiw: very bad experience with k3b alpha here 15:05:23 <Sho_> couldn't burn an iso the other day 15:05:27 <XulWork> hrm 15:05:29 <Kevin_Kofler> We've already had K3b alpha in F12, we reverted it. 15:05:32 <rdieter> XulWork: the transcode issue is known, I just need to get off my arse, and patch it (but I think k3b alpha has the same problemj) 15:05:52 <Kevin_Kofler> Pushing it as an F11 update is definitely a bad idea. 15:06:01 <Kevin_Kofler> Patching the actual bug is better. 15:06:12 <XulWork> ya if you can patch it 15:06:24 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm sure it can be fixed. 15:06:27 <XulWork> k 15:06:45 <rdieter> XulWork: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=524348 15:06:47 <buggbot> Bug 524348: medium, low, ---, rrakus, ASSIGNED, transcode --progress_rate 0 15:07:22 <rdieter> alright, let's wrap up the meeting, thanks everyone 15:07:25 <rdieter> #endmeeting