20:03:19 <poelcat> #startmeeting Fedora 12 Release Readiness Meeting
20:03:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov 11 20:03:19 2009 UTC.  The chair is poelcat. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:03:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:03:36 <poelcat> who is here?
20:03:39 * ricky 
20:03:51 * rbergeron is here for mchua / marketing
20:04:08 * glezos is here
20:04:17 * mmcgrath is
20:04:37 * skvidal is here
20:04:51 * jlaska 
20:05:01 <poelcat> hi everyone!
20:05:06 <poelcat> Oxf13: pingaling
20:05:24 <poelcat> glezos: can you cover for translation?
20:05:37 <glezos> poelcat: yes.
20:05:38 <poelcat> oops, i see you already responded
20:05:47 <Oxf13> oh, yeah that's now isn't it.
20:06:24 <poelcat> let's get started
20:06:49 <smooge> here
20:06:50 <poelcat> #info we're meeting today to cross-coordinate between teams to make sure we're ready for release day on 2009-11-17
20:07:04 <poelcat> i'll try to keep things moving
20:07:18 <poelcat> so if i move on too quickly let me know :)
20:07:39 <poelcat> i'll call out each team by name to get their status/info/bits to be coordinated
20:07:47 <poelcat> any questions/suggestions before we jump in?
20:08:35 <poelcat> we always start with the the more technical teams so I thought we'd go in the opposite direction this time
20:08:40 <poelcat> #topic web sites
20:08:53 <poelcat> ricky: how are things looking and what should we know?
20:08:58 <ricky> Much appreciated :-)
20:09:20 <ricky> We're pretty good now, thanks to the awsome efforts of sijis, hiemanshu, and others
20:09:37 <ricky> Yesterday, I emailed the art team to get the big banner, and I also see that the small release banner is ready
20:10:32 <ricky> One last issue that came up is that some docs index pages went missing recently (like http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/), and we'll  need to get index pages or redirects up for those - I just emailed docs list about that
20:11:01 <poelcat> ricky: excellent; anything else?
20:11:15 <poelcat> anyone have issues they need to discuss w/ the web team?
20:11:25 <mmcgrath> ricky: yeah lets break the freeze to fix that.
20:11:37 <ricky> One infrastructure-related thing - right now, spins.fp.o assumes that all spin torrent files live under http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/spins/
20:11:57 <ricky> But that's not true for the KDE spin - thought I'd mention that while Oxf13 and skvidal are around
20:12:08 <skvidal> ricky: ?
20:12:13 <skvidal> it doesn't live in there?
20:12:49 <ricky> I think right now, the KDE torrents are in /torrents/ instead of /spins/ (or at least they were for the betas and F11)
20:12:56 <skvidal> ah , I see
20:13:20 <skvidal> I don't know why kde should not be in the spins subdir
20:13:27 <skvidal> Oxf13: you have any problems chucking it there?
20:13:53 <Oxf13> well, KDE and the Desktop Live image are not "Spins"
20:14:04 <skvidal> ah, well there you go
20:14:07 <skvidal> Oxf13: thanks
20:14:17 <glezos> ricky: about the string: do we have the string in question in an older page? Maybe we could pull it from there or sth.
20:14:27 <Oxf13> they're the official live mages we publish, and we put them on the mirror too in the Live/ directory
20:14:39 <ricky> Hmm, but the plan is still for the KDE spin to be downloadable at spins.fp.o - should we just hardcode that difference in somewhere then?
20:14:56 <glezos> ricky: skip that -- we an talk it together. No need to keep all people busy for this, otherwise the meeting will take ages.
20:15:09 <ricky> glezos: If we did a string freeze break, we'd replace links to http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/ with http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/language-code/html, and make that a new translatable string
20:15:15 <ricky> Yeah, sure thing
20:15:25 <ricky> I was thinking of a redirect to the docs.fp.o index though
20:15:45 <Oxf13> ricky: I'm really not sure given the new web pages for spins
20:15:56 <Oxf13> ricky: it would be a demotion to put KDE on spins.fp.o as opposed to torrent.fp.o
20:16:36 * ricky isn't sure what the board said about that WRT to the spins.fp.o requirements, but I got the impression that the KDE spin would be downloadable there and also have its own page where the KDE team could put its own blurbs and screenshots and stuff
20:16:57 <mmcgrath> oof, it's pretty late to be having this discussion :(
20:17:05 <ricky> mizmo: Does that sound right to you?
20:18:16 * poelcat wonders if we can close on this topic outside of this meeting
20:18:35 <skvidal> how about this
20:18:39 <skvidal> we symlink it to both places
20:18:41 <skvidal> on torrent
20:18:46 <skvidal> and let kde show up on torrent AND on spins
20:18:57 <skvidal> I can take it as an action item to make sure of that
20:19:03 <ricky> Fine with me, as long as the link works somehow :-)
20:19:17 <skvidal> Oxf13: that okay w/you?
20:19:29 <poelcat> #action skvidal to setup symlinks for kde to show up on torrent AND on spins
20:19:30 <Oxf13> fine wit me
20:19:34 <Oxf13> fine with me.
20:19:36 <skvidal> okay.
20:19:38 <skvidal> great
20:19:44 <ricky> Note that http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora-kde is totally not going away for the F12 website
20:19:58 <ricky> It'll just be obtainable at another place too for the time being
20:20:08 <poelcat> we need to move on
20:20:14 <ricky> Yup, sorry about that
20:20:17 <skvidal> ricky: all I'm going to do is symlink the .torrent files, that's it
20:20:21 <poelcat> #topic translation update
20:20:31 <poelcat> glezos: talk to us
20:20:56 <glezos> Not many things from L10n, AFAICT
20:21:19 <glezos> Websites are being translated, and Docs are continuing for the zero-date release
20:21:37 <glezos> Software have long been frozen, which is the important bits.
20:21:45 <poelcat> glezos: great, sounds like things are going soothly
20:21:48 <glezos> yup.
20:21:58 <poelcat> any questions for the translation team from others?
20:22:01 <glezos> Unless someone has anything else from L10n, I'm EOF.
20:23:11 <poelcat> #topic marketing update
20:23:24 <poelcat> rbergeron: how are things going?
20:23:35 <rbergeron> one-page release notes are done. ready to go to design for layout
20:23:39 <rbergeron> (per mchua)
20:24:04 <rbergeron> in-depth feature profiles are 2/3 done and out on red hat's press blog, the third (virtualization) is just about wrapped up.
20:24:26 <rbergeron> screenshots are "done", and by done i mean the important stuff is in the can, but is still open for anyone who feels inspired to make more.
20:24:51 * rbergeron is not sure if there is anything else to cover here, but that's what mchua sent me with so feel free to ask about anything else :)
20:25:19 <poelcat> anyone have questions for rbergeron?
20:26:11 <poelcat> rbergeron: thanks
20:26:15 <rbergeron> :)
20:26:20 <poelcat> #topic Release Engineering
20:26:24 <poelcat> Oxf13: how's the bits?
20:26:39 <Oxf13> bits are good, still assembling everything
20:26:47 <Oxf13> Hopefully I can have the trees staged today
20:27:21 <poelcat> Oxf13: cool, that's a day early! have we dont that before?
20:27:24 <smooge> updates seem to be working. I got told of updates just now
20:28:01 <Oxf13> poelcat: not for a while.
20:28:57 * mizmo is here now
20:28:59 <poelcat> Oxf13: anything else?
20:29:54 <poelcat> Oxf13: thanks
20:29:59 <poelcat> #topic Design
20:30:03 <Oxf13> there is one known booboo with the fedora-release package
20:30:29 <poelcat> Oxf13: go ahead
20:30:41 <Oxf13> teh GPG key path for updates-testing is wrong
20:30:53 <Oxf13> so if users enable updates-testing, and don't already have the key imported, they'll get an error
20:31:08 <Oxf13> there is a fedora-release update pending to go into stable to correct this
20:31:17 <notting> that's the same key that's used for final and updates, right?
20:31:39 <skvidal> notting: but yum imports them per-repo - for repository signatures
20:31:58 <jwb> Oxf13, what was it listed as?
20:32:31 <Oxf13> gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-test-$basearch
20:32:35 <Oxf13> as opposed to:
20:32:44 <Oxf13> gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-$basearch
20:33:30 <poelcat> Oxf13: do we need to announce or release not this somwhere?
20:33:47 <poelcat> or will update take care of it seamlessly?
20:34:01 * adamw , who is not here, takes a note to stick it in commonbugs
20:34:01 <Oxf13> I think we should knownissues it
20:34:03 <skvidal> actually - how is fedora-releae fixing this?
20:34:11 <Oxf13> but yes, an update to things in stable updates will fix it
20:34:14 <skvidal> is it adding the file or is it changing the config?
20:34:19 <Oxf13> skvidal: changing the config
20:34:28 <skvidal> which will only work if their config has not changed, right?
20:34:32 <Oxf13> right
20:34:40 <skvidal> then definitely knownissues it
20:34:43 <adamw> and if they update before adding updates-testing repo
20:34:47 <skvidal> with an explanation of rpmsave/rpmnew files
20:35:07 <Oxf13> adamw: they have to A) enable updates-testing, and B) not already have the key imported IIRC
20:35:24 <adamw> k
20:35:27 * poelcat would prefer not to get into all the technical details of how to fix it in this meeting, but instead action key people to cover later
20:36:02 * adamw continues not being here
20:36:12 <poelcat> who is going to "known issue" this and where?
20:36:40 <jlaska> just add keyword:CommonBugs ... and it'll fall on our plates to document
20:36:50 <poelcat> Oxf13: is there a bug #?
20:36:56 <Oxf13> there is no bug number yet
20:37:14 <adamw> i have it on my list.
20:37:42 <poelcat> #action adamw will file bug for updates-testing key problem and add CommonBugs keyword
20:37:55 <poelcat> anything else from releng or questions to releng ?
20:38:52 <Oxf13> I don't think I have anything.
20:39:14 <poelcat> Oxf13: thanks
20:39:27 <poelcat> mizmo: how are things in Design?
20:39:43 <mizmo> poelcat: i think we're in good shape, i dont think there's any major concerns
20:39:47 <mizmo> well
20:39:52 <mizmo> one thing im a bit worried about is getting spins.fpo ready
20:40:07 <mizmo> and get.fpo ready
20:40:08 <poelcat> mizmo: we were discussing some of that earlier
20:40:15 <mizmo> i dont know if the html for get.fpo has really been started yet
20:40:21 <mizmo> i *think* it has
20:40:52 <ricky> The complete get.fp.o redesign isn't meant to happen with the f12 release though - we agreed to target just spins.fp.o in an earlier meeting
20:41:02 <mizmo> ricky: oh i didnt recall that
20:41:15 <ricky> (get.fp.o got lumped together with the big skin change too)
20:41:15 <mizmo> ricky: i thought the template is going to stay the same but the meat of the page is going to change
20:41:30 <mizmo> eg, the new mockups implemented in the new template
20:41:41 <mizmo> er
20:41:46 <mizmo> the new mockups implemented in the old/current template
20:42:35 <ricky> Oops, sorry about the mixup then.  get-fedora has been pretty much frozen since the string freeze a few weeks back
20:42:42 <mizmo> :(
20:43:32 <ricky> The thought was that the new get.fp.o depended on spins.fp.o, so we had to choose that first :-(
20:44:48 <poelcat> what do we need to decide or figure out here today?
20:45:17 <mizmo> i guess we're dropping get.fpo's redesign
20:45:20 <mizmo> there isnt much choice
20:46:16 <poelcat> mizmo: okay, anything else to discuss from a design perspective?
20:46:25 <mizmo> i dont think so
20:46:27 <rbergeron> mizmo: the one-page release notes are ready to go to design for layout, per mchua.
20:46:36 <mizmo> rbergeron: to pdf?
20:47:27 <rbergeron> "to layout" ... i can check with her.
20:47:32 <rbergeron> just delivering verbatims here :)
20:47:32 <mizmo> rbergeron: okay thanks
20:47:40 <mizmo> i think she probably meant pdf format
20:47:42 <rbergeron> i'l follow up and let you know.
20:47:51 <rbergeron> i think that is likely
20:48:52 <poelcat> #topic Quality update
20:49:01 <poelcat> jlaska: what do we need to know?
20:49:10 <jlaska> Hey folks .. I'm just planning to cut'n'paste the highlights here for meetbot
20:49:20 <jlaska> #info Installation testing - Liam announced completion of the F-12-RC4 install matrix and provided a summary at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-November/msg00585.html
20:49:26 <jlaska> #info Installation testing - Completed test matrix available for review https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_12_RC4_Install
20:50:01 <jlaska> This marks the first release with several regular install checkpoints for each major milestone (Alpha, Beta, RC)
20:50:43 <jlaska> I don't see any reason to be changing this for F-13 as it seems to have been fairly successful
20:50:49 <jlaska> next up ...
20:50:53 <jlaska> #info Common_F12_Bugs - Issues not fixed in F-12-RC4 are being be documented at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F12_bugs.  The procedure for adding or requesting additions is documented on that page (see section 'My_bug_is_not_listed')
20:51:05 <jlaska> #info Common_F12_Bugs - The current list of bugs awaiting documentation is http://tinyurl.com/yldrrtu
20:51:32 <jlaska> Much to adamw's dismay ... I've been adding the CommonBugs keyword a bit too freely for issues that remain
20:52:00 <jlaska> So we'll be spending a fair bit of cycles working down that list of ~ 23 bugs that need to outlined for the Common_F12_Bugs wiki
20:52:11 <jlaska> next up ...
20:52:14 <jlaska> #info Open Issues - The QA team is tracking several open items.  Most of which are already on the Common_F12_bugs list.  Forum and mailing-list test feedback continues to roll in with a lot of heavy lifting from Adamw
20:52:42 <jlaska> I'd direct folks to the tinyurl above for the heavy hitters we are tracking
20:53:09 <jlaska> I've got a list of 6-7 issues that might be worth listing here briefly
20:53:13 <jlaska> unless there are objections
20:53:30 <jlaska> I don't plan to talk about or triage the issues ... but just make sure folks have a head up
20:53:59 <jlaska> Highlights on the list include (provided by adamw): * #533545 - Preupgrade to F12 destroys grub on /boot RAID * #530541 - Preupgrade free space check on /boot not thorough enough * #534066 - Anaconda does not assign correct root partition to boot windows * #533350 - Several issues related to file system shrink during install
20:54:04 <jlaska> * #533620 - [propritary nVidia driver] KDE Launcher causes desktop to freezer for ~10 seconds * #530896 - Password entry of an encrypted volume is broken in text mode
20:54:07 <jlaska> 
20:54:11 <jlaska> okay, none of that pasted well :(
20:54:28 <jlaska> the summary from that is there are several preupgrade issues that are proving to be a challenge to solve cleanly
20:54:41 <jlaska> several RAID related issues have surfaced as well
20:55:00 <skvidal> so most of the issues are /boot size from what I've seen
20:55:08 <jlaska> skvidal: seems to be yeah
20:55:22 <jlaska> wwoods has been debugging the preupgrade issues and hopes to have an updated package available to help mitigate the problems
20:55:46 <jlaska> but there's just not a lot of room to play with in /boot ... so Common_F12_Bugs will have additional tips for the advanced user to workaround the problems
20:56:09 <jlaska> And the last point from QA is about the future ...
20:56:16 <skvidal> jlaska: and common bugs maybe could include a comment like: If your /boot has less than 100m FREE then you shouldn't even bother to run preupgrade
20:56:25 <jlaska> skvidal: *exactly*
20:56:26 <jlaska> #info F-13 Test Days - Planning for upcoming test days will begin soon.  To suggest a topic ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days/Create
20:56:32 <wwoods> the problem is that preupgrade is designed for non-technical users, but it seems that the majority of users are going to run out of space on /boot
20:56:46 <wwoods> so advice for technical users leaves the non-technical ones kinda high and dry
20:57:02 <skvidal> wwoods: are you just doing a disk space test on /boot and exiting?
20:57:21 <skvidal> is that the mitigation plan?
20:57:27 <wwoods> the other choice is: script dangerous stuff like running tune2fs -r0 /dev/$BOOTDEV or removing old kernel packages.
20:57:33 <wwoods> I'm not keen on either option.
20:57:52 <skvidal> wwoods: I like 'you have insufficient space on /boot to do this, please upgrade via anaconda'
20:57:53 <wwoods> skvidal: disk space test on /boot, two available buttons are [check again] and [quit]
20:57:54 <skvidal> it fails EARLY
20:58:05 <skvidal> it fails cleanly and it does it before we download any other crap
20:58:09 <poelcat> jlaska: anything else?
20:58:17 <wwoods> skvidal: let's talk more about that elsewhere
20:58:24 <skvidal> ok
20:58:31 <jlaska> poelcat: that's all I have from QA ... any questions/comments/concerns?
20:58:42 <jlaska> wwoods: skvidal: thanks gents
20:58:45 <mether> is the /boot size in Fedora 12 still 200 MB?
20:58:54 <mether> by default
20:58:56 <wwoods> should be 250MB if memory serves?
20:59:09 <mether> is that sufficient for the purposes of preupgrade?
20:59:17 <poelcat> jlaska: thanks for all data points
20:59:23 <poelcat> #topic Infrastructure
20:59:29 <poelcat> mmcgrath: how are things going?
20:59:38 * poelcat hopes for more than mike's usual one liner ;-)
21:00:00 <mmcgrath> poelcat: pretty good, we have two outstanding issues, one of which is being taken care of right now (why torrent's down)
21:00:04 <mmcgrath> memory issues in that server.
21:00:22 <mmcgrath> the other is disk space on the mirror.  We know we'll make it under the 1T limit we just aren't totally sure how close it'll be.
21:00:42 <mmcgrath> that's a policy limit though, not a technical one.
21:00:45 <mmcgrath> other then that we're all set.
21:01:13 <poelcat> mmcgrath: thanks
21:01:19 <poelcat> any questions for infrastructure?
21:01:59 <jlaska> none here
21:02:06 <poelcat> #topic FESCo
21:02:23 <poelcat> skvidal: i believe you're representing FESCo... anything to add/discuss?
21:02:33 <skvidal> jds2001  did not give me any items to add
21:02:51 <skvidal> afaik, we're clear  - and given the subject matter of the last couple of meetings, we are
21:03:36 <skvidal> anyone else on fesco want to add to that ,you're welcome to - but that's all I have
21:04:30 <poelcat> skvidal: thanks
21:04:44 <poelcat> #topic Amabassaors or Docs?
21:04:55 <poelcat> is there anyone from docs or ambassadors present?
21:05:15 <mether> I can represent I guess. What is the question exactly
21:05:50 <poelcat> mether: what do all the other teams need to know about coordinating release day
21:05:56 <jjmcd> As far as I can tell, DOcs is ok
21:06:00 <mether> I think we are good
21:06:07 <poelcat> mether: or are there certain things you need from other teams
21:06:19 <jjmcd> Ricky asked for a redirect for some broken links but there already is a redirect it doesn't work
21:06:27 <jjmcd> I'm working on fixing that
21:06:42 <ricky> Ah, cool - I can probably drop that change request then, thanks!
21:06:59 <ricky> Let me know if you need a docs sync or anything
21:07:10 <jjmcd> Prolly I will
21:08:17 <poelcat> jjmcd mether thanks
21:08:19 <poelcat> #topic wrap up
21:08:29 <poelcat> any other topics to cover before we end?\
21:09:33 * poelcat will wait 60 seconds and then end meeting
21:10:45 <poelcat> thanks everyone for your time and input!
21:10:47 <poelcat> #endmeeting